• For users coming over from tmlfans.ca your username will remain the same but you will need to use the password reset feature (check your spam folder) on the login page in order to set your password. If you encounter issues, email Rick couchmanrick@gmail.com

Internal Competition

nutman said:
You think the fact Kessel is young and a solid first line player could have just a bit do do with getting him. he is a player you can build around.maybe not a
crosby but still very good,and going to get better.
Click to expand...

I bent my wookie.
 
Saint Nik said:
nutman said:
You think the fact Kessel is young and a solid first line player could have just a bit do do with getting him. he is a player you can build around.maybe not a
crosby but still very good,and going to get better.
Click to expand...

I bent my wookie.
Click to expand...


Awwwwwwwwwww poor you. 8)
 
Busta Reims said:
Tigger said:
I honestly wonder if, back when he made the Kessel deal, he was really banking on landing the Sedins.
Click to expand...

I highly doubt it. I think he was just too eager to make his mark on the franchise. I mean, the Sedins had re-signed before the Kessel deal came to fruition. Unless you feel that it made made in reaction to not landing the Sedins, but, that doesn't seem like a Burke-type reaction, especially since we know he had been in discussions for Kessel as early as the draft. If it was really tied to landing the Sedins, it likely wouldn't have happened at all.
Click to expand...

Tied to it in the sense that Burke entered negotiations for Kessel before free agency and just happened to be in Sweden on July 1 ( wonder what Simmons had to say about that... ) oh I know he was only there for Goose...

I probably should have said 'had been' instead of 'was' there.

With his mindset at the time I can see him deciding to go ahead believing he could quickly find an alternative to at least one Sedin, it's hard to do and he failed. He hasn't given up though and something I'd say he's done well is to position this team and prospects under the cap. In two years he has 44 mil free. I know things change but that's some juicy space for such a young team and a guy who's somewhat adept at 'wheeling and dealing'.

Getting off track there, anywho.

 
princedpw said:
Tigger said:
Versteeg was actually referred to as a mistake by Burke and I don't think you can really trade a guy faster than he was, in and out.

Beauchemin might be a better example of Burke finally relenting on his plan of 'acceleration', as you note in the form of a mini rebuild.
Click to expand...

Even though Burke called the Versteeg purchase a mistake and Beauchemin didn't quite give us what we hoped, I think one can view both the Versteeg and Beauchemin transactions as positives for the Leafs. In Versteeg's case, he facilitated a transaction in which Stalberg more-or-less wound up being converted in to a 1st round pick.  Stalberg is now 25, turning 26 in January.  The 1st round pick is probably 18.  So we've shifted a prospect taken in the 5th round back roughly 7 years.  As part of a ongoing rebuild, that seems like a good move.

Likewise, Beauchemin was a UFA purchase for nothing but cash.  He also was converted in to a prospect and of course his money was freed up to purchase some other free agent in the future.

If we keep rolling over the roster this way, one can hope we will eventually make some progress.  I'm hoping Connolly plays well and 1.5 years from now, we can trade him away to a contender for more futures.
Click to expand...

Totally agree. I hate to say it but Strachan called this the 'churn' six years ago.

Go one step more with Kabs and you've got a legit forward prospect, half of Tyler Biggs and JM Liles.
 
Saint Nik said:
By sending him to the press box. It happens all the time when guys aren't playing well.
Click to expand...

Not likely to happen with Phaneuf out the first week of November, Gunnar playing shite and a 4.5 million dollar man. I was talking correction more in the sense of finality but I get what you're saying there. Aulie was already promoted though, past sitting Komi for a game or two that's some tough going on the depth chart.

Both guys were traded for pretty decent returns because they had value.

So I don't look at either trade as being in the context of Burke realizing he'd made a mistake with those players so much as realizing that the whole "retool, not rebuild" strategy wasn't really getting the team very far.
Click to expand...

I agree they both had value though I am a little inclined to think that Versteeg was more of a player correction than Francois but that's minor. I also agree with you that Burke changed his tune and did the opposite of getting a 'player that would get his team in the playoffs tomorrow'.

