Jays Roster Discussion

[Andy007]

There was no intended snark in that comparison, but wow, that is a rich complaint coming from you.

Carrera's previous two years with the Blue Jays have been, respectively, atrocious and not very good. Again, you're only talking about his limited at bats this year.

And it is all moot based on my original point: Pearce is raking the ball, hitting around a 1200 OPS in the last month and a half. It's insane to keep benching him and pinch hit for him with an inferior bat.

 

[Kin]

There was no intended snark in that comparison, but wow, that is a rich complaint coming from you.

Not a complaint. I don't use snark in a derogatory sense. I was just saying that if you're going to be dismissive of the analogy you should at least get it right.

Carrera's previous two years with the Blue Jays have been, respectively, atrocious and not very good. Again, you're only talking about his limited at bats this year.

No, I'm talking about the sum total. Carrera, in his time with the Jays, has an OBP that's virtually the same as Pearce's for his career.

So again, I'd put the thinking at "these guys are both marginal ball players, so I'm going to go with Carrera who's had some success against Fister, has the platoon advantage and adds some speed to the lineup".

Which, I grant you, isn't iron clad reasoning or anything but I still think the most important part is the "marginal ball players" bit.

 

[hockeyfan1]

Blue Jays pitcher Jason Grilli traded to the Texas Rangers in exchange for minor league hitter Eduardo Pinto plus cash:


http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/blue-jays-trade-jason-grilli-rangers-eduard-pinto/

 

[hockeyfan1]

The differences between the Yankees, Red Sox, and the Blue Jays.  What those teams have done that we haven't; roster changes via prospects & youth movement; and what's in store for the future of the Jays as compared to the rest of the A.L....


https://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/baseball/blue-jays-face-an-uncertain-future-within-fortified-al-east/article35529188/

 

[hockeyfan1]

Blue Jays acquire veteran catcher Miguel Montero from the Chicago Cubs in return for  a player to be named later or cash considerations ( in which Chicago may pay all or some of Montero's $7M contract).

As of late, Montero's reputation has been less than stellar, being called "selfish" by the Cubs organization:


https://www.thestar.com/sports/baseball/2017/07/03/jays-trade-for-selfish-montero-seems-like-act-of-desperation-griffin.html

 

[cabber24]

Game over. To late to find their groove this year. Very frustrating to say the least... batting with runners in scoring position has been horrendous. Sure they have had injuries but they have not capitalized all year on the opportunities they have had. Big hits have been few a far between. I love my Blue Jays but this just isn't their year.

Still believe in the core, a tweak of the roster and a change of luck could go along way next season.

 

[hockeyfan1]

Assessing the Jays' assets:  the very good, the so-so, and the downright not-so-good.  The fact that the Blue Jays currently harbour MLB's oldest roster (oldest team) and with the season they've had so far coupled with all of the injuries to key players at one time or other early in the season, and now, as the team enters the second half and with the trade deadline looming, the Jays management brass will need to decide whether to retool or rebuild:

https://theathletic.com/73251/2017/07/05/how-valuable-are-the-blue-jays-assessing-torontos-assets-ahead-of-the-trade-deadline/

 

[hockeyfan1]

The Blue Jays have served notice that several players will be available as per trades (rentals).  This list includes the likes of Estrada, Liriano, Howell, and Smith.

Also on the trading block (though reservedly) are Pearce & J.A. Happ.

This year's trade deadline is July 31st.

Rumours, rumours... https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/07/blue-jays-trade-rumors-estrada-liriano-smith-howell.html

 

[Andy007]

I think we could let Howell go for, say, a single white flavoured tic-tac.

I'd say maybe they could hold out for an orange flavoured one but that might just be a pipe dream at this point.

 

[Darryl]

Sell, sell, sell.

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[bustaheims]

Sell, sell, sell.

Yup. Anyone not signed/controlled past this season should be traded for whatever they can get - and a few guys signed/controlled past this season should be made available, too. There's just too many teams between the Jays and the wildcard.

 

[Deebo]

Sell, sell, sell.

Yup. Anyone not signed/controlled past this season should be traded for whatever they can get - and a few guys signed/controlled past this season should be made available, too. There's just too many teams between the Jays and the wildcard.

The pending FAs aren't doing very well - Estrada, Liriano and Bautista.

Who do you have in mind to move who are controllable beyond this year?
I wouldn't want to move Stroman, Sanchez or Osuna.

