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Grabovski - Under the Watchful Eye Of An Angel

-10 for the series.  I hope to never have to see him in a Leaf uniform again.  He may skate hard, but he's a total liability at both ends of the ice.
 
Buy-out? Seems premature after one bad season where he was buried because a stubborn coach preferred the magic of the Kessel-Bozak combo.

As for the -10, he lacked finish because he couldn't turn his offensive game on after a season of not being given any chance to get it going. And it was his first playoffs, and I think that showed.
 
Remember Graboski has been sick with an unknown illness. Something that saps his strength. Plus I think he is more suited to an offensive role. Next season he will be back.
 
I watch grabo and feel he worked harder than any leaf.. Night after night.. takes huge hits and gets right back up. Pretty fearless. I really like him. THen I look and see he was a -10 in series and wonder how does that happen..
 
Strangelove said:
-10 for the series.  I hope to never have to see him in a Leaf uniform again.  He may skate hard, but he's a total liability at both ends of the ice.
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Did you actually watch the games? I think saying he was a total liability is completely wrong. I thought he was dangerous in the offensive zone, much more so than in the regular season.
 
I have really liked Grabbo and I am not speaking out or lashing out :) over high emotions from last night.

He plays hard, has tons of potential as a top 2nd line forward but even before this season was played I was hoping for Grabbo to be moved simply because of Burke's idiotic $5.5 MIL/ 5 year deal that Grabbo could never live up to in a league that was destined to lower the Cap.  I mean going from a $2.9 MIL cap hit to a $5.5 MIL cap hit??  Really Burke??

It was expected that the cap was going 50/50 which would have been $61.6 MIL.  Burke signing a 2nd line center to almost 10% of the expected cap was foolish. (Can you tell I think Burke made a mistake).

That being said, if Grabbo shows that he can handle ALL the aspects of being a number 1 center then keep him.  If not, put Kadri #2, Colborne #3 and McClement #4 and see if something can be worked out for even a temporary #1.

Right now I am still leaning towards the opinion that the Leafs should be buying out Komisarek and Grabbo this summer freeing up HUGE dollars to add 1 top forward or defensemen.
 
Bullfrog said:
Strangelove said:
-10 for the series.  I hope to never have to see him in a Leaf uniform again.  He may skate hard, but he's a total liability at both ends of the ice.
Click to expand...

Did you actually watch the games? I think saying he was a total liability is completely wrong. I thought he was dangerous in the offensive zone, much more so than in the regular season.
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Every second.  I was at two of them.  The guy gives the illusion of playing well by sort of skating hard and being near the puck a lot of the time.  But he gives it away constantly--in the offensive end he has no ability to cycle the puck and in the defensive he is either poorly positioned or over-powered by the the other team.  He also has a tendency to make extremely poor decisions with the puck (e.g. last minute of game six).  Which is why, by and large, his shifts turn into mad scrambles in the defensive end and, far too often, goals against.

It's great that he gets back up again after being destroyed by opposing players.  But as a second or even third line centerman he simply does not cut it.  Not for 5.5 mil at any rate.
 
Strangelove said:
The guy gives the illusion of playing well by sort of skating hard and being near the puck a lot of the time.  But he gives it away constantly--in the offensive end he has no ability to cycle the puck and in the defensive he is either poorly positioned or over-powered by the the other team.  He also has a tendency to make extremely poor decisions with the puck (e.g. last minute of game six).  Which is why, by and large, his shifts turn into mad scrambles in the defensive end and, far too often, goals against.

It's great that he gets back up again after being destroyed by opposing players.  But as a second or even third line centerman he simply does not cut it.  Not for 5.5 mil at any rate.
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X2
 
This argument seems to me to boil down to "The Leafs shouldn't have signed Grabovski at the market rate because they should have known he was incapable of doing what he'd proven he'd been able to do over the previous four seasons."
 
Well, I disagree. He certainly didn't have a great year this year, but I'm not sure how much an impact his health and new role on the team impacted that.

Last year and the year before? I'd have no problem saying he was one of the better 2nd line centers in the league.

Ultimately, he didn't produce on the scoreboard during the playoffs, and that's probably his biggest failure. It was nice to see him let loose a bit on offense though.
 
Strangelove said:
Bullfrog said:
Strangelove said:
-10 for the series.  I hope to never have to see him in a Leaf uniform again.  He may skate hard, but he's a total liability at both ends of the ice.
Click to expand...

Did you actually watch the games? I think saying he was a total liability is completely wrong. I thought he was dangerous in the offensive zone, much more so than in the regular season.
Click to expand...

