Grabovski Bought Out

[mr grieves]

Well you cannot put up those [expletive] numbers (by which I mean [expletive] goals, [expletive] assists and [expletive] contract) and expect to [expletive] stay or that some [expletive] GM elsewhere in the[expletive] league will be [expletive] stupid enough to trade for you.

That should be [expletive] clear to even the casual [expletive] observer.

Yeah he should have said thank you mr. Carlyle for putting me in a situation where I was going to struggle and then cut me loose from a place where I actually enjoyed playing. People should be allowed to wear their heart on their sleeve more and say what they really feel.  Its one of the beefs I have with mr hom hum kessel who is possibly one of  the worst leafs interviewees ever behind the borschevsky interview post game 7 vs detroit.

Since you appreciate the candid shoot from the lip interview style how about this:

Perhaps Gabbo could offer thanks to himself for playing his way onto the fourth line in the first place and then being unable to carry out fourth line duties while expecting an other uninterrupted four years being paid as a first line centre.

Of course not.

It is so much easier to presume that Carlyle wanted him to fail by banishing a thoroughbred scorer to plough horse duty.

The numbers are what they are and in this instace, they're not all good. In fact none of them are good.

Grabovski did not produce at a level remotely commensurate with expectations (including his own). Today's result should have been obvious to everyone.

In fact the only question I had was:what the [expletive] took them so long???  (the answer is they tried to trade him but couldn't).

Now that last circumstance ought to tell you and Grabbo something, namely, that this is not merely the judgement of David Nonis, of KW Sluggo or of a handful of malcontent know nothings, it is the value placed on Grabbo by the marketplace...and that marketplace does not see him as a $4.5M centre over the next four years whose shortcomings were the result of a coach's vendetta.

Now that would make for an interesting interview.

In the interim maybe he can use some of that buy-out cash to polish his vocabulary.

I've bolded the one correct thing you've said.

But, of course, you haven't bothered to look at the numbers and so the other conclusions are wrong.

As a start, someone drew you a picture:

 

[KW Sluggo]

I get that Grabovski  is upset and is a hot head but he really should have taken the high road here. 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

Normally, I agree wholeheartedly. But in this particular case, it reminded some of Grabbo as a player. When he got knocked down, as he often did, he got back up feisty and charged back into the fray. He doesn't have great command of the language and I think he's wears his heart on his sleeve. So I'm cutting him some slack.

Between the defensive role forced on him, his situation & drop in ice time he was given and his intestine issues (losing weight, etc), I'm prepared to cut him a bit of a mulligan. I do not believe this season fairly represents his ability and it wasn't all his fault.

I think he'll come back and do decently as a 2nd line scoring center.

As for the knock on his not dishing the puck, he is a shooting center. But the offensive chaos the Kulemin-Grabbo-MacArthur line created in transition in seasons past led MacArthur & Kulemin to career highs offensively and I sincerely question that Grabbo doesn't deserve some credit for that.

I will not dispute that but there is a time limit on sentimentality and nostalgia and it is a lot shorter than it used to be in a (dropping) salary cap world.

I wonder how many surprised at the buy-out folks think Bozak deserves some $5M a year for just short of the balance of his potential career?

After all if Grabbo is worth $5.5 over the next 4 seasons clearly Bozak is worth almost twice that based upon his comparative output.

Grabbo's contract was mistake and when his performance atrophied, when he kept falling down the depth chart, they tried to move him. That failed and then along comes Bozak saying ... well if you are paying $5.5M to Grabbo, I'm worth at least that too.

Grabbo's buy-out is also a cannon shot across the bow of Bozak's salary demands. Maybe Bozak stays, maybe not, but Nonis has served notice he is not Brian Burke lite and he is not Brian Burke 2.0.

The third period of game seven against the Broons established the fact that defensively, this roster was not good enough to defend a four goal lead. The defensive players will have to pay a price, in this case starting with the former offensive stalwart who has fallen to and failed at a third or fourth line defensive role while getting monstrously (in salary cap terms) over compensated for so doing.