 

[bustaheims]

The pending FAs aren't doing very well - Estrada, Liriano and Bautista.

Not going to get a huge haul for them, no, but they should be able to get something of value back for Bautista and Estrada. Liriano is basically a lost cause.

Who do you have in mind to move who are controllable beyond this year?
I wouldn't want to move Stroman, Sanchez or Osuna.

Those three are probably the only players I put a "not for sale" sign on. I'd definitely listen on Donaldson, who is still a season away from free agency. I wouldn't be pushing him out the door, but, being that he's already in his 30s, he shouldn't be completely off limits. Obviously, moving him would signal the beginning of a full scale rebuild, but, with the age of the core of Jays' offence, that may be the right direction.

 

[Deebo]

Happ probably holds good value.

 

[bustaheims]

Happ probably holds good value.

Absolutely. He might have the best value of all the players the Jays might actually be willing to move.

 

[Darryl]

Happ has good value. Could get something for reliever Joe Smith assuming he's healthy.  With the number of teams in who still think they have a shot might not be the deepest market place come the deadline.

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[Arn]

So do we think it was a mistake to hang on to Bautista and not start rebuilding without him (and Encarnacion)? Or has it just been bad luck and injuries?

Is Gibbons the right man to take things on?

Will it be another 20 odd years before the Jays make the post season again?

 

[hockeyfan1]

As we've seen, the Blue Jays biggest problem this year has been their offence.  But an even bigger problem, with all of it's vulnerabilities has been the rotation.

According to ESPN Statistics, the Jays overall pitching sits at 17th with a 4.48 ERA in the league. It ranks 19th when one takes into account their starters with a 4.73 ERA.

Last year, the Jays starters ranked 4th overall with a 3.64 ERA.  Among one of the best in the league.

According to Baseball Reference, the Jays offence ranked sixth lowest in the league at 4.13/game.

Coupled with all of the injuries, the 'bad luck' or more aptly put "Murphy's Law" -- "what can go wrong will go wrong" -- whatever you want to call it, it is what it is that makes for a terrible combination of poor results.  Which takes us back to the topic of depth and inconsistency, as I've said a hundred fold.

Depth as in relief pitching -- is Osuna the only good reliable guy they've got?  As a closer, yeah.  None of the Jays bullpen with the exception of Mike Bolsinger (and he's currently on the DL) has shown any real threat to be a good shutdown.  Leone maybe.  As for Tepera, Loup, Harrell....have your say.  not much dependable depth there.

The starters, with the exception of Stroman and perhaps Happ, have been shaky at best. Estrada is havin a year he'll likely want to forget.  Liriano?  Sanchez?  Hampered by recurring blistered finger problems yet again just when he was about to get back to his reliable self. (sigh).

Well, we can say the starting pitching and the offence have one thing in common:  inconsistencies by far and wide.  The depth is there but is there the willingness, the mental toughness, the confidence, etc.    Let's put it this way, Justin Smoak is flying high this year.  He's provided offence in a way the others have not, but where they should have -- Donaldson, Tulo, yes, even Jose. 

Having guys like Steve Pearce, Devon Travis ( who was on track in having himself a career year until he got injured), and Smoak is great.  Now what about the rest of the supporting cast?  Goins & Barney are the weak chain in the order. 

We can go on and on.  The fact remains that the Blue Jays roster is the oldest in MLB, the most injury-prone team this year, lack of proper depth in key places, a general malaise that permeates, and etc.

Lots of questions and a smorgasbord of probable answers.  Just like the Jays season.

One more thing:  the farm system.  It desperately needs to be built up more for the future of the parent team. 

 

[Darryl]

So do we think it was a mistake to hang on to Bautista and not start rebuilding without him (and Encarnacion)? Or has it just been bad luck and injuries?

Is Gibbons the right man to take things on?

Will it be another 20 odd years before the Jays make the post season again?

The biggest issue moving Bautista is his 10-5 right.  But a chance to win could get him to submit a list of teams.

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[Andy007]

So do we think it was a mistake to hang on to Bautista and not start rebuilding without him (and Encarnacion)? Or has it just been bad luck and injuries?

Is Gibbons the right man to take things on?

Will it be another 20 odd years before the Jays make the post season again?

The biggest issue moving Bautista is his 10-5 right.  But a chance to win could get him to submit a list of teams.

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That being said, he's a low .700 OPS hitter right now with below average fielding and base-running skills. I don't imagine the Jays would get anything of note for him.