Jimmy Vesey

[Bates]

And for the record Nik i said it's not uncommon for a player to pay $15K in rent, not that $15K is the minimum.  The only player I have ever heard state their rent was George Parros at the beaches area of LA and he was paying $15K for a townhouse not near the  beach.  He moved to Vegas to save a lot of money.

 

[Bates]

http://www.thehockeynews.com/blog/how-much-does-an-nhl-player-take-home-on-a-1-million-salary-not-as-much-you-think/

 

[Kin]

Do you build in the property taxes when determining your rents?  Do the tenants pay rent based on property tax costs?  It really is that simple.  I spend everyday in AZ with people who have left LA area because of the cost of housing and living.  I am not over estimating anything when I say that if you use comparables LA costs 2 to 3 times the cost of Phoenix and at least double that of any Canadian City.  The cost of acquiring property and enormous property taxes make LA property rent for that much more.

Well, you're definitely overestimating it vs. the websites who try to measure cost of living in various cities. Most of them I've gone through have the rents in LA being nowhere near twice that of Toronto and certainly not three times that of Phoenix.

But this is again where you're just misrepresenting the costs of where these guys live in general. Through things like 24/7 we've seen where hockey players live and they're not all living in palaces. A lot of them are living in fairly standard two bedroom condos that you can get anywhere, even in LA, for way less than you're saying even in the neighbourhoods you're talking about.

 

[Kin]

And for the record Nik i said it's not uncommon for a player to pay $15K in rent, not that $15K is the minimum.  The only player I have ever heard state their rent was George Parros at the beaches area of LA and he was paying $15K for a townhouse not near the  beach.  He moved to Vegas to save a lot of money.

But that's the point me and the others have been making. Players can tailor their lifestyle to their expenses. Guys playing in LA can and almost certainly do pay rents way less than 15k a month and live in perfectly nice places.

So making a million a year and playing in LA vs. anywhere is not going to be the difference between being rich and being not rich. Even if it's double or triple the rents(it isn't).

 

[Kin]

As I said Toronto was a bad example for my opinion as Alberta, Florida, AZ, Texas, are better.  But you should also add the 30% exchange rate the player playing in Toronto will receive that really helps paying his rent.

Nah, for my purposes I'm just using US dollars across the board. Like I said, I already think you're monstrously overestimating the difference in housing costs. I'm not tacking on another 30% when I already think you're way too high.

 

[Bates]

Rents in LA are most definately 3 times that of Phoenix when you use comparable properties.  You can rent a nice 2000 sq/ft home in Phoenix for under $1500 a month, you are not getting that property in LA for under $5K, property taxes alone would be $1000 per month in that area.

Do you build in the property taxes when determining your rents?  Do the tenants pay rent based on property tax costs?  It really is that simple.  I spend everyday in AZ with people who have left LA area because of the cost of housing and living.  I am not over estimating anything when I say that if you use comparables LA costs 2 to 3 times the cost of Phoenix and at least double that of any Canadian City.  The cost of acquiring property and enormous property taxes make LA property rent for that much more.

Well, you're definitely overestimating it vs. the websites who try to measure cost of living in various cities. Most of them I've gone through have the rents in LA being nowhere near twice that of Toronto and certainly not three times that of Phoenix.

But this is again where you're just misrepresenting the costs of where these guys live in general. Through things like 24/7 we've seen where hockey players live and they're not all living in palaces. A lot of them are living in fairly standard two bedroom condos that you can get anywhere, even in LA, for way less than you're saying even in the neighbourhoods you're talking about.

 

[Bates]

And i'm saying it's still double the price.  The apartment that a player might rent near the beach in LA might be a starter unit for $5000 per month, the comparable in Toronto would be $2500 a month.  And how can you not consider the exchange rate as a very real benefit when paying expenses?

And for the record Nik i said it's not uncommon for a player to pay $15K in rent, not that $15K is the minimum.  The only player I have ever heard state their rent was George Parros at the beaches area of LA and he was paying $15K for a townhouse not near the  beach.  He moved to Vegas to save a lot of money.

But that's the point me and the others have been making. Players can tailor their lifestyle to their expenses. Guys playing in LA can and almost certainly do pay rents way less than 15k a month and live in perfectly nice places.

So making a million a year and playing in LA vs. anywhere is not going to be the difference between being rich and being not rich. Even if it's double or triple the rents(it isn't).

 

[Kin]

Rents in LA are most definately 3 times that of Phoenix when you use comparable properties.  You can rent a nice 2000 sq/ft home in Phoenix for under $1500 a month, you are not getting that property in LA for under $5K, property taxes alone would be $1000 per month in that area.

Yeah, I just looked on a rental website and found multiple places in LA at 2,000 square feet(which is much bigger than where a young, single NHL player would need) for under 5K.

 

[Bates]

Take a look on that website for places near the two beaches where they all actually live and compare that to North Scottsdale where the Coyotes players actually live.  There is a massive difference in cost. And compare the places that are actually comparable. 

Rents in LA are most definately 3 times that of Phoenix when you use comparable properties.  You can rent a nice 2000 sq/ft home in Phoenix for under $1500 a month, you are not getting that property in LA for under $5K, property taxes alone would be $1000 per month in that area.

Yeah, I just looked on a rental website and found multiple places in LA at 2,000 square feet(which is much bigger than where a young, single NHL player would need) for under 5K.

 

[Kin]

And i'm saying it's still double the price.  The apartment that a player might rent near the beach in LA might be a starter unit for $5000 per month, the comparable in Toronto would be $2500 a month.  And how can you not consider the exchange rate as a very real benefit when paying expenses?

I am considering it. I'm saying it was already built into the calculation. Like I said, I think you're wrong about housing costs even if we're just comparing US dollars to US dollars(and I'm backed up by the places who measure these things).

