Goaltending conundrum

[LeafsInSeven]

I guess I'm in the minority because I don't think the team's goaltending is the problem in Toronto. Of course it could be better but it's the team's horrid commitment to team defence throughout its forward group that is mostly responsible for its lousy defensive record.

I'd be perfectly fine with another season with Reimer and Gustavsson in goal if this team's soft group of forwards got a major overhaul top to bottom. And meanwhile, is there a better scenario for adding goaltending to a young team than the team's AHL goaltender playing great and leading his team to the AHL finals?

I hope Burke resists the desperation move of overpaying for someone else's garbage. I've been a Leafs' fan for a long time and I've seen these flavour of the month desperation moves before. The collective intelligence has decided that goaltending will expedite contention so that's all that is being talked about going into this summer. I remember when all the collective intelligence was talking about was how the 1989 Leafs needed a power play quarterback (Kurvers trade) or the 1996 Leafs needed an injection of passion (Wendel Clark return trade) or the 2005-2006 Leafs needed a starting goalie (Raycroft/Toskala trades).

 

[Tigger]

From my pov, I'd be totally comfortable going with Gustavsson and Reimer/Scrivens with another season of experience/development/change with the team. From Burke's, I dunno, doesn't seem likely.

 

[Wendel's Fist]

The thing that's kind of weird for me is when people talk about Scrivens as if he's going to make a difference. I like the guy and think he will be a good nhl goalie. The thing is, he's in the AHL and is the same age as Jonathon Quick and one year older than Carey Price. He's played 12 NHL games.

It's not like he's an 18 year old that's just learning things. I wouldn't feel too confident with having him as our backup behind Reimer. If that's what we have going in to next year then, it's going to be a long, long year.

 

[Kin]

I guess I'm in the minority because I don't think the team's goaltending is the problem in Toronto. Of course it could be better but it's the team's horrid commitment to team defence throughout its forward group that is mostly responsible for its lousy defensive record.

I think, almost to a person, everyone here has identified the goaltending as a problem rather than the problem. If you look through the GM thread almost everyone's suggestions go well beyond simply adding a goalie.

I'd be perfectly fine with another season with Reimer and Gustavsson in goal if this team's soft group of forwards got a major overhaul top to bottom. And meanwhile, is there a better scenario for adding goaltending to a young team than the team's AHL goaltender playing great and leading his team to the AHL finals?

I don't necessarily disagree with this. I'd be fine with that goaltending arrangement too but that comes with a bit of an asterisk. The Leafs need better goaltending. Whether that comes from someone on the team last year or not that's a pretty simple truth. If one of Reimer/Scrivens/Gus provides that, great. If not then the Leafs will be terrible, get another high pick and when all is said and done that's probably the best alternative to them having a successful season.

Adding a guy like Luongo is the safer option. He's a much better bet to provide better goaltending than the Leafs received last year.

I hope Burke resists the desperation move of overpaying for someone else's garbage. I've been a Leafs' fan for a long time and I've seen these flavour of the month desperation moves before. The collective intelligence has decided that goaltending will expedite contention so that's all that is being talked about going into this summer. I remember when all the collective intelligence was talking about was how the 1989 Leafs needed a power play quarterback (Kurvers trade) or the 1996 Leafs needed an injection of passion (Wendel Clark return trade) or the 2005-2006 Leafs needed a starting goalie (Raycroft/Toskala trades).

Don't confuse people properly identifying the Leafs needs(Dave Ellett/Doug Gilmour revitalizing the Leafs PP was a huge part of their early 90's success and the immediate post-lockout Leafs did need a goaltender) with GM's failing to adequately address those needs.

The Raycroft/Toskala trades weren't desperation moves. They were moves made in the off-season to address one of the team's biggest weaknesses and they weren't made without other options(addressing the goaltending via free agency). That they failed and failed spectacularly is a fair criticism but it's a fair criticism of the man who made those trades, not who could see that Raycroft/Belfour were playing terribly.

 

[LeafsInSeven]

I hope Burke resists the desperation move of overpaying for someone else's garbage. I've been a Leafs' fan for a long time and I've seen these flavour of the month desperation moves before. The collective intelligence has decided that goaltending will expedite contention so that's all that is being talked about going into this summer. I remember when all the collective intelligence was talking about was how the 1989 Leafs needed a power play quarterback (Kurvers trade) or the 1996 Leafs needed an injection of passion (Wendel Clark return trade) or the 2005-2006 Leafs needed a starting goalie (Raycroft/Toskala trades).

Don't confuse people properly identifying the Leafs needs(Dave Ellett/Doug Gilmour revitalizing the Leafs PP was a huge part of their early 90's success and the immediate post-lockout Leafs did need a goaltender) with GM's failing to adequately address those needs.

