Idiocracy
- Thread starter Highlander
- Start date
Kin
New member
Anyways, I think one of the more interesting things to emerge from all this is that it's virtually a certainty now that the people who reacted the most negatively to Colin Kaepernick have virtually guaranteed that he'll be remembered as a singular hero in the fight for civil rights.
These folks just can't stop stepping on rakes.
These folks just can't stop stepping on rakes.
Andy007
Active member
TML fan said:
Isn't the point that an elderly person would potentially suffer greater injuries when pushed to the ground than, say, a younger, stronger person, not to mention the fact that he would also potentially be a much less imposing target? Why would be inclined to thinking that go against protesting the treatment of unarmed black people by law enforcement? In fact, aren't both of these lines of thinking more similar than dissimilar?
Andy said:
You're talking about assigning value to a person based on age, sex, race etc...that comes from the same place that causes racist a**holes to kill black people for fun. That bias may manifest itself in different ways and may not be extremely hateful or murderous but it is essentially the same thing.
Andy said:
It's the same line of thinking, taken to the extreme. "Old people should be treated differently" is similar to "black people should be treated differently" except one has positive and one has negative connotations. Can you guess which one? I'm the only one saying everyone should be treated the same.
If you don't want to get stung by a jellyfish, maybe stay out of the water? The old man wanted to act like a young man and got treated as such. That's equality. Did they have to shove him? Probably not. But the shove itself isn't inherently wrong, unless you're assigning special value to the person being shoved. I'm not.
"Don't kill black people" sounds great but it's the wrong message.
DON'T KILL ANYONE.
Kin
New member
I think it's important that as we keep on with this we talk about the way that this is probably going to split into two separate issues. One is obviously the disproportionate way black, brown and native people are policed. The second is going to be a radical rethink in the way we look at things like crime and "policing" for lack of a better word. People have been posting charts of city budgets and they are, quite frankly, remarkable:
https://twitter.com/lizbybike/status/1268906602276552705
I think we need to start asking ourselves...is that the sort of society we really need? Shouldn't we be putting way, way more money into prevention and general social wellbeing than continuing investing so much into policing when crime has been dropping constantly for decades?
Obviously there will always be a need for some sort of investigative police force but taking up this sort of % of municipal revenues is insane. We could be doing so much more to make people's lives better with intervention and investment vs. punishment and thinking of ways to justify the money being spent.
https://twitter.com/lizbybike/status/1268906602276552705
I think we need to start asking ourselves...is that the sort of society we really need? Shouldn't we be putting way, way more money into prevention and general social wellbeing than continuing investing so much into policing when crime has been dropping constantly for decades?
Obviously there will always be a need for some sort of investigative police force but taking up this sort of % of municipal revenues is insane. We could be doing so much more to make people's lives better with intervention and investment vs. punishment and thinking of ways to justify the money being spent.
bustaheims
Active member
Oy. It?s not about some absurdist vision of ?equality.?
Be aware of the forcefulness of your actions when interacting with people who are vulnerable. And definitely don?t just leave them lying on the ground, bleeding from their head.
Don?t let racial prejudice lead to inequality and injustice.
They?re both about protecting people. It?s really that simple.
Be aware of the forcefulness of your actions when interacting with people who are vulnerable. And definitely don?t just leave them lying on the ground, bleeding from their head.
Don?t let racial prejudice lead to inequality and injustice.
They?re both about protecting people. It?s really that simple.
bustaheims said:
No. It's about changing a way of thinking that dictates that certain people or groups of people deserve special or preferential treatment, one way or the other.
It's also about people, individually or collectively taking responsibility for their actions.
The law will decide if the actions of those officers was justified. Were they justified in removing an individual who was blocking their path? Was the force they used excessive? Justice is blind, right? It shouldn't matter that the man was 75. And they didn't "just leave him". They called for medics.
It shouldn't matter that Floyd George was black. Nobody should die the way he did. But again, the law will decide that. From the video alone as far as I'm concerned there can only be one conclusion.
Even now, you can't remove your own biases from the discussion. You're so focused on the age of the individual, or the colour of the skin. If you can't change your own way of thinking, how the hell do you expect the rest of the world to do it?
Heroic Shrimp
Active member
Oh, ffs... The most generous evaluation of your statement is that it's preposterously misguided, but it's really hard to believe it's not just disingenuous to it's core.TML fan said:
When we're talking about the assessment of a 75 year old man, we're talking about 1) the cops' low risk of injury FROM the citizen, and 2) the high risk of injury TO the citizen.
Maybe you don't know this, but old people are really brittle, really weak, and have really bad balance. It was a casually brutally disproportionate response to a virtually nonexistent threat, followed by the immediate evasion of accountability and responsibility on the part of many cops. Did the cop mean to throw him and his head to the pavement? Probably not. Should he have known that the injury was a very possible outcome. Yes, he really should have, as a human being who ought to have common sense, let alone as a trained police officer. If he has no idea how much force, if any, is required and how much is too much, then he's in the wrong line of work.
TML fan said:
You're saying he's acting like a young man for exercising 1A? Really? That's the road you want to go down? That's the analogy you want to make? Maybe if he didn't want to get pushed he shouldn't have been peacefully exercising his right to assembly.
I'm sorry but people need to calibrate their actions depending on who is involved, unless you think that former cop gripping that little girl's arm should have the equivalent impact of doing that to Andre the Giant.
Should the old man have known that confronting the police the way he did have a high risk of injury to himself? Why are you only holding one side accountable? You expect the police to know better but not a 75 year old man? Does he not know how brittle he is? Why is he blocking their path in the first place? Does he have the right to do that?
The officer will have to justify his use of force and if he can't he will face the consequences. The act of the shove itself is nothing new or unexpected. You seem to think I'm saying the whole thing was justified. I'm not. I think the response was appropriate. I've made no mention of the force used.
My evaluation of your statement is that you cannot remove yourself from your own preconceptions and evaluate the situation objectively. "Old people are brittle. Don't push them. End of story." Very close minded. Don't push them at all? Or don't push them with excessive force? They're two different things. The 2nd one applies to everyone. Don't push ANYONE with excessive force. That's where I sit.
And in regards to Floyd George, my position is don't put your knee on ANYONE'S neck. Don't suffocate ANYONE to death. It doesn't matter to me that he was black. He was a human being who did not deserve that fate. I'm not trying to seperate him or make him a martyr for a cause. I just saw a person being murdered and it was horrible.
The officer will have to justify his use of force and if he can't he will face the consequences. The act of the shove itself is nothing new or unexpected. You seem to think I'm saying the whole thing was justified. I'm not. I think the response was appropriate. I've made no mention of the force used.
My evaluation of your statement is that you cannot remove yourself from your own preconceptions and evaluate the situation objectively. "Old people are brittle. Don't push them. End of story." Very close minded. Don't push them at all? Or don't push them with excessive force? They're two different things. The 2nd one applies to everyone. Don't push ANYONE with excessive force. That's where I sit.
And in regards to Floyd George, my position is don't put your knee on ANYONE'S neck. Don't suffocate ANYONE to death. It doesn't matter to me that he was black. He was a human being who did not deserve that fate. I'm not trying to seperate him or make him a martyr for a cause. I just saw a person being murdered and it was horrible.