To paraphrase Jimmy Buffett:

I guess it all blew up in Toronna
There just was no other way
After months of going crazy
There was nothing left to say
But when the dust had finally settled
And the air had quickly cleared
Things were better off than I had feared

 

[KW Sluggo]

Well you cannot put up those [expletive] numbers (by which I mean [expletive] goals, [expletive] assists and [expletive] contract) and expect to [expletive] stay or that some [expletive] GM elsewhere in the[expletive] league will be [expletive] stupid enough to trade for you.

That should be [expletive] clear to even the casual [expletive] observer.

Yeah he should have said thank you mr. Carlyle for putting me in a situation where I was going to struggle and then cut me loose from a place where I actually enjoyed playing. People should be allowed to wear their heart on their sleeve more and say what they really feel.  Its one of the beefs I have with mr hom hum kessel who is possibly one of  the worst leafs interviewees ever behind the borschevsky interview post game 7 vs detroit.

Since you appreciate the candid shoot from the lip interview style how about this:

Perhaps Gabbo could offer thanks to himself for playing his way onto the fourth line in the first place and then being unable to carry out fourth line duties while expecting an other uninterrupted four years being paid as a first line centre.

Of course not.

It is so much easier to presume that Carlyle wanted him to fail by banishing a thoroughbred scorer to plough horse duty.

The numbers are what they are and in this instace, they're not all good. In fact none of them are good.

Grabovski did not produce at a level remotely commensurate with expectations (including his own). Today's result should have been obvious to everyone.

In fact the only question I had was:what the [expletive] took them so long???  (the answer is they tried to trade him but couldn't).

Now that last circumstance ought to tell you and Grabbo something, namely, that this is not merely the judgement of David Nonis, of KW Sluggo or of a handful of malcontent know nothings, it is the value placed on Grabbo by the marketplace...and that marketplace does not see him as a $4.5M centre over the next four years whose shortcomings were the result of a coach's vendetta.

Now that would make for an interesting interview.

In the interim maybe he can use some of that buy-out cash to polish his vocabulary.

I've bolded the one correct thing you've said.

But, of course, you haven't bothered to look at the numbers and so the other conclusions are wrong.

As a start, someone drew you a picture:

And you haven't looked at all of the numbers and thius your conclusions are baseless.

The years of decent production preceded the new contract and after the $5.5M deal was signed, bye-bye production, so long initiative, bye bye first line, so long second line an hello checking line.

I am sure it is just a coincidence.

This is not about past performance. It is about a diminishing return on an aging athlete who is tied up at $5.5 per year for the next four years.

If he is worth anything close to what you suggest why would nobody take him in a trade. Grabbo has 10 teams on his approved trade list.

Why did not one of them want him? Price is too high for the on ice return.

the marketplace has spoken and you are wrong, not the marketplace.

Grabbo would be a good fit as Stajan 2.0 in Calgary where Feaster is the keenest judge of hockey talent there is.

 

[MetalRaven]

Leo Komarov just gave grabovskis comments a thumbs up and "[expletive]en great!"

Maybe Carlyle is a problem, or Leos just a very happy dude

 

[Zee]

I get that Grabovski  is upset and is a hot head but he really should have taken the high road here. 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

Normally, I agree wholeheartedly. But in this particular case, it reminded some of Grabbo as a player. When he got knocked down, as he often did, he got back up feisty and charged back into the fray. He doesn't have great command of the language and I think he's wears his heart on his sleeve. So I'm cutting him some slack.

Between the defensive role forced on him, his situation & drop in ice time he was given and his intestine issues (losing weight, etc), I'm prepared to cut him a bit of a mulligan. I do not believe this season fairly represents his ability and it wasn't all his fault.

I think he'll come back and do decently as a 2nd line scoring center.

As for the knock on his not dishing the puck, he is a shooting center. But the offensive chaos the Kulemin-Grabbo-MacArthur line created in transition in seasons past led MacArthur & Kulemin to career highs offensively and I sincerely question that Grabbo doesn't deserve some credit for that.

