Islanders vs. Maple Leafs - Dec. 11th, 7:00pm - SN, TSN 1050

[Champ Kind]

I was thinking fatigue was part of the problem in OT.  And then cw pointed it out, and so did MLHS.  While the overall minutes were well-managed, 16 and 34 played hard for the last 2-3 minutes just to get it to OT.

Tavares really dialed it up at the end.  3 straight faceoff wins to give the Leafs repeated chances to tie it.  We may crab about how much cap space he takes up, but he's still elite at what he does best.

I don't buy that. When the puck went into the Leafs end and McCabe went back to get it and thwarted the Isle forward who then went off along with the other Isle forward. Horvat and Brazil came on. Both Marner and Matthews could have went off. Instead they decided to play heroes and it cost them. If they were gassed it sure didn't look like it Marner put his head down and skated back hard. Matthews maybe not so but maybe he figured he'd take the trailer. If you're tired get off. Not the first time they've cost us in OT and at times it has been because they were out there too long. Not tonight.

Sorry, I don't buy it.  Stretch pass from McCabe to Matthews for a 2 on 1 with Marner. If that's not the prime situation you want on a 3-on-3, I don't know what is.  Sorokin makes the initial save and kicks out the rebound, its a 2-on-1 the other way.  Marner absolutely rocketed into his zone on the backcheck, no issues there.  It's 3-on-3 hockey.  Sorokin made the save on the 2-on-1 and Samsonov didn't.

If anything, I would ask why Rielly played Barzal to shoot, everyone in the building knows he's going to look to pass first.  Hey, what can you do, as others mentioned they did well to get the point.  But this whole blame Matthews and Marner for everything thing is getting pretty old.

 

[azzurri63]

Sammy is swimming! Does he ever look shaky, he seems to have no idea where the puck is frequently. It's tough to watch his body language out there. Keep putting the work in and hopefully his swim coach and help him get some confidence back.

I'm not surprised I said it last year that's his biggest problem nothing has changed. Only difference is last year he got luckier this year not so much so. Reason Caps let him go as a young goalie with huge potential. I really don't get how you can't work on that. I'm not a goalie coach but you think they could get him to be calmer in the crease.

 

[cw]

He had McCabe playing instead of Rielly. Robertson, Bertuzzi, Domi or Gregor were pretty fresh

Ah you see the problem there is (aside from the tired Rielly) none of them can handle the puck under contention without short support and short support in OT space is just losing with more effort. Knies with a speedy centre could work, but the only options left are stone-hands or stone-head.

In any case, the Leafs coaching staff don't really take the OT/SO frame that seriously, especially after banking points earlier and with a B2B coming up.

Really? (as in maybe I'm missing the sarcasm)
[youtube]iJJU5zQslbs[/youtube]

 

[herman]

Can we talk about how the Leafs got to OT?
https://x.com/Sportsnet/status/1734401994700267974

On 6-on-5, the Leafs have switched from previous seasons to floating (haha) Nylander up top as RD, and putting Marner at the goal line, similar to their PP set up. Previously, Marner up top was great as he's defensively responsible and has a silly level of hustle, and great passing vision. Nylander was down low (again, like their PP structure at that time).

When the house is packed by the defensive group, often the only course left is something from the outside. How many times have we seen a long PP sequence end up in a Rielly wrister or a Marner shot from hella far?

It's working better in this new way (that I've been yelling into the aether about for over 3 seasons).
[*]Marner is a chaos magician and can pick out pucks and lanes from plinko piles; at the goal line, he benefits from no one watching him until the puck comes low.
[*]Nylander is one of maybe 2 shooters on this team that is a legitimate threat from above the circles (Matthews is the other) and he gets a ramp to come downhill on the play if the opposing forward doesn't aggressively cover the point. His vision and passing is about on par with Marner's but more direct.

There were a couple of clears in the final two minutes that Nylander stifled. Even when they finally got out, he looped back with urgency and drove the puck right back into the OZ, setting up the sequence that finally netted the 1000th pt. Willy ripped it right at Tavares' blade through a screen instead of trying to hero-puck it into the top corner himself.

 

[dappleganger]

16 and 34 played hard for the last 2-3 minutes just to get it to OT.

Exactly.