Every second.  I was at two of them.  The guy gives the illusion of playing well by sort of skating hard and being near the puck a lot of the time.  But he gives it away constantly--in the offensive end he has no ability to cycle the puck and in the defensive he is either poorly positioned or over-powered by the the other team.  He also has a tendency to make extremely poor decisions with the puck (e.g. last minute of game six).  Which is why, by and large, his shifts turn into mad scrambles in the defensive end and, far too often, goals against.

It's great that he gets back up again after being destroyed by opposing players.  But as a second or even third line centerman he simply does not cut it.  Not for 5.5 mil at any rate.
Click to expand...

In the end it comes down to production.  Sure you can argue Grabovski wasn't given the opportunity to produce in the regular season due to ice time and linemates, but what's the excuse for the post season?  He was out there alot, had plenty of time with the puck and good line mates to work with, yet he produced nothing.  2 assists in 7 games.  Leafs are prepared to let MacArthur walk yet he at least scored 2 goals in 5 games.  Inexcusable for Grabovski who is currently the highest paid forward on the team.

Just looked it up, he average 19:06/game in they playoffs -- 3rd most on the team for forwards.  Only Bozak and JVR had more ice time per game.  Bozak scored a huge shorthanded goal, even though playing with an injury and JVR led the Leafs in points.
 
Nik the Trik said:
This argument seems to me to boil down to "The Leafs shouldn't have signed Grabovski at the market rate because they should have known he was incapable of doing what he'd proven he'd been able to do over the previous four seasons."
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I guess where I look at this market rate is compare him to others around the same salary and see how they stack up.  I don't like the front end loaded contracts as they are deceptive in determining player value like Carter, M. Richard, B Richard, Hossa, Sharp, etc.; contracts offered when the GM is drunk or something like Horcoff's; so that narrows it down to contracts like Pominville $5.3, Doan $5.3, Tavares $5.5, Cammalleri $6.0 and Elias $6.0. 

Would any of those players be a better option next season for the Leafs (besides Tavares obviously) over Grabovski?  That's one way to look at it I guess.

I prefer to look at the current Leafs team and try to speculate what is the best option for each position and I feel that for a 2nd line center Kadri is good enough and as a 1st line center Grabovski isn't.  I guess some fans might see it differently.
 
Britishbulldog said:
I guess where I look at this market rate is compare him to others around the same salary and see how they stack up.  I don't like the front end loaded contracts as they are deceptive in determining player value like Carter, M. Richard, B Richard, Hossa, Sharp, etc.; contracts offered when the GM is drunk or something like Horcoff's; so that narrows it down to contracts like Pominville $5.3, Doan $5.3, Tavares $5.5, Cammalleri $6.0 and Elias $6.0.
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Which is fine and all but if you're trying to accurately gauge what the market is/was you have to compare him to other people in the same situation. Tavares didn't get the market rate for his services. If Tavares was on the open market, he'd have been offered 8-9 million. Doan  was in his late 30's and by all accounts took less money than he was offered elsewhere because of his oft-stated preference to stay in Phoenix.

And while it's tempting to just dismiss deals like Horcoff's because "the GM was drunk" the reality is that deals like that impact how the market shapes up.     

Britishbulldog said:
Would any of those players be a better option next season for the Leafs (besides Tavares obviously) over Grabovski?  That's one way to look at it I guess.
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I suppose...if you disregard that none of those guys play Grabo's position.

Britishbulldog said:
I prefer to look at the current Leafs team and try to speculate what is the best option for each position and I feel that for a 2nd line center Kadri is good enough and as a 1st line center Grabovski isn't.  I guess some fans might see it differently.
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But that wasn't my point. My point was that you seemed to be saying that Grabovski was A) incapable of living up to a 5.5 million dollar salary and that B) Burke should have known that. But the reality is that Grabo is absolutely capable of being worth that because we've seen him produce at that level. Obviously after a season like this it's fair to question his worth going forward but that contract didn't fall out of the sky. He earned it by virtue of producing at the level of a very good second line centre for years.
 
Strangelove said:
Near the end of the Game in Six they show Grabo's entire shift where the Bruins scored the winning OT goal.  This, to me, is a microcosm of his play this season in the Leafs end.  He floats around and picks up absolutely no one, which is totally unacceptable as an NHL centerman: http://video.mapleleafs.nhl.com/videocenter/console?catid=802&id=248513&lang=en&navid=DL|TOR|home
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Really hard to argue with you.  Actually, I would have the same opinion of Grabo being on the ice late in game 7, too.
 
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