And, again, that's a side issue to the general point about the difference between whether or not living in LA vs. anywhere else is the difference between being rich or not.

 

[Bates]

Again Toronto was a bad comparison on my part.  But if a player has a choice between NY, LA, AZ, or Edmonton, the player will have significantly more money at the end of the year if he chooses AZ or AB.  And he will get to live in much nicer accomodations in either of AZ or AB for the same or less money.  Now that can't account for lifestyle but I doubt he'd be suffering in Scottsdale.

And i'm saying it's still double the price.  The apartment that a player might rent near the beach in LA might be a starter unit for $5000 per month, the comparable in Toronto would be $2500 a month.  And how can you not consider the exchange rate as a very real benefit when paying expenses?

I am considering it. I'm saying it was already built into the calculation. Like I said, I think you're wrong about housing costs even if we're just comparing US dollars to US dollars(and I'm backed up by the places who measure these things).

And, again, that's a side issue to the general point about the difference between whether or not living in LA vs. anywhere else is the difference between being rich or not.

 

[Kin]

I mean, again, now using the 1500 vs. 5000 figures here's where that would leave an LA player vs. a PHX player:

After taxes and 5k a month rent in LA: 572K

After taxes and 1500 a month rent in Phoenix: 697K

Again, there's a difference but it's not the difference between being rich and being not rich.

 

[Bates]

I think a guy being able to bank over $100K a year for his career would be a massive difference in Life after hockey.  If you don't that's fine.  And the AZ guy can buy his house to have forever, the LA guy not so much.  And remember we are talking about the low earners, not the stars.

I mean, again, now using the 1500 vs. 5000 figures here's where that would leave an LA player vs. a PHX player:

After taxes and 5k a month rent in LA: 572K

After taxes and 1500 a month rent in Phoenix: 697K

Again, there's a difference but it's not the difference between being rich and being not rich.

 

[Kin]

I think a guy being able to bank over $100K a year for his career would be a massive difference in Life after hockey.  If you don't that's fine.  And the AZ guy can buy his house to have forever, the LA guy not so much.  And remember we are talking about the low earners, not the stars.

Hockey players can buy property wherever they want, they don't have to live post-playing career in the cities they played in.

Anyways, I still think you're ignoring what I said earlier. The guys who are on the low end of the earning scale aren't guys who typically have a lot of choice in where they play. Once you start making more and more, that difference becomes less and less significant. So there probably aren't a lot of cases of guys choosing LA or NYC at the low end of the NHL wage scale who have 29 other offers to consider so this idea that they're "choosing" to earn less doesn't really hold water.

But in the end run if you're a young player with visions of earning a lot more on the horizon it seems like lots of them are willing to essentially pay 100k or so a year to live in LA vs. living in Arizona and as someone who's been to both places...I understand it.

 

[Bates]

But this thread is about a guy just starting out who did choose one of the more expensive places?  Other than that I agree but I hear more each year about players making taxes part of their free agency decision yet I rarely hear COL make it?

I think a guy being able to bank over $100K a year for his career would be a massive difference in Life after hockey.  If you don't that's fine.  And the AZ guy can buy his house to have forever, the LA guy not so much.  And remember we are talking about the low earners, not the stars.

Hockey players can buy property wherever they want, they don't have to live post-playing career in the cities they played in.

Anyways, I still think you're ignoring what I said earlier. The guys who are on the low end of the earning scale aren't guys who typically have a lot of choice in where they play. Once you start making more and more, that difference becomes less and less significant. So there probably aren't a lot of cases of guys choosing LA or NYC at the low end of the NHL wage scale who have 29 other offers to consider so this idea that they're "choosing" to earn less doesn't really hold water.

But in the end run if you're a young player with visions of earning a lot more on the horizon it seems like lots of them are willing to essentially pay 100k or so a year to live in LA vs. living in Arizona and as someone who's been to both places...I understand it.

 

[bustaheims]

But this thread is about a guy just starting out who did choose one of the more expensive places?

Which Nik covered in his last paragraph. And, this guy who is just starting out has potential to earn nearly $4M a season on his current contract. We're not necessarily talking about a small fish here.

 

[Bates]

Who might not make that in his career.

But this thread is about a guy just starting out who did choose one of the more expensive places?

Which Nik covered in his last paragraph. And, this guy who is just starting out has potential to earn nearly $4M a season on his current contract. We're not necessarily talking about a small fish here.

 

[Kin]

But this thread is about a guy just starting out who did choose one of the more expensive places?

Right, but in the cases of those guys you have to figure that the mentality of those players isn't that they're going to be on the low end of the NHL wage scale for ever. Someone like Jimmy Vesey probably thinks that wherever he goes to play he'll be signing a big money multi-year extension as a RFA or UFA which will make a 100k per year difference at the start of his career not a huge deal.

Younger players are the ones most likely to look at the lifestyle advantages in a NYC or LA as being worth a big chunk of their paychecks. If you're married with kids then having much better clubs or restaurants or being the centers of the world's entertainment industries are probably less of a big deal.

 

[bustaheims]

Who might not make that in his career.

He certainly doesn't believe that, which is basically the point here. You're looking at a highly touted athlete in his early 20s. You think he's going to be making a decision based on the safe move, or that he's going to be extremely confident in his ability to earn a multi-million dollar contract in the near future?

 

[TBLeafer]

Rent debate aside (Its a non issue for a Harvard grad guaranteed to earn close to $1M next year and possibly quite a bit more if he hits performance bonuses) he'll have plenty of friends in NYC.

I read somewhere that close to 40% of all Harvard grads go end up in the Big Apple right after they graduate.

That's a big piece of the Harvard grad pie, considering its just one city in all of the U.S.

Start spreading the news.