Andy007
Active member
yup, he (and people of his ilk) need, and want, that cheap, controllable labour
It's such a sad, ignorant world we live in
Idiocracy 2024
- Thread starter herman
- Start date
It's such a sad, ignorant world we live in
bustaheims
Well-known member
Racism and sexism were huge factors, for sure.
Guru Tugginmypuddah
Well-known member
That movie is turning into a documentary.
She had way too many headwinds working against her that teflon don doesn't have to answer for unfortunately. People's memories are short. As soon as the exit polling data came out I knew it was going to be a problem. Almost 50% said they were worse off now than they were 4 years ago. I wholeheartedly think people have very short memories and simply thought "Why do groceries cost more now?" and "Lots of people are coming into the border" and "Joe & Kamala are in the administration now and it's their fault" and that basically was endgame. It doesn't matter that there's policy overhang. It doesn't matter that many problems were inherited. R.B. Bennett and Herbert Hoover didn't cause the Great Depression but the voters sure made them pay.
She also was pre-ordained as the candidate 4 months prior to the election when in 2020 she proved to be not all that popular. Biden should've stepped aside earlier and the dems should've had a proper primary.
At the end of the day I'm not sure anything would've been enough though. Once people associated the dems with higher cost of living and open borders, rightly or wrongly, I don't think there was any coming back from that unfortunately. I also think in a world of misinformation that voters still think that he would be able to fix anything he says with a magic wand, which obviously isn't true, as if his response to covid was good.
Anyway, at this point I'm happy to watch it all go nuts from afar and watch how badly this will turn out for people who'd rather have a strongman than protection of civil liberties.
She also was pre-ordained as the candidate 4 months prior to the election when in 2020 she proved to be not all that popular. Biden should've stepped aside earlier and the dems should've had a proper primary.
At the end of the day I'm not sure anything would've been enough though. Once people associated the dems with higher cost of living and open borders, rightly or wrongly, I don't think there was any coming back from that unfortunately. I also think in a world of misinformation that voters still think that he would be able to fix anything he says with a magic wand, which obviously isn't true, as if his response to covid was good.
Anyway, at this point I'm happy to watch it all go nuts from afar and watch how badly this will turn out for people who'd rather have a strongman than protection of civil liberties.
bustaheims
Well-known member
This was ultimately a big part of the problem. The Democrats did not do a good job to touting their accomplishments in these areas in a way that it would feel beneficial to the people who are struggling. They focused on social issues - which has been a typical leftwing strategy - but that's really only effective when people don't feel economic pressures the way they do right now.
Unfortunately, they just elected a regime who are likely to make things worse for them, not better - especially if he moves forward with any of his absurd tariff proposals.
Agree with this. If Biden had stepped aside before or during the early stages of the primaries, perhaps democrats could have come up with a better candidate. She had too many strikes against her - female, black, appearance of having done nothing for the past 4 years, plus guilt by association with Biden (who is blamed for inflation etc). But as you note, it may not have mattered.
When Trump (literally) dodged the bullet(s), I figured it was all but over. Too many people who believe he was chosen by god.
I fully expected this outcome, but am still shocked and extremely disappointed in my fellow US citizens.
I don't know what the future holds, but hopefully it includes a Leaf stanley cup win before everything completely unravels.
that’s exactly the problem we have here. Trudeau needs to step down and give ample time to fine a viable replacement. If he doesn’t, the liberals are going to suffer the fate of campbell’s PC govt and be decimated.
Do I think a replacement helps the liberals stay in power? No, but if gives them a chance that the ‘conservative’ party will be held to a minority, which is the ideal situation because it will keep that polievre fear mongering jackass in check.
And truthfully you're better off having healthy opposition parties than one party dominating for years.
Highlander
Active member
Its seems the Liberals have had a long kick at the can, time for a change.
I’m fine with that - my biggest issue is that this Conservative Party isn’t the real Conservative Party. It’s an amalgamation of the yahoos from the reform and Canadian alliance parties. Look I identify more closely with NDP, but I had respect for the old PC party. At least these were people who actually cared about the country and weren’t spreading conspiracy theories and fear mongering bullshit.
bustaheims
Well-known member
Agreed. The PCs were much more moderate than the current CPC, which is much more in line with the Canadian ethos. Same was true of the Liberals until recently. Right now, I have no faith in any of the major parties to lead the country. The CPC are basically going to win because the Liberals have worn out their welcome and the majority of voters don't trust the NDP.
Arn
Active member
To be honest I think a lot of the systems we use to elect politicians are broken.
The UK first past the post system produces a parliament that doesn’t really represent the actual votes that are made. You have things where parties get 15% of the vote but 60% of the seats.
Similarly the US electoral college system I think is a bit skewed. (I know on this occasion the popular vote and electoral college lined up but it doesn’t always).
We have a proportional representation system for our local parliament here in Northern Ireland and I think it provides a more balanced representation of the votes (and lets you vote for who you actually think best represents you rather than voting for someone to stop someone else winning). It does have its own problems of governance of course but overall I do think it’s a better system.
But obviously the “winners” aren’t going to vote to change a system that might stop them “winning” in future.
The UK first past the post system produces a parliament that doesn’t really represent the actual votes that are made. You have things where parties get 15% of the vote but 60% of the seats.
Similarly the US electoral college system I think is a bit skewed. (I know on this occasion the popular vote and electoral college lined up but it doesn’t always).