The Raycroft/Toskala trades weren't desperation moves. They were moves made in the off-season to address one of the team's biggest weaknesses and they weren't made without other options(addressing the goaltending via free agency). That they failed and failed spectacularly is a fair criticism but it's a fair criticism of the man who made those trades, not who could see that Raycroft/Belfour were playing terribly.

It appears that we're in agreement on this as I stated that the "desperation move" would be "overpaying for other team's garbage".

As for the goaltending, it isn't that the goaltending can't be identified as a place for improvement, perhaps major improvement (most teams that finish 13th in their conference need to improve just about every area), it's that totally focusing only on it is the mistake in my eyes. The Leafs carry a forward group that with a few exceptions are defensively inept whether through disinterest or poor execution. No goalie is going to have wonderful numbers and results in front of this group.

 

[Deebo]

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=397723

Teams that have interest in Roberto Luongo are wondering how long is he going to play, how long is the commitment that you're actually making? He's got 10 years left on his contract, but if you look at the way the contract's structured, he's not going to play more than seven – the last three years are those bogus years for just over a shade over $1 million and he's definitely not playing those. So the maximum commitment is seven years, maybe six. There are some people out there who believe though, that Roberto Luongo is only prepared to play another four or five years in the National Hockey League.

I was always on board with acquire Luongo for the right asset cost, if him retiring 4-7 years is true, it mitigates the main issue people seem to have with acquisition.

 

[Zee]

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=397723

Teams that have interest in Roberto Luongo are wondering how long is he going to play, how long is the commitment that you're actually making? He's got 10 years left on his contract, but if you look at the way the contract's structured, he's not going to play more than seven ? the last three years are those bogus years for just over a shade over $1 million and he's definitely not playing those. So the maximum commitment is seven years, maybe six. There are some people out there who believe though, that Roberto Luongo is only prepared to play another four or five years in the National Hockey League.

I was always on board with acquire Luongo for the right asset cost, if him retiring 4-7 years is true, it mitigates the main issue people seem to have with acquisition.

I agree.  I've heard the rumors with Luongo only playing the next 4 years, but his actual salary is $6.7M for the next 7 years, I can't see him walking away before that.

 

[Corn Flake]

I agree.  I've heard the rumors with Luongo only playing the next 4 years, but his actual salary is $6.7M for the next 7 years, I can't see him walking away before that.

It doesn't matter what he says now because he could change his mind at any point during the contract and decide he's going to play 1 more, 2 more or play out the full contract.  There is nothing to stop him from doing that. 

So teams would either have to buy into whatever nudge nudge wink wink thing he did with Vancouver and trust it, or go under the assumption he could/will play out the 10 remaining years. You can bet Burke will be thinking the latter.

 

[Corn Flake]

From my pov, I'd be totally comfortable going with Gustavsson and Reimer/Scrivens with another season of experience/development/change with the team. From Burke's, I dunno, doesn't seem likely.

So you would go with that and your head would not assplode if they finished 26th again?  You are probably in the small small minority. 

 

[bustaheims]

So teams would either have to buy into whatever nudge nudge wink wink thing he did with Vancouver and trust it, or go under the assumption he could/will play out the 10 remaining years. You can bet Burke will be thinking the latter.

He has to. Going into any trade, you have to look at it as though the player will play for the entire contract, because, they just might.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

If that @strombone account really is Luongo...he's an odd fellow.

 

[Zee]

If that @strombone account really is Luongo...he's an odd fellow.

Yeah i've been following it the last little while on the rumors that it's actually Luongo.  He tweets alot.  IF it's really him, it's sort of strange since he's constantly tweeting to a fake Luongo account (notBobbyLu).  I guess stranger things have happened, but if this is how he gets his kicks...

 

[Corn Flake]

So teams would either have to buy into whatever nudge nudge wink wink thing he did with Vancouver and trust it, or go under the assumption he could/will play out the 10 remaining years. You can bet Burke will be thinking the latter.

He has to. Going into any trade, you have to look at it as though the player will play for the entire contract, because, they just might.

Gillis has screwed himself. He won't be able sell that magic beans clause to any other GM.  And people wonder why Luongo is not going to bring back much of a return.

 

[Corn Flake]

If that @strombone account really is Luongo...he's an odd fellow.

Yeah i've been following it the last little while on the rumors that it's actually Luongo.  He tweets alot.  IF it's really him, it's sort of strange since he's constantly tweeting to a fake Luongo account (notBobbyLu).  I guess stranger things have happened, but if this is how he gets his kicks...

Guys....... really?  Really.

 

[Zee]

If that @strombone account really is Luongo...he's an odd fellow.

