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Kyle Dubas not returning as GM

Deebo said:
CarltonTheBear said:
Eric Tulsky or a Gillis/Gilman reunion.

Who is Gillis?

Mike Gillis, was a candidate to replace Fehr in the NHLPA and is still currently with them in some capacity. Laurence Gilman, been in the Leafs organization since 2018 first as an assistant GM but his current title is now "Senior Vice-President and Governor" with the Marlies. They were the GM/AGM duo for the Canucks between the Burke/Nonis and Benning eras. Seemed very much ahead of their time in running the Canucks then.
 
princedpw said:
There are a lot GMs, a lot of trades, and free agent signings where I think "wow, that's terrible."  Very few of Kyle's transactions are in that group.  Most of the time, at the time of the move, it looks pretty reasonable to me.

In the long sample sizes we get in the regular season, he looks pretty good.

In the short sample sizes of the playoffs, the leafs have failed.  However, ahead of those series, people don't usually say "I think the Leafs will lose this series because their GM has done a poor job building the team."

I can really only come up with two reasons the leafs have lost so often:  (1) luck, (2) some hidden variable I can't put my finger on (this is indistinguishable from luck from my vantagepoint but perhaps not from someone else's who is smarter).

That's a really roundabout way of saying that I can pick out many GMs who I think are worse than Kyle but I can't pick out any that I think are clearly more likely to succeed.  I hope such GMs are out there and that Shanahan picks well.  Or simply that the leafs get lucky.

I would have preferred to have fired Keefe.  He has more direct control over the outcomes. 

Who's to say he would've fired Keefe? Isn't he the only coach he's ever had? Red flag.
 
While I don't think the Leafs' failures in the playoffs lie at Dubas' feet, sometimes you just need a new voice/viewpoint/whatever to get a team over the hump. After enough time with an organization, GMs and coaches can get to the point where they can't see the forest for the trees, so to speak. I don't know if Dubas was at that point, but, I'm also not sure he wasn't too close to the situation to be able to make the difficult moves that might need to be made or identify the right unconventional/under the radar options that could push the team to the next level in the post season.

Here's hoping the next guy can - and that's it's not just another worn-out retread that's been floating from team to team for the past 15-20 years.
 
Bender said:
princedpw said:
There are a lot GMs, a lot of trades, and free agent signings where I think "wow, that's terrible."  Very few of Kyle's transactions are in that group.  Most of the time, at the time of the move, it looks pretty reasonable to me.

In the long sample sizes we get in the regular season, he looks pretty good.

In the short sample sizes of the playoffs, the leafs have failed.  However, ahead of those series, people don't usually say "I think the Leafs will lose this series because their GM has done a poor job building the team."

I can really only come up with two reasons the leafs have lost so often:  (1) luck, (2) some hidden variable I can't put my finger on (this is indistinguishable from luck from my vantagepoint but perhaps not from someone else's who is smarter).

That's a really roundabout way of saying that I can pick out many GMs who I think are worse than Kyle but I can't pick out any that I think are clearly more likely to succeed.  I hope such GMs are out there and that Shanahan picks well.  Or simply that the leafs get lucky.

I would have preferred to have fired Keefe.  He has more direct control over the outcomes. 

Who's to say he would've fired Keefe? Isn't he the only coach he's ever had? Red flag.

Which could very well be the hill that Dubas' Leafs GM career died on. 

I thought Kyle Dubas did an ok job.  At the end of the day this team is part of a multi-billion dollar conglomeration that is interested in winning.  We have heard different players say that everything is the best of the best in Toronto, all trappings and luxuries are taken to the next level.  MLSE is doing that to win, not just to make sure the players are not mad the toilet paper is too scratchy. 
 
CarltonTheBear said:
We'll have a new GM next season, almost certainly a new coach, and possibly see a member of the core 4 dealt. Times are changing. All cause the team didn't show up to game 3.

And rightfully so. Liked Kyle but mismanaged the core right from the start and unfortunately tried to fill in holes with other teams cast offs. Plus some deadline deals that wasted some picks which we have been thin on last few years. I understand that though gotta do what you think would put you over the top. Players are more to blame especially this year with the additions we got they should have had a better run. First change and hopefully more.
 