I just look at the contrast with Komisarek being bought out and Grabovski. Komisarek could have moaned and groaned he wasn't given a shot this season in only 4 games but he acted with class.  Never like when someone burns bridges like that. Grabovski will do fine.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Leo Komarov just gave grabovskis comments a thumbs up and "[expletive]en great!"

Maybe Carlyle is a problem, or Leos just a very happy dude

That's not his real twitter account. This is: @LKomarov.

 

[MetalRaven]

Leo Komarov just gave grabovskis comments a thumbs up and "[expletive]en great!"

Maybe Carlyle is a problem, or Leos just a very happy dude

That's not his real twitter account. This is: @LKomarov.

Nooo! trolled even....should have known. I got it on a re-tweet from a legit source...

 

[mr grieves]

The years of decent production preceded the new contract and after the $5.5M deal was signed, bye-bye production, so long initiative, bye bye first line, so long second line an hello checking line.

I am sure it is just a coincidence.

I don't know. Did you structure that as a post hoc ergo prompter hoc just to amuse me? Given that nothing in there even suggests a plausible account of why a player's production would decline -- offers no solid evidence other than the nonsensical 'intangibles' you hear trotted out on talk radio and in terrible bars -- I can only assume that.

This is not about past performance. It is about a diminishing return on an aging athlete who is tied up at $5.5 per year for the next four years.

Tell me about this after Nonis signs Grabbo's replacement from the UFA pool.

If he is worth anything close to what you suggest why would nobody take him in a trade. Grabbo has 10 teams on his approved trade list.

Why did not one of them want him? Price is too high for the on ice return.

You do understand that if a GM is looking desperate to move a player at a not-ideal contract, the incentives are for his potential trading partners to back off and acquire the guy after the buyout suggested by the desperation and acquire the player at no asset cost and for a better price... right? Or is that not a market transaction you think happens?

the marketplace has spoken and you are wrong, not the marketplace.

Pathetic fallacy. Nice. Am I responding to a performance artist? What is next, argument from authority? Can it be Glenn Healy? 

Grabbo would be a good fit as Stajan 2.0 in Calgary where Feaster is the keenest judge of hockey talent there is.

My god. Please, please tell me you're a fan of re-signing Tyler Bozak so you and I can spend the next year together watching Bozak's hairline recede in a Leafs uniform and Grabbo put up 60 points on someone's second line.

 

[TML fan]

Pretty sure Kadri is Grabovski's replacement. It was his play that pretty much booted Grabovski off this team.

 

[mr grieves]

Yes, let's all blame Carlyle for grabbos inability to produce. Sure he played a different role, but for 5.5 you percervere(sp). So we over paid for a one dimensional player and nonis fixed that. Kadri can easily replace grabbs. 

The other absurd thing about this line of argument -- in short, if he were better Carlyle would've played him better!! -- is two words long: Joffrey Lupul.

 

[lamajama]

Thank you Mr. Grieves. I made that point earlier....

Why would anyone trade for Grabbo when they knew he was almost certainly a buy-out player?

And yes - stick a guy like that on the 4th line....does no one remember when everyone was complaining about Naz being played on the 4th line and of course under-performing?

 

[Kin]

You do understand that if a GM is looking desperate to move a player at a not-ideal contract, the incentives are for his potential trading partners to back off and acquire the guy after the buyout suggested by the desperation and acquire the player at no asset cost and for a better price... right? Or is that not a market transaction you think happens?

The problem there is that there's no reason to think that was the case here. Nonis didn't "look desperate" to move Grabo and there was no reason to think that his being bought out was an inevitability. Look no further than this thread to see how much it caught people by surprise.

You know, I'm fine with someone not liking the decision today. I don't love it myself. Grabo was one of my favourite Maple Leafs and I'm sorry to see him go. But, quite frankly, a lot of the criticism here seems to be based on the idea that Dave Nonis is a drooling moron who doesn't understand the fundamental concepts of being a GM and quite frankly that really just makes the people who are making those sorts of accusations look like they don't really have the first idea of how a hockey team is run.

