Jays Roster Discussion

[hockeyfan1]

Looks like Josh Donaldson's rehab stint in Dunedin is not going as well as planned.  Donaldson played Tuesday but reports indicate that he had been "scratched" from the lineup due to recurring problems.

This places in jeopardy his being placed on waivesr for the required time frame.  The waiver trade deadline is Friday.

https://www.thestar.com/sports/bluejays/2018/08/29/josh-donaldson-trade-pursuit-hits-roadblock.html

 

[hockeyfan1]

Kendrys Morales & Marco Estrada have reportedly cleared  waivers:

[tweet]1034931718229291008[/tweet]

 

[Highlander]

Goodby Kendry, goodby Marco, wish it was goodbye to Donnyson as he has become a farmer, continually nursing his calfs.

 

[dappleganger]

Goodby Kendry, goodby Marco, wish it was goodbye to Donnyson as he has become a farmer, continually nursing his calfs.

What did you hear? I doubt Morales gets moved.

 

[Andy007]

Goodby Kendry, goodby Marco, wish it was goodbye to Donnyson as he has become a farmer, continually nursing his calfs.

Clearing waivers doesn't mean anything is imminent or will happen. This discussion occurs literally every year at this time.

 

[cabber24]

A depressing state of affairs in Toronto.

Do Atkins and Shapiro even know they work for the Jays? Given a contender and the best attendance and viewership. Atkins and Shapiro raise prices, resign no one, trade no one and shop at the Dollarama.

Enjoy your lack of ticket sales and viewership you earned it.

 

[digdug]

And meanwhile

Alex Anthopoulos has resurrected the Braves

 

[Andy007]

And meanwhile

Alex Anthopoulos has resurrected the Braves

I would love to hear your take on what Anthopoulos did to resurrect the Braves. He has been there less than a year, inherited the #1 farm system in all of baseball and made no moves (salary drop of Kemp? anything else?) prior to the start of this season.

Meanwhile people crap on guys who actually are good GM's....

 

[Deebo]

A depressing state of affairs in Toronto.

Do Atkins and Shapiro even know they work for the Jays? Given a contender and the best attendance and viewership. Atkins and Shapiro raise prices, resign no one, trade no one and shop at the Dollarama.

Enjoy your lack of ticket sales and viewership you earned it.

They inherited a contender who had very short window of contention left. Pretty much every player that made the Jays a contender has declined drastically since the end of the 2016 season, either due to age or injury.

The top 10 position players by fWAR from the 2015 season produced 33 fWAR over the entire season, those same 10 players have produced 3.4 fWAR in 2018 for whatever team they play for now.

The top 10 position players by fWAR from the 2016 season produced 25.1 fWAR over the entire season, those same 10 players have produced 4.0 fWAR in 2018 for whatever team they play for now.

No matter who was in charge, that type of decline from your top players would be very difficult to overcome, a rebuild was always around the corner. Most publications have the Jays with a top 5 farm system and there are some interesting players with control on the MLB team right now. There is also lots of money coming off the books over the next few years.

I'm actually pretty optimistic for the future of the Jays.

 

[digdug]

And meanwhile

Alex Anthopoulos has resurrected the Braves

I would love to hear your take on what Anthopoulos did to resurrect the Braves. He has been there less than a year, inherited the #1 farm system in all of baseball and made no moves (salary drop of Kemp? anything else?) prior to the start of this season.

Meanwhile people crap on guys who actually are good GM's....

Sorry.... wasn't aware that most of the Braves  moves were Pre-Anthopoulolos.

Still think he got a raw deal from the Jays though

 

[dappleganger]

And meanwhile

Alex Anthopoulos has resurrected the Braves

I would love to hear your take on what Anthopoulos did to resurrect the Braves. He has been there less than a year, inherited the #1 farm system in all of baseball and made no moves (salary drop of Kemp? anything else?) prior to the start of this season.

Meanwhile people crap on guys who actually are good GM's....

Sorry.... wasn't aware that most of the Braves  moves were Pre-Anthopoulolos.

Still think he got a raw deal from the Jays though

I also think AA got a raw deal from the Jays. The team from 2014 to 2015 had a new starter for every position player except for Joey Bats in right field. And the team AA brought together in 2015 was a legitimate championship contender.

Also, a lot of the top prospects the Jays have now are a result of moves made by AA. IMO, the only player of significance he traded away was Syndergaard.

