Kyle Dubas not returning as GM

[L K]

Obviously who the new GM is going to really determine how I feel about this.  On the surface I'm not thrilled but it's not entirely unexpected or undeserved.

That presser on Monday didn't sound like a guy ready to go through the grind again

The autonomy stuff makes you wonder what he did/didn't want to do at times.  Shanahan sitting through multiple GMs with nothing to show for it.  The Shanaplan has been more of a bust in my mind and I hope he's the guy facing criticism moving forward

 

[Bender]

I mean, didn't you find it odd in the all or nothing doc the way he had to ask permission to trade the first from Shanny?

Wait, I didn't watch this, huh?

Maybe not outirght permission exactly, but it felt like he had to confer with Shanny first. I'll have to re-watch it to confirm, but I remember that standing out.

 

[Bender]

Speaking of juicy goss, let's see who the 'insiders' are stumping for
https://twitter.com/NHL_Watcher/status/1659609951155765249
Ah, the man known for taking great players and buying them out and/or shipping them off to more successful places

I really don't think he's the right guy. I do think their season was sewered by awful goaltending and a coach nobody wanted to play for though.

 

[Bullfrog]

I quite liked him and hoped he'd be back. My criticism is not on the success of the team, but the lack of upcoming depth. All those picks traded away are brutal.

 

[Highlander]

Interesting Factoid. Strange things you discover when your surfing. Shanahan is worth over 80 Mill. 

 

[Bender]

This is a bit of a reach and I'm just venting now... but just looking at some comparable contracts today... David Pastrnak is going to make marginally more than Marner NEXT season for 8yrs. Tkachuck at 9.5M/8yrs, Mackinnon at 12.6 x 8 (Cup winner), Kucherov @ 9.5/8 (Cup Winner), Point 9.5/8.

The fact that we couldn't get our player to 8yrs and still our contracts are amongst the most rich in the league is so frustrating, and he was only willing to take Nylander to the bag (just like the coach) and finally got a good contract. I know maybe $2m in cap space isn't a ton, and we expected the cap to go up (COVID), but still, if the cap was more or less flat since 2019 shouldn't we have seen more star contracts come close to our guys?  And term does still matter. Why are we the only team where we walk our players closer to UFA and still pay more?

 

[herman]

https://twitter.com/markhmasters/status/1659634763945091086

 

[bustaheims]

I mean, didn't you find it odd in the all or nothing doc the way he had to ask permission to trade the first from Shanny?

No. That's not at all unusual when the GM and the team president are different people. Big trades usually need to get approval from higher ups, often including ownership. Trading a 1st round pick or other significant asset would definitely qualify as a bigger move that would require a degree of sign-off.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

https://twitter.com/yyzsportsmedia/status/1659620253322842112
Rumour time!

Shanny basically confirming this... at least the money portion it seems.

 

[Kin]

This is a bit of a reach and I'm just venting now... but just looking at some comparable contracts today... David Pastrnak is going to make marginally more than Marner NEXT season for 8yrs. Tkachuck at 9.5M/8yrs, Mackinnon at 12.6 x 8 (Cup winner), Kucherov @ 9.5/8 (Cup Winner), Point 9.5/8.

The fact that we couldn't get our player to 8yrs and still our contracts are amongst the most rich in the league is so frustrating, and he was only willing to take Nylander to the bag (just like the coach) and finally got a good contract. I know maybe $2m in cap space isn't a ton, and we expected the cap to go up (COVID), but still, if the cap was more or less flat since 2019 shouldn't we have seen more star contracts come close to our guys?  And term does still matter. Why are we the only team where we walk our players closer to UFA and still pay more?

To a certain extent, because NHL contracts are so long, it takes a while for shifts in trends to show up. There hasn't been a ton of guys in recent years with really solid cases for huge contracts based on being top of the league types actually negotiate them and, when we have, they've tended to look like the Leafs deals more than not. You mention Mackinnon and Pastrnak but there really aren't many other similar deals to compare them to other than ones where guys are signing at discounts in no-income tax states.

