Idiocracy

[TML fan]

Worrying that an old person might injure themselves in a fall comes from the same place as a racist wanting to kill for fun.... ok, I guess we're done here.

It's the same line of thinking, taken to the extreme. "Old people should be treated differently" is similar to "black people should be treated differently" except one has positive and one has negative connotations. Can you guess which one? I'm the only one saying everyone should be treated the same.

If you don't want to get stung by a jellyfish, maybe stay out of the water? The old man wanted to act like a young man and got treated as such. That's equality. Did they have to shove him? Probably not. But the shove itself isn't inherently wrong, unless you're assigning special value to the person being shoved. I'm not.

"Don't kill black people" sounds great but it's the wrong message.

DON'T KILL ANYONE.

You're saying he's acting like a young man for exercising 1A? Really? That's the road you want to go down? That's the analogy you want to make? Maybe if he didn't want to get pushed he shouldn't have been peacefully exercising his right to assembly.

I'm sorry but people need to calibrate their actions depending on who is involved, unless you think that former cop gripping that little girl's arm should have the equivalent impact of doing that to Andre the Giant.

Since when does 1A allow anyone to obstruct police from performing their lawful duty?

 

[TML fan]

I was talking with my crewmate today about a video he saw. A car driven by a black man drove through a stop sign. A police officer saw this and began following the car. He followed the car for about 7-10 minutes. The car pulled into a driveway. The occupant got out. The office rpulled up and got out, gun drawn, ordering the man to get on the ground. Nobody was hurt.

After watching this video, my crewmate immediately thought racism. He just ran a stop sign, he says. Why is he reacting that way? At a glance, absolutely this looks terrible. But then I asked a question:

"How do you know the officer wasn't running his plates the whole time he was following him? How do you know the car didn't come back stolen? How do you know the man in the car didn't have warrants for child abduction or murder? Maybe the person the car is registered to came back as having multiple weapons charges and is known to carry?"

There was a very long pause, and finally an admission that he didn't know. Preconceptions, right? People are being conditioned to think a certain way. All I have been advocating this entire time is to have some objectivity and perhaps think of people on an equal footing and not just what intersectional box they fit into. We spend so much time seperating eachother and highlighting all the ways that we are different, that I wonder if we ever stop to think of ourselves as "Human". And maybe, just maybe, that's the problem.

 

[Phileas Fogg]

I wonder if we ever stop to think of ourselves as "Human". And maybe, just maybe, that's the problem.

I agree wholeheartedly, and I think that's the issue with the state of policing. Taking the example of the old man, there was many other options for dealing with the situation other than applying force, but that was the first go-to for the officers in question. And instead of staying with him until the medics arrive, they just jackboot on by. There's no application of humanity in their thoughts and actions.

Apply the same situation to a young teenager - now you've got ever increasing groups that will go through life conditioned to mistrust the police - and that's what's happening. It's an "us verses them" brotherhood that's been cultivated, with ever increasing funding and militarization on one side of the ledger.

If your solution is equal-opportunity police brutality, then we're never going to get out of this spiral.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

I wonder if we ever stop to think of ourselves as "Human". And maybe, just maybe, that's the problem.

I agree wholeheartedly, and I think that's the issue with the state of policing. Taking the example of the old man, there was many other options for dealing with the situation other than applying force, but that was the first go-to for the officers in question. And instead of staying with him until the medics arrive, they just jackboot on by. There's no application of humanity in their thoughts and actions.

Apply the same situation to a young teenager - now you've got ever increasing groups that will go through life conditioned to mistrust the police - and that's what's happening. It's an "us verses them" brotherhood that's been cultivated, with ever increasing funding and militarization on one side of the ledger.

If your solution is equal-opportunity police brutality, then we're never going to get out of this spiral.

It's always been an us versus them brotherhood. Police brutality is not something new that's popped up in the last couple decades. My parents hated the police because of how they treated them. My generation hated the police because of how they treated us and my children's generation will no doubt feel the same way.
The difference today is the availability of data is much greater today than it's ever been before. Therefore, our children's generation is able to mobilize and organize much better than my peers or my parent's peers every could. Hopefully we're able to use this availability of data and ability to reach large groups to influence things for the better.

I don't think that comes through violence from either side, but I'm not going to pretend to know what it feels like to be "not white" so I can't really judge the reactions. What I can do is feel disgust in the behaviours of many people. People trying to blame things on looters. People excusing police reactions and handling of the situation. People like Donald Trump.

 

[Bender]

Worrying that an old person might injure themselves in a fall comes from the same place as a racist wanting to kill for fun.... ok, I guess we're done here.

It's the same line of thinking, taken to the extreme. "Old people should be treated differently" is similar to "black people should be treated differently" except one has positive and one has negative connotations. Can you guess which one? I'm the only one saying everyone should be treated the same.