Shame on Marner for playing about 2:46 with one break to set up for OT and running out of gas.
Matthews played about 30 seconds more than Marner. Bag skate them before the Rangers game!!!

Shades of Nylander falling down in that recent OT against Boston - playing 4.5 mins - most of the last minutes of the game plus OT. I allowed that maybe Nylander didn't get off the ice when he should have. But the decision for this OT is all on Keefe/the coaching.

If Keefe is going to run these guys for 2+ mins to tie up the game, maybe someone else should take a shift to start OT. Tavares, Nylander, Jarnkrok & Rielly also played the last 2+ mins of the game. He had McCabe playing instead of Rielly. Robertson, Bertuzzi, Domi or Gregor were pretty fresh.

I'll take some Domi and Robertson in OT.

 

[herman]

He had McCabe playing instead of Rielly. Robertson, Bertuzzi, Domi or Gregor were pretty fresh

Ah you see the problem there is (aside from the tired Rielly) none of them can handle the puck under contention without short support and short support in OT space is just losing with more effort. Knies with a speedy centre could work, but the only options left are stone-hands or stone-head.

In any case, the Leafs coaching staff don't really take the OT/SO frame that seriously, especially after banking points earlier and with a B2B coming up.

Really? (as in maybe I'm missing the sarcasm)
[youtube]iJJU5zQslbs[/youtube]

No sarcasm. This example is actually quite illustrative of some of my points.

In this game, Nick Robertson had a pretty good showing during regulation (his only one of that season, really). Once it gets past 2 cycles regular line changes in OT, Keefe mixes in a 3rd unit comprised of whoever is feeling it that game as a little reward. He did Domi/Robertson a couple of games ago in similar fashion and they nearly immediately lost on a couple of chances against.

On this play, the Leafs basically gave it up in Dallas' zone. If Benn does anything other than walk into N. Robertson, they probably win the game (maybe just an area pass to Suter who got wide and open). Robertson hustled back on the turnover but doesn't actually play this in any useful way (he's on his heels!). Matthews' hustle to cut off the passing lane is what forces Benn into a misplay which happens to work out nicely for us and Robertson bats it to open ice for a 3-on-1 the other way.

It's just a bunch of coin flips going back and forth.

 

[herman]

Marner is a chaos magician and can pick out pucks and lanes from plinko piles; at the goal line, he benefits from no one watching him until the puck comes low.

https://x.com/RinkRatReport/status/1734623012077392344
Good Marner

 

[cw]

He had McCabe playing instead of Rielly. Robertson, Bertuzzi, Domi or Gregor were pretty fresh

Ah you see the problem there is (aside from the tired Rielly) none of them can handle the puck under contention without short support and short support in OT space is just losing with more effort. Knies with a speedy centre could work, but the only options left are stone-hands or stone-head.

In any case, the Leafs coaching staff don't really take the OT/SO frame that seriously, especially after banking points earlier and with a B2B coming up.

Really? (as in maybe I'm missing the sarcasm)
[youtube]iJJU5zQslbs[/youtube]

No sarcasm. This example is actually quite illustrative of some of my points.

In this game, Nick Robertson had a pretty good showing during regulation (his only one of that season, really). Once it gets past 2 cycles regular line changes in OT, Keefe mixes in a 3rd unit comprised of whoever is feeling it that game as a little reward. He did Domi/Robertson a couple of games ago in similar fashion and they nearly immediately lost on a couple of chances against.

On this play, the Leafs basically gave it up in Dallas' zone. If Benn does anything other than walk into N. Robertson, they probably win the game (maybe just an area pass to Suter who got wide and open). Robertson hustled back on the turnover but doesn't actually play this in any useful way (he's on his heels!). Matthews' hustle to cut off the passing lane is what forces Benn into a misplay which happens to work out nicely for us and Robertson bats it to open ice for a 3-on-1 the other way.

It's just a bunch of coin flips going back and forth.

Yet regardless of 'short support', Robertson could participate, skate and score because he hadn't fallen down exhausted from playing 3 mins in a row.

Max Domi has 5 goals, 10 assists, 15 points in OT - more than Mitch Marner.
Az, Columbus, Montreal, Chicago ... what kind of 'short support' was there for him?
Max is also blessed with decent speed and skating ability.
He's tied for 58th among active NHL forwards in career overtime points with 10-20% more games that Matthews-Marner-Nylander.

