Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 3rd, 7:00pm - TSN4, TSN 1050

[Phileas Fogg]

On the positive front, the leafs were by far the better team in the 1st half of the game, only got the 1 pp, when I saw lots of opportunities for the refs to even up a few of those calls, and Engvall looks to me like he could easily be playing higher up in the lineup.

 

[Phileas Fogg]

And, don't forget that the best player on the team is coming back off of IR tomorrow.

 

[Guilt Trip]

This is not really too difficult to analyze.  Keefe can't wave a magic wand and make the defensemen better defensemen, or the forwards play defense better.  It'll take some different personnel on both sides.

Def. The D isn't good enough. CC and Rielly are not a top pairing.

Not sure why Keefe persists with that.  Put Rielly with Muzzin.  And Dubas needs to own it, the Ceci trade was a dud and he can't keep playing top minutes.

I would def use Muzz as the top guy. Not sure I'd pair him with Rielly tho. He's just not good enough. I'd actually be tempted to try CC with Muzz or just leave him with Holl. It can't be any worse. Maybe Dermott can go in the right side?
How about trading Hyman and calling up Liljegren and Sandin?

 

[Guilt Trip]

And, don't forget that the best player on the team is coming back off of IR tomorrow.

Who? Mackinnon wasn't on the IR

 

[Highlander]

On the positive front, the leafs were by far the better team in the 1st half of the game, only got the 1 pp, when I saw lots of opportunities for the refs to even up a few of those calls, and Engvall looks to me like he could easily be playing higher up in the lineup.

Engvall is a keeper

 

[ZBBM]

This is not really too difficult to analyze.  Keefe can't wave a magic wand and make the defensemen better defensemen, or the forwards play defense better.  It'll take some different personnel on both sides.

Def. The D isn't good enough. CC and Rielly are not a top pairing.

Not sure why Keefe persists with that.  Put Rielly with Muzzin.  And Dubas needs to own it, the Ceci trade was a dud and he can't keep playing top minutes.

I would def use Muzz as the top guy. Not sure I'd pair him with Rielly tho. He's just not good enough. I'd actually be tempted to try CC with Muzz or just leave him with Holl. It can't be any worse. Maybe Dermott can go in the right side?
How about trading Hyman and calling up Liljegren and Sandin?

Said the same thing earlier in the GDT.

Sandin and Liljegren are the future of the D.  I personally would move one of Barrie or Muzzin before the deadline, they aren't going to re-sign both and they absolutely can't let them go for nothing like they did JVR etc.

 

[azzurri63]

Thank god I missed the 3rd period.
Said it before Babcock needed to go. Mission accomplished.
Next step Dubas needs to make some changes. Change the makeup of this team. Need more toughness and guys that battle both ends of the ice.
The contracts Dubas handed out were a mistake.
Now we?ll see if he can fix it. I held off by saying this and questioned Matthews compete but maybe he needs to go. I?ve said kid has all the tools but not convinced with his compete and work ethic. Paying a guy almost 12 mill and definitely doesn?t bring it most nights. I?m disappointed in him quite honestly.
Change the makeup with this team as I said for 2-3 years now not a team to win in the playoffs.

Go ahead fire away everyone. I know most will but is what it is.

 

[Bates]

This is not really too difficult to analyze.  Keefe can't wave a magic wand and make the defensemen better defensemen, or the forwards play defense better.  It'll take some different personnel on both sides.

Def. The D isn't good enough. CC and Rielly are not a top pairing.

Not sure why Keefe persists with that.  Put Rielly with Muzzin.  And Dubas needs to own it, the Ceci trade was a dud and he can't keep playing top minutes.

I would def use Muzz as the top guy. Not sure I'd pair him with Rielly tho. He's just not good enough. I'd actually be tempted to try CC with Muzz or just leave him with Holl. It can't be any worse. Maybe Dermott can go in the right side?
How about trading Hyman and calling up Liljegren and Sandin?

Said the same thing earlier in the GDT.

Sandin and Liljegren are the future of the D.  I personally would move one of Barrie or Muzzin before the deadline, they aren't going to re-sign both and they absolutely can't let them go for nothing like they did JVR etc.

Need them both for the playoff run....hahaha I can't even write it without laughing.

 

[Guilt Trip]

This is not really too difficult to analyze.  Keefe can't wave a magic wand and make the defensemen better defensemen, or the forwards play defense better.  It'll take some different personnel on both sides.