That wasn't the fastest of corrections but it was a pretty successful one, I think, especially when I throw the Kabs deal in the mix.

That was just a joke.
Click to expand...

If it has to go like this I'm Ernie.
 
All the talk thus far about the 4th line has been who of Boyce or Dupuis will win the center job to play between some combination of Brown, Orr and Rosehill. From what I've seen so far, the question should be reversed, who of Brown, Orr and Rosehill should be playing with Dupuis and Boyce. If these two continue to battle like they have, I'd put both of them on the third line, with Boyce on the wing, and play just one tough guy with them. Since the Leafs will carry an extra forward or two on the roster, those extras would obviously 4th liners (Lombardi's status being the exception). The extra tough guy could be inserted, with Boyce or Dupuis getting a rest on night when the Leafs play a particularly rougher team. 4th line is supposed to be a more grinding physical style, so some rotation there would seem to be of benefit.
I think with both Boyce and Dupuis in on most nights, the Leafs would stand a chance to get a little bit of offence from the 4th line, as opposed to virtually none with two fighters making up two-thirds of the line. Rosehill has impressed me thus far.
 
slapshot said:
All the talk thus far about the 4th line has been who of Boyce or Dupuis will win the center job to play between some combination of Brown, Orr and Rosehill. From what I've seen so far, the question should be reversed, who of Brown, Orr and Rosehill should be playing with Dupuis and Boyce. If these two continue to battle like they have, I'd put both of them on the third line, with Boyce on the wing, and play just one tough guy with them. Since the Leafs will carry an extra forward or two on the roster, those extras would obviously 4th liners (Lombardi's status being the exception). The extra tough guy could be inserted, with Boyce or Dupuis getting a rest on night when the Leafs play a particularly rougher team. 4th line is supposed to be a more grinding physical style, so some rotation there would seem to be of benefit.
I think with both Boyce and Dupuis in on most nights, the Leafs would stand a chance to get a little bit of offence from the 4th line, as opposed to virtually none with two fighters making up two-thirds of the line. Rosehill has impressed me thus far.
Click to expand...

I'm still leaning towards finding room for Frattin.  How about the 4th line is Frattin-Dupuis-Boyce, with Rosehill as the 13th forward?  [And if we expect a particularly gruelling game or have back-to-back, it could become Brown-Dupuis-Boyce + Rosehill or something.]
 
Crucialness Key said:
slapshot said:
All the talk thus far about the 4th line has been who of Boyce or Dupuis will win the center job to play between some combination of Brown, Orr and Rosehill. From what I've seen so far, the question should be reversed, who of Brown, Orr and Rosehill should be playing with Dupuis and Boyce. If these two continue to battle like they have, I'd put both of them on the third line, with Boyce on the wing, and play just one tough guy with them. Since the Leafs will carry an extra forward or two on the roster, those extras would obviously 4th liners (Lombardi's status being the exception). The extra tough guy could be inserted, with Boyce or Dupuis getting a rest on night when the Leafs play a particularly rougher team. 4th line is supposed to be a more grinding physical style, so some rotation there would seem to be of benefit.
I think with both Boyce and Dupuis in on most nights, the Leafs would stand a chance to get a little bit of offence from the 4th line, as opposed to virtually none with two fighters making up two-thirds of the line. Rosehill has impressed me thus far.
Click to expand...

I'm still leaning towards finding room for Frattin.  How about the 4th line is Frattin-Dupuis-Boyce, with Rosehill as the 13th forward?  [And if we expect a particularly gruelling game or have back-to-back, it could become Brown-Dupuis-Boyce + Rosehill or something.]
Click to expand...

I don't think that will help Frattin at all.  Playing him 6-8 minutes a night, with 2 'plugs' in a checking role won't further him along.  I'd rather him play with Crabb-Colborne on the 1st/2nd line for the Marlies in a scoring role for 18-20 minutes a night.
 
slapshot said:
I think with both Boyce and Dupuis in on most nights, the Leafs would stand a chance to get a little bit of offence from the 4th line, as opposed to virtually none with two fighters making up two-thirds of the line. Rosehill has impressed me thus far.
Click to expand...