 

[Bender]

Not at all surprised by Shanny's presser. This is more or less what was reported and once we learned the exit presser caught the team off guard, I absolutely understand why Shanny would walk.

 

[herman]

https://twitter.com/yyzsportsmedia/status/1659620253322842112
Rumour time!

Shanahan basically confirmed the shape of this, and indicated he basically was ready to extend Dubas until Monday's presser. Wouldn't characterize it as a breakdown over money.

Reading between the lines, and before his full remarks come through, sounds like Shanahan lost belief in Dubas' level of commitment to the role.

 

[Kin]

Well, I really don't feel good about knowing that this wasn't a decisive action in order to affect meaningful change but was, instead, sort of everyone's second choice.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Well, I really don't feel good about knowing that this wasn't a decisive action in order to affect meaningful change but was, instead, sort of everyone's second choice.

This is pretty bizarre.

 

[Bender]

Well, I really don't feel good about knowing that this wasn't a decisive action in order to affect meaningful change but was, instead, sort of everyone's second choice.

This is pretty bizarre.

I don't think it's bizarre from Brendan's perspective, I view it as bizarre from Kyle's POV. The way Kyle handled that presser really made me think he wasn't into it anymore and could see why that could impact Shanahan's thinking.

 

[L K]

Well, I really don't feel good about knowing that this wasn't a decisive action in order to affect meaningful change but was, instead, sort of everyone's second choice.

This is pretty bizarre.

This feels like an organization that doesn't know what to do next.  That gives me a lot of pause for concern.  They better sort this out quick but if this year is a mess Shanahan needs to be booted.  He's the guy who has been here through the entirety of this thing and it's his final say on decisions.

I am very concerned with the direction of the team now

 

[Kaberle15]

I don't like this move.

I don't know if Dubas would change a thing for the next year, but this year, he did everything that he could to make this team better.

They can say they were outplayed by a hot goalie, however, when you score only 2 goals, you basically can't give up any.

Also, Sheldon Keefe has always troble plauing Paul Maurice's teams and that was evident on this playoffs, again.

Glad that the Leafs sorted out, don't know who will step up as GM, but this needs to keep moving forward.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I don't think it's bizarre from Brendan's perspective, I view it as bizarre from Kyle's POV. The way Kyle handled that presser really made me think he wasn't into it anymore and could see why that could impact Shanahan's thinking.

I mean how is what Dubas said any different really from any other free agent (player) talking about how they need to discuss what their future plans are with their family before coming to any definite agreement. Should the Leafs end any contract negotiations they had with ROR even though they really want him back because he basically said the same thing?

 

[Kin]

Well, I really don't feel good about knowing that this wasn't a decisive action in order to affect meaningful change but was, instead, sort of everyone's second choice.

This is pretty bizarre.

I don't think it's bizarre from Brendan's perspective, I view it as bizarre from Kyle's POV. The way Kyle handled that presser really made me think he wasn't into it anymore and could see why that could impact Shanahan's thinking.

Even if that were true it's pretty strange to not come out and say something like "After an internal review of our options, we've decided to move on" but instead make it sound like you wish you could have the guy back.

 

[Kin]

I don't think it's bizarre from Brendan's perspective, I view it as bizarre from Kyle's POV. The way Kyle handled that presser really made me think he wasn't into it anymore and could see why that could impact Shanahan's thinking.

I mean how is what Dubas said any different really from any other free agent (player) talking about how they need to discuss what their future plans are with their family before coming to any definite agreement. Should the Leafs end any contract negotiations they had with ROR even though they really want him back because he basically said the same thing?

It's a little different in as much as, like it or not, Dubas doesn't have an off-season to lounge in the sun and re-charge but, instead, faces a very challenging off-season of scouting/negotiations but, yeah, he didn't say anything that should have trumped whatever he might have said privately to you.