Def. The D isn't good enough. CC and Rielly are not a top pairing.

Not sure why Keefe persists with that.  Put Rielly with Muzzin.  And Dubas needs to own it, the Ceci trade was a dud and he can't keep playing top minutes.

I would def use Muzz as the top guy. Not sure I'd pair him with Rielly tho. He's just not good enough. I'd actually be tempted to try CC with Muzz or just leave him with Holl. It can't be any worse. Maybe Dermott can go in the right side?
How about trading Hyman and calling up Liljegren and Sandin?

Said the same thing earlier in the GDT.

Sandin and Liljegren are the future of the D.  I personally would move one of Barrie or Muzzin before the deadline, they aren't going to re-sign both and they absolutely can't let them go for nothing like they did JVR etc.

Need them both for the playoff run....hahaha I can't even write it without laughing.

This could be our down year. Should have dumped Babs in the summer. Patience people.

 

[Bates]

This is not really too difficult to analyze.  Keefe can't wave a magic wand and make the defensemen better defensemen, or the forwards play defense better.  It'll take some different personnel on both sides.

Def. The D isn't good enough. CC and Rielly are not a top pairing.

Not sure why Keefe persists with that.  Put Rielly with Muzzin.  And Dubas needs to own it, the Ceci trade was a dud and he can't keep playing top minutes.

I would def use Muzz as the top guy. Not sure I'd pair him with Rielly tho. He's just not good enough. I'd actually be tempted to try CC with Muzz or just leave him with Holl. It can't be any worse. Maybe Dermott can go in the right side?
How about trading Hyman and calling up Liljegren and Sandin?

Said the same thing earlier in the GDT.

Sandin and Liljegren are the future of the D.  I personally would move one of Barrie or Muzzin before the deadline, they aren't going to re-sign both and they absolutely can't let them go for nothing like they did JVR etc.

Need them both for the playoff run....hahaha I can't even write it without laughing.

This could be our down year. Should have dumped Babs in the summer. Patience people.

I have patience but it's easy to start thinking these guys are who they keep showing us they are.

 

[Guilt Trip]

Thank god I missed the 3rd period.
Said it before Babcock needed to go. Mission accomplished.
Next step Dubas needs to make some changes. Change the makeup of this team. Need more toughness and guys that battle both ends of the ice.
The contracts Dubas handed out were a mistake.
Now we?ll see if he can fix it. I held off by saying this and questioned Matthews compete but maybe he needs to go. I?ve said kid has all the tools but not convinced with his compete and work ethic. Paying a guy almost 12 mill and definitely doesn?t bring it most nights. I?m disappointed in him quite honestly.
Change the makeup with this team as I said for 2-3 years now not a team to win in the playoffs.

Go ahead fire away everyone. I know most will but is what it is.

Trading a 22 year old with his talent would be a huge mistake. Let's see what happens now that Keefe has taken over. You can't change a mindset in a week or 2. He's had Babs in his ear for 3+ years. Just because he isn't where you think he should be doesn't mean he won't get there.

 

[Guilt Trip]

This is not really too difficult to analyze.  Keefe can't wave a magic wand and make the defensemen better defensemen, or the forwards play defense better.  It'll take some different personnel on both sides.

Def. The D isn't good enough. CC and Rielly are not a top pairing.

Not sure why Keefe persists with that.  Put Rielly with Muzzin.  And Dubas needs to own it, the Ceci trade was a dud and he can't keep playing top minutes.

I would def use Muzz as the top guy. Not sure I'd pair him with Rielly tho. He's just not good enough. I'd actually be tempted to try CC with Muzz or just leave him with Holl. It can't be any worse. Maybe Dermott can go in the right side?
How about trading Hyman and calling up Liljegren and Sandin?

Said the same thing earlier in the GDT.

Sandin and Liljegren are the future of the D.  I personally would move one of Barrie or Muzzin before the deadline, they aren't going to re-sign both and they absolutely can't let them go for nothing like they did JVR etc.

Need them both for the playoff run....hahaha I can't even write it without laughing.

This could be our down year. Should have dumped Babs in the summer. Patience people.

I have patience but it's easy to start thinking these guys are who they keep showing us they are.

Keefe's had 10 days or so? This is going to take time to get the right personnel on D and a system in place. Leafs get in trouble when they revert back to their old ways, ie, chasing.