Rob said:
Bender said:
princedpw said:
There are a lot GMs, a lot of trades, and free agent signings where I think "wow, that's terrible."  Very few of Kyle's transactions are in that group.  Most of the time, at the time of the move, it looks pretty reasonable to me.

In the long sample sizes we get in the regular season, he looks pretty good.

In the short sample sizes of the playoffs, the leafs have failed.  However, ahead of those series, people don't usually say "I think the Leafs will lose this series because their GM has done a poor job building the team."

I can really only come up with two reasons the leafs have lost so often:  (1) luck, (2) some hidden variable I can't put my finger on (this is indistinguishable from luck from my vantagepoint but perhaps not from someone else's who is smarter).

That's a really roundabout way of saying that I can pick out many GMs who I think are worse than Kyle but I can't pick out any that I think are clearly more likely to succeed.  I hope such GMs are out there and that Shanahan picks well.  Or simply that the leafs get lucky.

I would have preferred to have fired Keefe.  He has more direct control over the outcomes. 

Who's to say he would've fired Keefe? Isn't he the only coach he's ever had? Red flag.

Which could very well be the hill that Dubas' Leafs GM career died on. 

I thought Kyle Dubas did an ok job.  At the end of the day this team is part of a multi-billion dollar conglomeration that is interested in winning.  We have heard different players say that everything is the best of the best in Toronto, all trappings and luxuries are taken to the next level.  MLSE is doing that to win, not just to make sure the players are not mad the toilet paper is too scratchy. 

Couldn't agree more. I have a feeling he overcorrected from the old guard in some ways.
 
azzurri63 said:
CarltonTheBear said:
We'll have a new GM next season, almost certainly a new coach, and possibly see a member of the core 4 dealt. Times are changing. All cause the team didn't show up to game 3.

And rightfully so. Liked Kyle but mismanaged the core right from the start and unfortunately tried to fill in holes with other teams cast offs. Plus some deadline deals that wasted some picks which we have been thin on last few years. I understand that though gotta do what you think would put you over the top. Players are more to blame especially this year with the additions we got they should have had a better run. First change and hopefully more.

Careful what you wish for.  We've been down the road of regime changes in the past and they never work out.  If they bring in the polar opposite of Dubas you'll be trading skill for toughness, welcome back 80s Leafs.
 
Even a rumour like that..you wonder what sort of autonomy he had. Like, could he have chosen to slow things down? Or not buy heavy at the deadline?
 
Zee said:
azzurri63 said:
CarltonTheBear said:
We'll have a new GM next season, almost certainly a new coach, and possibly see a member of the core 4 dealt. Times are changing. All cause the team didn't show up to game 3.

And rightfully so. Liked Kyle but mismanaged the core right from the start and unfortunately tried to fill in holes with other teams cast offs. Plus some deadline deals that wasted some picks which we have been thin on last few years. I understand that though gotta do what you think would put you over the top. Players are more to blame especially this year with the additions we got they should have had a better run. First change and hopefully more.

Careful what you wish for.  We've been down the road of regime changes in the past and they never work out.  If they bring in the polar opposite of Dubas you'll be trading skill for toughness, welcome back 80s Leafs.

What has worked in this era? A good regular season team. And?

I don't think anyone wants to go back to the 80s but something has to give at some point.
 
Nik said:
Even a rumour like that..you wonder what sort of autonomy he had. Like, could he have chosen to slow things down? Or not buy heavy at the deadline?

I mean, didn't you find it odd in the all or nothing doc the way he had to ask permission to trade the first from Shanny?

It could be as simple as not having someone looking over his shoulder all the time.

Either way, now I'm here for the juicy goss!
 
Speaking of juicy goss, let's see who the 'insiders' are stumping for
https://twitter.com/NHL_Watcher/status/1659609951155765249
Ah, the man known for taking great players and buying them out and/or shipping them off to more successful places
 
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