We have a proportional representation system for our local parliament here in Northern Ireland and I think it provides a more balanced representation of the votes (and lets you vote for who you actually think best represents you rather than voting for someone to stop someone else winning). It does have its own problems of governance of course but overall I do think it’s a better system.
But obviously the “winners” aren’t going to vote to change a system that might stop them “winning” in future.
ZBBM
Well-known member
American guy here. The election was a disaster, but look beneath the surface and there are some mixed messages. It is not quite the blowout that the hot takes now are portraying.
Many factors in play, racism and misogyny most definitely important. But a very compelling, overarching explanation is that people everywhere are trying to come to terms with vast, complex, scary global uncertainties — CC, pandemics, mass movements of people (immigration) — that make them vulnerable to simplistic authoritarian appeals (the I'm a Strongman and only I can fix it and protect you) like Trump's.
Anyway, I don't post in this thread and probably won't again, but I wanted to convey to my Canadian friends that I am both deeply ashamed of my country right now — and, like many other Americans, resolved and ready to keep fighting to make it better. And it does have the capacity to be better.
Many factors in play, racism and misogyny most definitely important. But a very compelling, overarching explanation is that people everywhere are trying to come to terms with vast, complex, scary global uncertainties — CC, pandemics, mass movements of people (immigration) — that make them vulnerable to simplistic authoritarian appeals (the I'm a Strongman and only I can fix it and protect you) like Trump's.
Anyway, I don't post in this thread and probably won't again, but I wanted to convey to my Canadian friends that I am both deeply ashamed of my country right now — and, like many other Americans, resolved and ready to keep fighting to make it better. And it does have the capacity to be better.
I don't think any polls account for this fact.
Bang on.
Arn
Active member
Yeah our system is Single Transferable Vote.
So you might have 10 people on the ballot. You then rank as many of them as you want in order of preference. You can pick just 1 or you can pick 10.
Then during the count, if your prefered candidate is elected or eliminated then the second preferences get counted and so on.
It means you do get a good mix and generally a fairly representative mix of candidates elected.
Now as we’re a “post conflict society” we have a slightly strange kind of enforced coalition where the ministerial posts get shared among parties on a proportional basis (biggest party gets most portfolios and first pick etc).
It does mean that you get representation within the government of smaller niche parties as well - so it can give a voice to the likes of the Green Party who obviously have a certain focus.
Alternately it can mean other less desirable parties can get a voice but obviously as it’s proportional it can kind of be managed within the system.
Highlander
Active member
Sorry, I don’t buy into the racist or misogynistic argument at all. I would vote for a black woman if her policies made sense, the problem with Kamala is she never articulated her policies at all.
There was just a Democratic elected in Seattle that said they have to move from the far left and become more centrist
America is not ready as yet for socialism.
If Trudeau had one iota of sense he would do what Joe should have done and give some more runway for a replacement candidate.
The NDP has been a complete disaster in this country. One of their new brain trust here in BC is to put a .25 cent surcharge on every fast food paper carry out bag, just seems like another complete cash grab.
Sorry but gives me another reason to stop eating the stuff.
Bottom line is Trump reached the working person's and the people have spoken.
Now everyone has to live with the will of the people.
And Arn, I love the 10 candidate system
There was just a Democratic elected in Seattle that said they have to move from the far left and become more centrist
America is not ready as yet for socialism.
If Trudeau had one iota of sense he would do what Joe should have done and give some more runway for a replacement candidate.
The NDP has been a complete disaster in this country. One of their new brain trust here in BC is to put a .25 cent surcharge on every fast food paper carry out bag, just seems like another complete cash grab.
Sorry but gives me another reason to stop eating the stuff.
Bottom line is Trump reached the working person's and the people have spoken.
Now everyone has to live with the will of the people.
And Arn, I love the 10 candidate system
Disagree partly with your initial paragraph. Ever since Obama was president, there has been a surge of racial prejudice here in the states. Or at least, it has become much more visible. It's almost as if half the country resented the fact that they were being "led" by a black person and vowed it wouldn't happen again. Most of Trump's first term was spent trying to undo everything Obama did, almost as if they were trying to make him disappear.
It's unfortunate that the 2 female candidates that Trump has now defeated have been significantly flawed. Hillary was just plain disliked by many, even democrats, and she ran a campaign in which she seemed to assume she was going to win just because the opponent was Trump. That played right into the anti-elitist playbook that Trump was following. Kamala had other issues which have been mentioned already. A perfect storm of economic issues and cultural issues (immigration in particular) was too much to overcome.
I do agree that the dems need to move away from the far left. Not sure what's going to happen the next 4 years. Will we get a "kinder/gentler" Trump or a no-holds-barred nothing to lose Trump intent on burning everything down and getting even with all his "enemies". What's the old proverb...may you live in interesting times.
OldTimeHockey
Active member
I think that it's also important to remember what Trump represents to a good portion of the population. Especially through the rust belt and other industry driven areas. Jobs. I work for a steel manufacturing company that has a good chunk of it's NA sales go to the coal industry. If the coal industry goes belly up, so goes a lot of people's livelihoods. At least I think that's part of the fear that drives them towards a lunatic like Trump. They look past the other BS and simply look at "who's going to allow me to put food on my table."
I don't condone it, but I can understand it.
I don't condone it, but I can understand it.