 

[princedpw]

On the positive front, the leafs were by far the better team in the 1st half of the game, only got the 1 pp, when I saw lots of opportunities for the refs to even up a few of those calls

If the leafs can replicate that 1st period effort consistently, they will do well. Still, a bit of a downer that game.

 

[Guilt Trip]

On the positive front, the leafs were by far the better team in the 1st half of the game, only got the 1 pp, when I saw lots of opportunities for the refs to even up a few of those calls

If the leafs can replicate that 1st period effort consistently, they will do well. Still, a bit of a downer that game.

Absolutely. That's the style Keefe wants them to play. They got away from it after the 1st for whatever reason. Game was a downer but another positive is they were playing not so good and were still only down 1. Tomorrow should be interesting if Marner is back.

 

[Bates]

This is not really too difficult to analyze.  Keefe can't wave a magic wand and make the defensemen better defensemen, or the forwards play defense better.  It'll take some different personnel on both sides.

Def. The D isn't good enough. CC and Rielly are not a top pairing.

Not sure why Keefe persists with that.  Put Rielly with Muzzin.  And Dubas needs to own it, the Ceci trade was a dud and he can't keep playing top minutes.

I would def use Muzz as the top guy. Not sure I'd pair him with Rielly tho. He's just not good enough. I'd actually be tempted to try CC with Muzz or just leave him with Holl. It can't be any worse. Maybe Dermott can go in the right side?
How about trading Hyman and calling up Liljegren and Sandin?

Said the same thing earlier in the GDT.

Sandin and Liljegren are the future of the D.  I personally would move one of Barrie or Muzzin before the deadline, they aren't going to re-sign both and they absolutely can't let them go for nothing like they did JVR etc.

Need them both for the playoff run....hahaha I can't even write it without laughing.

This could be our down year. Should have dumped Babs in the summer. Patience people.

I have patience but it's easy to start thinking these guys are who they keep showing us they are.

Keefe's had 10 days or so? This is going to take time to get the right personnel on D and a system in place. Leafs get in trouble when they revert back to their old ways, ie, chasing.

I'm just as sure you can teach heart or effort? Maybe some guys are just happy to be pro athletes and get a few points with winning not really being a priority?

 

[Guilt Trip]

This is not really too difficult to analyze.  Keefe can't wave a magic wand and make the defensemen better defensemen, or the forwards play defense better.  It'll take some different personnel on both sides.

Def. The D isn't good enough. CC and Rielly are not a top pairing.

Not sure why Keefe persists with that.  Put Rielly with Muzzin.  And Dubas needs to own it, the Ceci trade was a dud and he can't keep playing top minutes.

I would def use Muzz as the top guy. Not sure I'd pair him with Rielly tho. He's just not good enough. I'd actually be tempted to try CC with Muzz or just leave him with Holl. It can't be any worse. Maybe Dermott can go in the right side?
How about trading Hyman and calling up Liljegren and Sandin?

Said the same thing earlier in the GDT.

Sandin and Liljegren are the future of the D.  I personally would move one of Barrie or Muzzin before the deadline, they aren't going to re-sign both and they absolutely can't let them go for nothing like they did JVR etc.

Need them both for the playoff run....hahaha I can't even write it without laughing.

This could be our down year. Should have dumped Babs in the summer. Patience people.

I have patience but it's easy to start thinking these guys are who they keep showing us they are.

Keefe's had 10 days or so? This is going to take time to get the right personnel on D and a system in place. Leafs get in trouble when they revert back to their old ways, ie, chasing.

I'm just as sure you can teach heart or effort? Maybe some guys are just happy to be pro athletes and get a few points with winning not really being a priority?

Don't buy it. These guys are pro athletes. They don't think that way. Leafs are trying and have heart. Issue is in the execution. 1st period was great minus the turnovers.

 

[Bates]

This is not really too difficult to analyze.  Keefe can't wave a magic wand and make the defensemen better defensemen, or the forwards play defense better.  It'll take some different personnel on both sides.

Def. The D isn't good enough. CC and Rielly are not a top pairing.

Not sure why Keefe persists with that.  Put Rielly with Muzzin.  And Dubas needs to own it, the Ceci trade was a dud and he can't keep playing top minutes.