I think it'd be a pretty big mistake for the Leafs to be making many decisions regarding the 4th line based on offense. The Leafs have a lot of talented offensive players in the line-up. The only guys in the top 9 who could be described as tough or physical are Armstrong and, maybe, Kulemin. The Leafs need defense and sandpaper from their fourth line. That means Brown is a lock
 
At this point, I expect to see something along these lines come opening night. Although it?s not perfect, I can live with it for now:

Lupul-Connolly-Kessel
Macarthur-Grabovski-Kulemin
Kadri-Bozak-Armstrong
Brown-Dupuis-Orr

Aulie-Phaneuf
Liles-Schenn
Gunnarson-Komisarek
Franson

Reimer
Gustavsson

The two guys who I think deserve to be in this lineup but likely will not be are Caputi and Gardiner.

I'd really like to see Caputi get a shot on the 4th line with Dupuis and Brown.  I?m a fan of his game and I think he deserves a chance. I?m impressed he?s played as well as he has after spending almost all last season on the injured list.    However, with Boyce, Orr, Rosehill, Crabb, Dupuis and Brown all fighting for 4th line spots, it?s unlikely Caputi will get much consideration. 

With respect to D, I think it?s a shame for Gardiner to end up in the AHL. It?s one of those rare occasions where I think he?s ready to play in the big league right away and that it would be good for him. If he has another game or two where he continues to play as well as he has thus far, it?ll be difficult to justify sending him down.    I?m also bothered by all the praise being given to Komisarek over the last two days.  AHLers were skating around him like a pylon on more than one occasion. 

Kadri has played well enough to earn the third line spot. While I think Frattin and Colborne have both shown flashes of the players that they'll ultimately become, they?re both AHL bound.  Colborne is great at controlling and protecting the puck in the offensive zone.  He?s finally using his frame to push off defenders.  Frattin?s got a great edge, plays hard every shift and has a nose for the net.  But a year in the AHL (hopefully playing on a line together) is probably best for them.  Both need to play 1st line minutes with the Marlies; not 4th line minutes with the Leafs.  They?ve also got a lot to learn still about playing in their own end and Dallas Eakins is just the man to show them the way. 

As for Goal, while Gustavsson hasn?t played poorly, I think Scrivens has shown he?s just as capable of a goalie and has probably outplayed him.  However, I?d rather see Scrivens play 50 to 60 games for the Marlies this year than sit on an NHL bench.  I?m content to have Jonas go in as the backup.

Lastly, as far as I?m concerned, Bozak has been the best player at camp thus far.  Looks like he?s playing with a bit of a chip on his shoulder after being demoted from first line duties.  If he keeps playing like this and the current first line doesn?t develop chemistry, I wouldn?t be surprised to see him back on a line with Kessel at some point. 
 
Crucialness Key said:
slapshot said:
All the talk thus far about the 4th line has been who of Boyce or Dupuis will win the center job to play between some combination of Brown, Orr and Rosehill. From what I've seen so far, the question should be reversed, who of Brown, Orr and Rosehill should be playing with Dupuis and Boyce. If these two continue to battle like they have, I'd put both of them on the third line, with Boyce on the wing, and play just one tough guy with them. Since the Leafs will carry an extra forward or two on the roster, those extras would obviously 4th liners (Lombardi's status being the exception). The extra tough guy could be inserted, with Boyce or Dupuis getting a rest on night when the Leafs play a particularly rougher team. 4th line is supposed to be a more grinding physical style, so some rotation there would seem to be of benefit.
I think with both Boyce and Dupuis in on most nights, the Leafs would stand a chance to get a little bit of offence from the 4th line, as opposed to virtually none with two fighters making up two-thirds of the line. Rosehill has impressed me thus far.
Click to expand...