Matthews & Nylander each have 21 pts in OT - tied for 27th. Tavares is 6th, 34 pts with many more games played.

When the top 4-5 forwards are gassed from playing the last two mins of a game to tie it up, I cannot blindly accept that those 4-5 gassed players are the Leafs best or only option.

I'm not sure if Knies is. He's got decent speed. Not so sure about his skating agility for 3 on 3.

Some of the Leafs players rested are better than Nylander/Marner when they're gassed. Nylander proved he can't do much when he's fallen and laying on the ice with exhaustion. Mitch can't when he's too gassed to get back into the play on a 2 on 1 the other way. That is particularly true if the opposing coach tries to play his stars for 3+ mins straight but neither the Bruins coach nor the Islanders coach were that foolish.

 

[azzurri63]

He had McCabe playing instead of Rielly. Robertson, Bertuzzi, Domi or Gregor were pretty fresh

Ah you see the problem there is (aside from the tired Rielly) none of them can handle the puck under contention without short support and short support in OT space is just losing with more effort. Knies with a speedy centre could work, but the only options left are stone-hands or stone-head.

In any case, the Leafs coaching staff don't really take the OT/SO frame that seriously, especially after banking points earlier and with a B2B coming up.

Really? (as in maybe I'm missing the sarcasm)
[youtube]iJJU5zQslbs[/youtube]

No sarcasm. This example is actually quite illustrative of some of my points.

In this game, Nick Robertson had a pretty good showing during regulation (his only one of that season, really). Once it gets past 2 cycles regular line changes in OT, Keefe mixes in a 3rd unit comprised of whoever is feeling it that game as a little reward. He did Domi/Robertson a couple of games ago in similar fashion and they nearly immediately lost on a couple of chances against.

On this play, the Leafs basically gave it up in Dallas' zone. If Benn does anything other than walk into N. Robertson, they probably win the game (maybe just an area pass to Suter who got wide and open). Robertson hustled back on the turnover but doesn't actually play this in any useful way (he's on his heels!). Matthews' hustle to cut off the passing lane is what forces Benn into a misplay which happens to work out nicely for us and Robertson bats it to open ice for a 3-on-1 the other way.

It's just a bunch of coin flips going back and forth.

Yet regardless of 'short support', Robertson could participate, skate and score because he hadn't fallen down exhausted from playing 3 mins in a row.

Max Domi has 5 goals, 10 assists, 15 points in OT - more than Mitch Marner.
Az, Columbus, Montreal, Chicago ... what kind of 'short support' was there for him?
Max is also blessed with decent speed and skating ability.
He's tied for 58th among active NHL forwards in career overtime points with 10-20% more games that Matthews-Marner-Nylander.

Matthews & Nylander each have 21 pts in OT - tied for 27th. Tavares is 6th, 34 pts with many more games played.

When the top 4-5 forwards are gassed from playing the last two mins of a game to tie it up, I cannot blindly accept that those 4-5 gassed players are the Leafs best or only option.

I'm not sure if Knies is. He's got decent speed. Not so sure about his skating agility for 3 on 3.

Some of the Leafs players rested are better than Nylander/Marner when they're gassed. Nylander proved he can't do much when he's fallen and laying on the ice with exhaustion. Mitch can't when he's too gassed to get back into the play on a 2 on 1 the other way. That is particularly true if the opposing coach tries to play his stars for 3+ mins straight but neither the Bruins coach nor the Islanders coach were that foolish.

Marner did not look gassed to me. He skated back hard after the puck got turned over and tried to get back. He made a dumb decision going behind the net. No idea what he was thinking that to me is just plain stupid. If you watch both him and Matthews screwed up the whole play. It was a 2 on 1 for the Leafs but Matthews should have went to the net and let it go or fed Mitch. Marner didn't really do anything other than going to the net but he should have hung back instead of getting trapped deep and then going behind the net which basically cost him getting back. If all this is due to players being gassed then Keefe needs to reconsider who he's sending out in OT. Obviously you want your best players out there but Horvat and Brazil were both on the bench to start OT and they won it.

 

[CarltonTheBear]