He did better than every Jays GM since Gillick.

 

[Andy007]

A depressing state of affairs in Toronto.

Do Atkins and Shapiro even know they work for the Jays? Given a contender and the best attendance and viewership. Atkins and Shapiro raise prices, resign no one, trade no one and shop at the Dollarama.

Enjoy your lack of ticket sales and viewership you earned it.

They inherited a contender who had very short window of contention left. Pretty much every player that made the Jays a contender has declined drastically since the end of the 2016 season, either due to age or injury.

The top 10 position players by fWAR from the 2015 season produced 33 fWAR over the entire season, those same 10 players have produced 3.4 fWAR in 2018 for whatever team they play for now.

The top 10 position players by fWAR from the 2016 season produced 25.1 fWAR over the entire season, those same 10 players have produced 4.0 fWAR in 2018 for whatever team they play for now.

No matter who was in charge, that type of decline from your top players would be very difficult to overcome, a rebuild was always around the corner. Most publications have the Jays with a top 5 farm system and there are some interesting players with control on the MLB team right now. There is also lots of money coming off the books over the next few years.

I'm actually pretty optimistic for the future of the Jays.

Agreed 100%

Not to mention the fact that David Price alone pretty much solidified that playoff appearance and was gone the following year.

As for the farm system, AA left a few (not "a lot") top prospects, to be sure, but below them was a vast empty space of absolute nothingness.

 

[Andy007]

And meanwhile

Alex Anthopoulos has resurrected the Braves

I would love to hear your take on what Anthopoulos did to resurrect the Braves. He has been there less than a year, inherited the #1 farm system in all of baseball and made no moves (salary drop of Kemp? anything else?) prior to the start of this season.

Meanwhile people crap on guys who actually are good GM's....

Sorry.... wasn't aware that most of the Braves  moves were Pre-Anthopoulolos.

Still think he got a raw deal from the Jays though

No need to apologize, that did sound a bit testy on my end, which wasn't my intention

I disagree about him getting a raw deal though. He promised 3 playoff appearances in 5 years when he took over...they had 0. Then he went all-in for a tiny window of contention. We got to see some great playoff baseball briefly so hey, it wasn't a complete disaster I guess.

 

[Kin]

If Atkins and Shapiro are planning to do what Anthopoulous couldn't, build a sustainably competitive team around home grown talent, then it's pretty likely they'd have told Rogers' brass to expect a couple of fairly lean years in terms of revenues.

People can complain about that all they want but the Yankees and Dodgers have repeatedly shown us that there just isn't any avenue to winning beyond that. No amount of money spent on free agents can build as good a team as the one you build internally.

 

[hockeyfan1]

What's up JD?

[tweet]1035394672867332096[/tweet]

Donaldson, who is currently on rehab assignment in Dunedin (Single A ball), returned to the lineup Thursday (yesterday) after being on the sidelines the day before beset by recurring soreness problems.

The Bringer of Rain hit a solo home run in his comeback Thursday.

 

[cabber24]

A depressing state of affairs in Toronto.

Do Atkins and Shapiro even know they work for the Jays? Given a contender and the best attendance and viewership. Atkins and Shapiro raise prices, resign no one, trade no one and shop at the Dollarama.

Enjoy your lack of ticket sales and viewership you earned it.

They inherited a contender who had very short window of contention left. Pretty much every player that made the Jays a contender has declined drastically since the end of the 2016 season, either due to age or injury.

No matter who was in charge, that type of decline from your top players would be very difficult to overcome, a rebuild was always around the corner. Most publications have the Jays with a top 5 farm system and there are some interesting players with control on the MLB team right now. There is also lots of money coming off the books over the next few years.

I'm actually pretty optimistic for the future of the Jays.

They inherited an MVP, a young ERA winner, the best young closer in the game plus Stroman. I think a lot of people would agree that group is something to build around. Instead, management observed, spun their wheels and did nothing.

I am tired of this argument. Personally, not a "Shatkins" fan.

 

[Deebo]

A depressing state of affairs in Toronto.

Do Atkins and Shapiro even know they work for the Jays? Given a contender and the best attendance and viewership. Atkins and Shapiro raise prices, resign no one, trade no one and shop at the Dollarama.

Enjoy your lack of ticket sales and viewership you earned it.