I'm still leaning towards finding room for Frattin.  How about the 4th line is Frattin-Dupuis-Boyce, with Rosehill as the 13th forward?  [And if we expect a particularly gruelling game or have back-to-back, it could become Brown-Dupuis-Boyce + Rosehill or something.]
Click to expand...

I almost want to see Gardiner stealing a spot from Komisarek.
 
SchenNeuf said:
At this point, I expect to see something along these lines come opening night. Although it?s not perfect, I can live with it for now:

Lupul-Connolly-Kessel
Macarthur-Grabovski-Kulemin
Kadri-Bozak-Armstrong
Brown-Dupuis-Orr

Aulie-Phaneuf
Liles-Schenn
Gunnarson-Komisarek
Franson

Reimer
Gustavsson

The two guys who I think deserve to be in this lineup but likely will not be are Caputi and Gardiner.

I'd really like to see Caputi get a shot on the 4th line with Dupuis and Brown.  I?m a fan of his game and I think he deserves a chance. I?m impressed he?s played as well as he has after spending almost all last season on the injured list.    However, with Boyce, Orr, Rosehill, Crabb, Dupuis and Brown all fighting for 4th line spots, it?s unlikely Caputi will get much consideration. 

With respect to D, I think it?s a shame for Gardiner to end up in the AHL. It?s one of those rare occasions where I think he?s ready to play in the big league right away and that it would be good for him. If he has another game or two where he continues to play as well as he has thus far, it?ll be difficult to justify sending him down.    I?m also bothered by all the praise being given to Komisarek over the last two days.  AHLers were skating around him like a pylon on more than one occasion. 

Kadri has played well enough to earn the third line spot. While I think Frattin and Colborne have both shown flashes of the players that they'll ultimately become, they?re both AHL bound.  Colborne is great at controlling and protecting the puck in the offensive zone.  He?s finally using his frame to push off defenders.  Frattin?s got a great edge, plays hard every shift and has a nose for the net.  But a year in the AHL (hopefully playing on a line together) is probably best for them.  Both need to play 1st line minutes with the Marlies; not 4th line minutes with the Leafs.  They?ve also got a lot to learn still about playing in their own end and Dallas Eakins is just the man to show them the way. 

As for Goal, while Gustavsson hasn?t played poorly, I think Scrivens has shown he?s just as capable of a goalie and has probably outplayed him.  However, I?d rather see Scrivens play 50 to 60 games for the Marlies this year than sit on an NHL bench.  I?m content to have Jonas go in as the backup.

Lastly, as far as I?m concerned, Bozak has been the best player at camp thus far.  Looks like he?s playing with a bit of a chip on his shoulder after being demoted from first line duties.  If he keeps playing like this and the current first line doesn?t develop chemistry, I wouldn?t be surprised to see him back on a line with Kessel at some point.
Click to expand...

That's true, but chemistry doesn't get produced overnight. Remember when Wilson broke up the Mac - Grabbo - Kooly line? Big mistake. I see a lot of chemistry between Naz - Bozie - Army right now and I don't think it would make sense to shift him to the first line just because Bozak is playing better in a role he's better suited to.
 
WAYNEINIONA said:
Why is Orr in ahead of Rosehill or Brown? I just don't get it.
Click to expand...

Because all Rosehill can do is take punches and sit in the penalty box. And, Brown is hurt.

Seriously. In his NHL career, Rosehill has 138 minutes in penalties in ~229 minutes of ice time. That's less than 2 minutes of ice time per minute in the box. Not that Orr is necessarily all that much better, but, if the team feels it needs to carry one of them, it should be the veteran who actually knows how to rein himself in when needed.
 
Gardiner-Phaneuf
Liles-Schenn
Gunnarson-Komisarek
Franson

I see Aulie maybe being the guy to start the year with the Marlies if Gardiner doesn't crack before the end of preseason. He not only has looked like he belongs he looks like he belongs on the top pairing. Maybe you slot him alongside Komi to ease him into action and have the speed to get back for Komi. Whatever the case if the season started tomorrow, I don't know how you send him down.

 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top