Yeah i've been following it the last little while on the rumors that it's actually Luongo.  He tweets alot.  IF it's really him, it's sort of strange since he's constantly tweeting to a fake Luongo account (notBobbyLu).  I guess stranger things have happened, but if this is how he gets his kicks...

Guys....... really?  Really.

It's been rumored to be Luongo long before any Leafs rumors came up.  Some Vancouver "sleuths" have said it's him, I haven't bothered reading up on their so called "proof", it's just interesting if it is.  Not that I care either way, but it would be a strange way for him to get his kicks, it's often said goalies are in a class by themselves with weird things though.

 

[Tigger]

From my pov, I'd be totally comfortable going with Gustavsson and Reimer/Scrivens with another season of experience/development/change with the team. From Burke's, I dunno, doesn't seem likely.

So you would go with that and your head would not assplode if they finished 26th again?  You are probably in the small small minority.

I said I'd be comfortable with that, I'd definitely explore the trade market but I wouldn't saddle the team with something like a high cost locked in Luongo either. I don't know that there are a lot of options for the Leafs in net this offseason frankly and while the position could use an upgrade the whole team needs to improve in order to have a better finish next year.

I wouldn't be happy with a similar finish but then I'd take a lottery pick along with more development and trades/ufa's ( in a year that's shaping up to be decent for the Leafs needs )

If the Leafs had a shot at say, MacKinnon in the draft and a Getzlaf/Perry/Staal from the ufa market, it wouldn't be terrible.

Personally I just don't see anything on the goalie ufa market that I like better than Jonas and I can't really fathom the trade market completely from my perch so, yeah.

 

[Bonsixx]

If that @strombone account really is Luongo...he's an odd fellow.

Yeah i've been following it the last little while on the rumors that it's actually Luongo.  He tweets alot.  IF it's really him, it's sort of strange since he's constantly tweeting to a fake Luongo account (notBobbyLu).  I guess stranger things have happened, but if this is how he gets his kicks...

Guys....... really?  Really.

It's been rumored to be Luongo long before any Leafs rumors came up.  Some Vancouver "sleuths" have said it's him, I haven't bothered reading up on their so called "proof", it's just interesting if it is.  Not that I care either way, but it would be a strange way for him to get his kicks, it's often said goalies are in a class by themselves with weird things though.

Apparently the Canuck Place sick kid's hospital tweeted Luongo a happy birthday, at the strombone account. Proof?

 

[Zee]

If that @strombone account really is Luongo...he's an odd fellow.

Yeah i've been following it the last little while on the rumors that it's actually Luongo.  He tweets alot.  IF it's really him, it's sort of strange since he's constantly tweeting to a fake Luongo account (notBobbyLu).  I guess stranger things have happened, but if this is how he gets his kicks...

Guys....... really?  Really.

It's been rumored to be Luongo long before any Leafs rumors came up.  Some Vancouver "sleuths" have said it's him, I haven't bothered reading up on their so called "proof", it's just interesting if it is.  Not that I care either way, but it would be a strange way for him to get his kicks, it's often said goalies are in a class by themselves with weird things though.

Apparently the Canuck Place sick kid's hospital tweeted Luongo a happy birthday, at the strombone account. Proof?

Well after briefly googling this I found out that Ryan Kesler suggested people follow the Strombone account which would seem out of the ordinary unless Kesler knows something about the account.  Could be an in-house Canucks running joke, who knows.

 

[bustaheims]

From my pov, I'd be totally comfortable going with Gustavsson and Reimer/Scrivens with another season of experience/development/change with the team. From Burke's, I dunno, doesn't seem likely.

If the team's going to go that route, I'd be happier with a Reimer/Scrivens tandem and no Gustavsson. At this point, I think it's pretty clear what Gustavsson brings, and I'd rather give the two younger guys the opportunity to take the reins.

 

[Redleaf]

From my pov, I'd be totally comfortable going with Gustavsson and Reimer/Scrivens with another season of experience/development/change with the team. From Burke's, I dunno, doesn't seem likely.

If the team's going to go that route, I'd be happier with a Reimer/Scrivens tandem and no Gustavsson. At this point, I think it's pretty clear what Gustavsson brings, and I'd rather give the two younger guys the opportunity to take the reins.

Unless Reimer has a complete turnaround season, and/or Scrivens shows consistency in the big league, the Leafs will most likely be in the same situation they were last year. Which is to say they will be ok until the pressure mounts , or the injury bug bites, then they will free fall down the standings at the worst possible time again.

I have to believe Burke has learned his lesson here. You don't gamble on goaltending. Period. If a veteran goaltender doesn't suit up for the Leafs next season, I'll be damned surprised.