If you don't want to get stung by a jellyfish, maybe stay out of the water? The old man wanted to act like a young man and got treated as such. That's equality. Did they have to shove him? Probably not. But the shove itself isn't inherently wrong, unless you're assigning special value to the person being shoved. I'm not.

"Don't kill black people" sounds great but it's the wrong message.

DON'T KILL ANYONE.

You're saying he's acting like a young man for exercising 1A? Really? That's the road you want to go down? That's the analogy you want to make? Maybe if he didn't want to get pushed he shouldn't have been peacefully exercising his right to assembly.

I'm sorry but people need to calibrate their actions depending on who is involved, unless you think that former cop gripping that little girl's arm should have the equivalent impact of doing that to Andre the Giant.

Since when does 1A allow anyone to obstruct police from performing their lawful duty?

This can be summed up the famous Spiderman line: With great power comes great responsibility. Even if someone were committing a crime, which this man wasn't, there has to be a restrained use of force. If you think what that old man was doing was obstruction vs a parade of police officers then I have no words for you. Shoving an old man and walking off while his skull is cracked open is not responsible use of this power. That anyone has to argue with you about this is really telling.

 

[Highlander]

Just an interesting observation on this video, at 2 seconds in the old guy juts his right arm out in a blocking motion, I never noticed this until I watched over and over in slow motion, he actually slaps the cop on his arm with the cell phone at exactly 3 seconds in the link below.  You will notice that the cop he slaps has never acknowledged what the man has in his hand, so when he is tapped he reacts.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52945190

Were the cops over reacting? Totally.  However one does have to question, if when this crew arrived, if this gentleman , had his hands relaxed and by his sides if he would have been shoved? I would have said no way.  I do hope for his safe and speedy recovery.

This is just an observation, not grounds for cruxifiction

 

[TML fan]

Worrying that an old person might injure themselves in a fall comes from the same place as a racist wanting to kill for fun.... ok, I guess we're done here.

It's the same line of thinking, taken to the extreme. "Old people should be treated differently" is similar to "black people should be treated differently" except one has positive and one has negative connotations. Can you guess which one? I'm the only one saying everyone should be treated the same.

If you don't want to get stung by a jellyfish, maybe stay out of the water? The old man wanted to act like a young man and got treated as such. That's equality. Did they have to shove him? Probably not. But the shove itself isn't inherently wrong, unless you're assigning special value to the person being shoved. I'm not.

"Don't kill black people" sounds great but it's the wrong message.

DON'T KILL ANYONE.

You're saying he's acting like a young man for exercising 1A? Really? That's the road you want to go down? That's the analogy you want to make? Maybe if he didn't want to get pushed he shouldn't have been peacefully exercising his right to assembly.

I'm sorry but people need to calibrate their actions depending on who is involved, unless you think that former cop gripping that little girl's arm should have the equivalent impact of doing that to Andre the Giant.

Since when does 1A allow anyone to obstruct police from performing their lawful duty?

This can be summed up the famous Spiderman line: With great power comes great responsibility. Even if someone were committing a crime, which this man wasn't, there has to be a restrained use of force. If you think what that old man was doing was obstruction vs a parade of police officers then I have no words for you. Shoving an old man and walking off while his skull is cracked open is not responsible use of this power. That anyone has to argue with you about this is really telling.

I didn't say they shouldn't be held accountable for their use of force. All I said was the use of force was applicable.

At the end of the video there's an officer in the tan gear kneeling down beside the old man. They didn't just walk off. You either didn't watch the whole video or were too busy being outraged to notice the details.

 

[Kin]

Shockingly all of the police misconduct and excessive force hasn't shut people up. Huge crowds in DC and Philly.

 

[Heroic Shrimp]

https://twitter.com/mattmfm/status/1269062706528768000

https://twitter.com/StephMachado/status/1269055062040600576

 

[bustaheims]

Shockingly all of the police misconduct and excessive force hasn't shut people up. Huge crowds in DC and Philly.

Who would have thought that police misconduct wouldn?t stop people from protesting...checks notes...police misconduct?

 

[Kin]

https://twitter.com/monilopez827/status/12693047802132741

Oh sure, you might watch this and think the cop is a psychopathic power abusing bully but have you even considered that the guy he's arresting might secretly be a terrorist child abuser? Have to hear both sides. We're all part of the human race.

 

[Heroic Shrimp]

https://twitter.com/lib_crusher/status/1269476395442417666

I have no idea whether it's more charitable to assume that they're too stupid to know the difference between a candle and a bomb, or that they're blatant liars that think the public is that stupid. It's mind-boggling how bad they are at this.