I would def use Muzz as the top guy. Not sure I'd pair him with Rielly tho. He's just not good enough. I'd actually be tempted to try CC with Muzz or just leave him with Holl. It can't be any worse. Maybe Dermott can go in the right side?
How about trading Hyman and calling up Liljegren and Sandin?

Said the same thing earlier in the GDT.

Sandin and Liljegren are the future of the D.  I personally would move one of Barrie or Muzzin before the deadline, they aren't going to re-sign both and they absolutely can't let them go for nothing like they did JVR etc.

Need them both for the playoff run....hahaha I can't even write it without laughing.

This could be our down year. Should have dumped Babs in the summer. Patience people.

I have patience but it's easy to start thinking these guys are who they keep showing us they are.

Keefe's had 10 days or so? This is going to take time to get the right personnel on D and a system in place. Leafs get in trouble when they revert back to their old ways, ie, chasing.

I'm just as sure you can teach heart or effort? Maybe some guys are just happy to be pro athletes and get a few points with winning not really being a priority?

Don't buy it. These guys are pro athletes. They don't think that way. Leafs are trying and have heart. Issue is in the execution. 1st period was great minus the turnovers.

So you believe that every player is willing to take the same level of pain that it takes to do the dirty work to win? To fight through fatigue and discomfort? These things can't be measured but can easily be seen. We watched it tonight on numerous occasions. 

 

[Guilt Trip]

This is not really too difficult to analyze.  Keefe can't wave a magic wand and make the defensemen better defensemen, or the forwards play defense better.  It'll take some different personnel on both sides.

Def. The D isn't good enough. CC and Rielly are not a top pairing.

Not sure why Keefe persists with that.  Put Rielly with Muzzin.  And Dubas needs to own it, the Ceci trade was a dud and he can't keep playing top minutes.

I would def use Muzz as the top guy. Not sure I'd pair him with Rielly tho. He's just not good enough. I'd actually be tempted to try CC with Muzz or just leave him with Holl. It can't be any worse. Maybe Dermott can go in the right side?
How about trading Hyman and calling up Liljegren and Sandin?

Said the same thing earlier in the GDT.

Sandin and Liljegren are the future of the D.  I personally would move one of Barrie or Muzzin before the deadline, they aren't going to re-sign both and they absolutely can't let them go for nothing like they did JVR etc.

Need them both for the playoff run....hahaha I can't even write it without laughing.

This could be our down year. Should have dumped Babs in the summer. Patience people.

I have patience but it's easy to start thinking these guys are who they keep showing us they are.

Keefe's had 10 days or so? This is going to take time to get the right personnel on D and a system in place. Leafs get in trouble when they revert back to their old ways, ie, chasing.

I'm just as sure you can teach heart or effort? Maybe some guys are just happy to be pro athletes and get a few points with winning not really being a priority?

Don't buy it. These guys are pro athletes. They don't think that way. Leafs are trying and have heart. Issue is in the execution. 1st period was great minus the turnovers.

So you believe that every player is willing to take the same level of pain that it takes to do the dirty work to win? To fight through fatigue and discomfort? These things can't be measured but can easily be seen. We watched it tonight on numerous occasions. 

You can say that about every single team. We have no idea what any of these guys are going through on a daily basis pain wise. Sometimes you just don't have your fastball or games go off the rails. Let's see how they respond tomorrow. They should be ready to go. I'd start Freddie.

 

[azzurri63]

Must admit there are a lot of you on this site who stick up for this bunch. Kudos to you but sorry to say your as stubborn and blind as management.

Babcock was a problem. Gone.

Grit, compete, passion, defensive play all are a problem and have been for a long time but Dubas doesn?t get that.

Too many fast skilled players. That?s great but that?s all they bring to the table.

Top money for players who show up when they feel like it.

Dubas needs to wake up. I liked when they gave him the job but his assessment of players and caving in to contract demands has hurt this team.

I personally think they it?s going to be a fight to make the playoffs so blow it up. Get rid of some of these floaters. Trade Muzzin, Barrie, Ceci who they shouldn?t of even signed get something back not like past years where we let guys walk for f all.
Call up the 2 young defence man and let them make their mistakes this year and hopefully be better next year.

Balance this team with a mixture of players and see what happens.

I like some of the things Keefe has incorporated compared to Babcock but the makeup of this team needs to change. Roster now isn?t going to cut it.

 

[Arn]

Engvall is a keeper

And a better one than Hutchinson  ;D