They inherited a contender who had very short window of contention left. Pretty much every player that made the Jays a contender has declined drastically since the end of the 2016 season, either due to age or injury.

No matter who was in charge, that type of decline from your top players would be very difficult to overcome, a rebuild was always around the corner. Most publications have the Jays with a top 5 farm system and there are some interesting players with control on the MLB team right now. There is also lots of money coming off the books over the next few years.

I'm actually pretty optimistic for the future of the Jays.

They inherited an MVP, a young ERA winner, the best young closer in the game plus Stroman. I think a lot of people would agree that group is something to build around. Instead, management observed, spun their wheels and did nothing.

I am tired of this argument. Personally, not a "Shatkins" fan.

What did those pieces combine to give them over the last 2 seasons? What did other key pieces from the 2015/16 team like Travis, Bautista, Estrada, Tulo, Martin etc. do in 2017/18?

While what they inherited performed well in 2015/16, they didn't provide real value in 2017/18. Management saw that they were an older team on the verge of a sharp decline so they didn't move valuable prospects to add to a declining core.

If you are tired of the argument, then don't post about it.

 

[cabber24]

A depressing state of affairs in Toronto.

Do Atkins and Shapiro even know they work for the Jays? Given a contender and the best attendance and viewership. Atkins and Shapiro raise prices, resign no one, trade no one and shop at the Dollarama.

Enjoy your lack of ticket sales and viewership you earned it.

They inherited a contender who had very short window of contention left. Pretty much every player that made the Jays a contender has declined drastically since the end of the 2016 season, either due to age or injury.

No matter who was in charge, that type of decline from your top players would be very difficult to overcome, a rebuild was always around the corner. Most publications have the Jays with a top 5 farm system and there are some interesting players with control on the MLB team right now. There is also lots of money coming off the books over the next few years.

I'm actually pretty optimistic for the future of the Jays.

They inherited an MVP, a young ERA winner, the best young closer in the game plus Stroman. I think a lot of people would agree that group is something to build around. Instead, management observed, spun their wheels and did nothing.

I am tired of this argument. Personally, not a "Shatkins" fan.

What did those pieces combine to give them over the last 2 seasons? What did other key pieces from the 2015/16 team like Travis, Bautista, Estrada, Tulo, Martin etc. do in 2017/18?

While what they inherited performed well in 2015/16, they didn't provide real value in 2017/18. Management saw that they were an older team on the verge of a sharp decline so they didn't move valuable prospects to add to a declining core.

If you are tired of the argument, then don't post about it.

Nor did they recoup anything. Which is it, they choose to watch. Neither rebuilding or competing.

 

[Deebo]

Nor did they recoup anything. Which is it, they choose to watch. Neither rebuilding or competing.

They did trade Lirano, Smith, Pearce, Happ, Oh, Axford and Loup. Reports are indicating Granderson and Donaldson both are likely moved today as well.

The probably held on to Donaldson for too long. If he was healthy this season I would imagine he would have been moved by now and I don't anyone anticipated him being injured all season.

The other vets like Bautista, Martin and Tulo had no value at the 2017 deadline or this past offseason in the case of Martin and Tulo.

Giles, Smoak and Morales (who has had a pretty good year) are candidates to move for futures between this off-season and next year's deadline. They already have a strong farm system and good payroll flexibility opening up over the next couple years.

No guarantees, but I interested to see how this goes over the next couple years.

 

[Andy007]

Nor did they recoup anything. Which is it, they choose to watch. Neither rebuilding or competing.

They did trade Lirano, Smith, Pearce, Happ, Oh, Axford and Loup. Reports are indicating Granderson and Donaldson both are likely moved today as well.

The probably held on to Donaldson for too long. If he was healthy this season I would imagine he would have been moved by now and I don't anyone anticipated him being injured all season.

The other vets like Bautista, Martin and Tulo had no value at the 2017 deadline or this past offseason in the case of Martin and Tulo.

Giles, Smoak and Morales (who has had a pretty good year) are candidates to move for futures between this off-season and next year's deadline. They already have a strong farm system and good payroll flexibility opening up over the next couple years.

No guarantees, but I interested to see how this goes over the next couple years.

Yea and not only is their system a top 3 or 4 farm system in all of baseball but of the top 30, 22 are from Atkins/Shapiro.

That's pretty impressive and certainly not the result of "choosing to watch" and "not rebuilding."