 

[Kin]

Why would anyone trade for Grabbo when they knew he was almost certainly a buy-out player?

Why would they know that? The only talk of it before today was as a possibility. It caught people here off guard and we follow the team pretty closely.

And yes - stick a guy like that on the 4th line....does no one remember when everyone was complaining about Naz being played on the 4th line and of course under-performing?

Quick trigger or not, Grabo's being put on the third line happened after he started the season slowly. It can't be blamed for that.

 

[TML fan]

I said way back maybe a month into the season that Grabovski looked like he didn't fit in anymore. I'm not surprised at all that this happened.

 

[mr grieves]

You do understand that if a GM is looking desperate to move a player at a not-ideal contract, the incentives are for his potential trading partners to back off and acquire the guy after the buyout suggested by the desperation and acquire the player at no asset cost and for a better price... right? Or is that not a market transaction you think happens?

The problem there is that there's no reason to think that was the case here. Nonis didn't "look desperate" to move Grabo and there was no reason to think that his being bought out was an inevitability. Look no further than this thread to see how much it caught people by surprise.

As far as I know, no one on this board is an NHL GM. So, why would we know?

You know, I'm fine with someone not liking the decision today. I don't love it myself. Grabo was one of my favourite Maple Leafs and I'm sorry to see him go. But, quite frankly, a lot of the criticism here seems to be based on the idea that Dave Nonis is a drooling moron who doesn't understand the fundamental concepts of being a GM and quite frankly that really just makes the people who are making those sorts of accusations look like they don't really have the first idea of how a hockey team is run.

Well, I've said before I'm reserving judgment on the move's broader implications until I see them: we'll need to see the plan at center. If the money and term are less than Grabbo and the production the same, great. If the money and term are similar and the production better, great. I've a plenty open mind about replacing Grabovski.

But I don't like the principle here at all -- selling so low on an asset that you don't actually succeed in selling him -- and my mind is not at all open to those who are saying this is a good move on the basis of Grabovski being removed from the roster.

But, yeah, I've been a bit strident in my views, which might make Nonis and Carlyle occasional collateral damage... As to whether Nonis is a drooling moron, too soon to say. Since the first bunch of moves this season when he cleared roster space, I've not really liked what he's done, other than the Bolland trade. Re-signing a spare part to 50% more and a year longer than a spare part should make certainly isn't evidence that he can keep his chin dry.

 

[MetalRaven]

Im gonna miss him and will always remember his battles with the kostitsyns (i dont care how you spell it)...I love his quote something like "im gonna wait for them outside, I will wait for them to come and then we will fight" I can't remember it exactly but it was awesome. His battles against montreal were amazing...he went after them like a wolverine on fire. I hope he doesnt do that to us. But high hopes for his replacement center tomorrow...which brings me to a point

What time EST does free agency begin? (aka christmas in July)

 

[mr grieves]

And yes - stick a guy like that on the 4th line....does no one remember when everyone was complaining about Naz being played on the 4th line and of course under-performing?

Quick trigger or not, Grabo's being put on the third line happened after he started the season slowly. It can't be blamed for that.

Now that'd mean we've gone from the team deciding to give Grabbo away after a 48 game season to giving him away after a 5-game slump. 

 

[freer]

Yeah.... I am sorry to the Grab's fans. I am glad.. A huge waste of 5.5 mil last year. 

Everyone here seems to be surprised.... He signed a  contract and then Sh_t the bed. In really life he would of been gone after 3 months. More money to sign kessel and trade for the rest. Maybe Bozak on a couple year contract..

 

[princedpw]

I gotta say I'm disappointed that they never tried playing Grabbo with Kessel.  Like not even for a solid week.  Damn

 

[Stickytape]

I really liked Grabovski, even if I didn't like his contract.  It seems like a waste that things didn't work out with Carlyle.  I'm confident he'll find more success wherever he lands, though.

Poor Grabbobear will need a makeover, I guess.