 

[Bender]

https://twitter.com/kyledubas/status/1269461143107534848?s=19

Cuz Stone Cold said so.

 

[Bender]

You know, a few bad apples spoil the whole bunch. But, like with the virus, what if we are massively undercounting and over half were already spoiled to begin with?

https://twitter.com/PhotoJazzy/status/1269053688582230017?s=19

 

[herman]

https://twitter.com/austin_police/status/1269326118366183424
I only share this one for beautiful comments within lol

 

[Phileas Fogg]

https://twitter.com/austin_police/status/1269326118366183424
I only share this one for beautiful comments within lol

OMG awesomeness. They'll probably come back and say that the photo was appropriately staged to protect confidentiality or some bs like that

Even Saul Goodman was smart enough to go around town and collect different signatures

 

[Bullfrog]

Should the old man have known that confronting the police the way he did have a high risk of injury to himself? Why are you only holding one side accountable? You expect the police to know better but not a 75 year old man? Does he not know how brittle he is? Why is he blocking their path in the first place? Does he have the right to do that?

The officer will have to justify his use of force and if he can't he will face the consequences. The act of the shove itself is nothing new or unexpected. You seem to think I'm saying the whole thing was justified. I'm not. I think the response was appropriate. I've made no mention of the force used.

My evaluation of your statement is that you cannot remove yourself from your own preconceptions and evaluate the situation objectively. "Old people are brittle. Don't push them. End of story." Very close minded. Don't push them at all? Or don't push them with excessive force? They're two different things. The 2nd one applies to everyone. Don't push ANYONE with excessive force. That's where I sit.

And in regards to Floyd George, my position is don't put your knee on ANYONE'S neck. Don't suffocate ANYONE to death. It doesn't matter to me that he was black. He was a human being who did not deserve that fate. I'm not trying to seperate him or make him a martyr for a cause. I just saw a person being murdered and it was horrible.

Are you unable to understand the simple concept that the adjective "excessive" is context-specific? The force required to be used to subdue a 200 lb professional athlete and an average 75-year old person is significantly different, right?

On another note, might I suggest you research why "all lives matter" is inappropriate? It just might illuminate why people are taking issue with your comments.

 

[TML fan]

Should the old man have known that confronting the police the way he did have a high risk of injury to himself? Why are you only holding one side accountable? You expect the police to know better but not a 75 year old man? Does he not know how brittle he is? Why is he blocking their path in the first place? Does he have the right to do that?

The officer will have to justify his use of force and if he can't he will face the consequences. The act of the shove itself is nothing new or unexpected. You seem to think I'm saying the whole thing was justified. I'm not. I think the response was appropriate. I've made no mention of the force used.

My evaluation of your statement is that you cannot remove yourself from your own preconceptions and evaluate the situation objectively. "Old people are brittle. Don't push them. End of story." Very close minded. Don't push them at all? Or don't push them with excessive force? They're two different things. The 2nd one applies to everyone. Don't push ANYONE with excessive force. That's where I sit.

And in regards to Floyd George, my position is don't put your knee on ANYONE'S neck. Don't suffocate ANYONE to death. It doesn't matter to me that he was black. He was a human being who did not deserve that fate. I'm not trying to seperate him or make him a martyr for a cause. I just saw a person being murdered and it was horrible.

Are you unable to understand the simple concept that the adjective "excessive" is context-specific? The force required to be used to subdue a 200 lb professional athlete and an average 75-year old person is significantly different, right?

On another note, might I suggest you research why "all lives matter" is inappropriate? It just might illuminate why people are taking issue with your comments.

Yes, I do understand that.

If you think I'm dismissing the grievances of the black community, you're sadly mistaken. I'm suggesting that as long as we keep defining ourselves by our differences nothing is going to change. I would think that the incident in Buffalo would have highlighted for you that the issues of brutality by Police are not unique to any one group. This is not a race to the bottom. We need to find solutions that incorporate EVERYONE equally and in my opinion the first step towards that is to start viewing everyone equally, in ALL respects.

 

[Kin]

Well, it looks like Minneapolis is going to disband their police force. So...anyone who is doubting the efficacy of protesting should prepare themselves for some big changes coming down the pipe.

Also, they're tearing down a ton of confederate statues. Even in the UK statues to prominent racists are getting the business.

 

[herman]

The aforementioned monument to state-led slavery:
https://twitter.com/bbcrb/status/1269644536281776128
The headlines write themselves:
https://twitter.com/profmusgrave/status/1269724480731066375

Took them awhile, but welcome to the correct side of history; now to also clear out the individuals flying those flags in their own ranks...
https://twitter.com/abc7news/status/1269376405768470532
One month ago:
https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/opinion/commentary/2020/05/09/the-marine-corps-always-faithful-to-white-men/