Leafs name Peter Horachek and Steve Spott assistant coaches.
- Thread starter GhostofPotvin29
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GhostofPotvin29
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CarltonTheBear said:
I like how I saw it mentioned that this would help Clarkson. He had 39 points in 55 games as a 19-20 year old and only barely was above a PPG as an overager in the OHL.
OldTimeHockey
Active member
Potvin29 said:
No one is saying he's going to blow the doors off the place, but if any familiarity makes him even slightly better than last season, I'm all for it.
bustaheims
Active member
Bullfrog said:
Me too. I much prefer the part of hockey that's actually hockey.
Wendel's Fist
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Where do you guys draw the line with that though? Do you not dress anyone tough and pretend like the other team isn't going to nail your star player? Then when they do, what are you supposed to do?..................Score more or something when they keep smashing you around the ice?
Some of you guys make it sound like you'd be happy to watch the NFL if it were two hand touch and a guy yelling out 5 steamboats before he went to touch the quarterback with both hands.
You'd really be able to see the true NFL talent that way but I don't know if it's all that entertaining.
Some of you guys make it sound like you'd be happy to watch the NFL if it were two hand touch and a guy yelling out 5 steamboats before he went to touch the quarterback with both hands.
You'd really be able to see the true NFL talent that way but I don't know if it's all that entertaining.
bustaheims
Active member
Wendel's Fist said:
Well, first and foremost - goons don't provide hockey-related toughness, they provide fighting. They are very very different things. Secondly, they also do nothing to prevent players on the other team from taking cheap shots. If someone on the other team is going to take a run at your star player, they're going to do it regardless. Your goon isn't on the ice when your star players are, so, they're not there to stop anything. Also, their presence isn't going to do anything to change it, either. Cheap shots aren't pre-planned. They're in the moment things. There isn't time for the player delivering the hit to think about who the other team has on the bench. And, players that are going to take cheap shots are going to do so no matter who is on the bench, because, they know they're not the ones who are ultimately going to pay the price for it. They're either going to not fight or they're perfectly comfortable fighting. There's absolutely zero preventative value in having a guy who can't do anything but throw punches in your lineup. There's no hockey related value in them at all. Lots of teams don't dress heavyweights, and they're not being "smashed around the ice" or anything like that. In fact, quite often, they're very successful. Both the Kings and the Rangers were in the bottom 1/3 of the league in fighting majors this season. Same with Chicago and Pittsburgh. Heck, the Wings had a league low 7 fights this past season, and they weren't physically dominated to the point where they couldn't be successful.
No one is saying you shouldn't have players who are capable of playing a tough, physical game. It's that you shouldn't have guys who can only contribute with their fists. They provide nothing that helps teams win games or protect their players.
Wendel's Fist said:
This kind of argument just doesn't hold up when you start thinking about it.
Orr never, ever plays with Kessel. So, on any of Kessel's shifts, in any game, a goon from the other team could go on the ice and take out Kessel and there is nothing Orr could do about it.
... but, but, but then Orr could come out and (1) beat up the best player on the other team, or (2) beat up the goon who attacked Kessel ...
The rebuttal is: (1) the best players on most teams are not big fighters and can be beaten up by many players, (2) fights between heavyweights occur all the time and don't seem to scare the heavyweights in to not fighting the next game so why would another fight scare a heavyweight in to not attacking a star?
But most of all, there are teams that play without goons in the NHL and their stars don't get destroyed. They just don't. See Detroit for ages and ages ...
Wendel's Fist
New member
I was going to make a long reply about goons and whatever but I'm too bored with this team to give a crap about a two day argument.
No matter what's said here, it's going to be another year of pulling within a goal to tie it at the last minute and almost making the playoffs. I'm too excited about that to respond more. Let me catch my breath before October.
Carry on and God Bless.
No matter what's said here, it's going to be another year of pulling within a goal to tie it at the last minute and almost making the playoffs. I'm too excited about that to respond more. Let me catch my breath before October.
Carry on and God Bless.
hockeyfan1
New member
Goons are and have become dangerously close to extinction. There was a time when having enforcers was de riguer, during those days of violent Philly Flyer Broadstreet Bullies era, but that was a long, long time ago.
Circa to today where physical hockey is still in existence (and why shouldn't it be!) but without the thuggery required.
Can someone please tell Randy Carlyle (re: Orr & McLaren). While many appreciate the sacrifices Orr and McLaren made for the team in using their fists when called upon, their statistical non-contributions & positions on the team make such players redundant.
Circa to today where physical hockey is still in existence (and why shouldn't it be!) but without the thuggery required.
Can someone please tell Randy Carlyle (re: Orr & McLaren). While many appreciate the sacrifices Orr and McLaren made for the team in using their fists when called upon, their statistical non-contributions & positions on the team make such players redundant.
Kin
New member
Wendel's Fist said:
Other people have already talked about the actual value of fighters to a team but I just want to highlight what I think is, at the very least, something honest about what you're saying. I think there's no real argument to be made that dressing a goon helps a team but there is a legitimate point to be made that fights can be entertaining and the sub-culture that they come with is not only tied to the fabric of the game but also composes compelling narratives.
The problem though is that it's not the 80's any more. While there are a handful of good fights a year everyone is so big and fights so defensively nowadays(for good reason) that most fights are 40 second wrestling matches with a handful of weak punches and missed haymakers thrown in. The league is never going to change the rules to allow for the kind of crazy fights we used to see for liability purposes so honestly, even the entertainment factor is largely disappearing from fighting.
The league is probably never going to get rid of the genuine, impromptu sort of Clark-Mcsorley fights but the days of Probert and Domi are over and I'm saying that as someone who liked watching Probert and Domi fight.
showmethemoneyman
New member
Hopefully we can get back to the days of tiger williams , george ferguson , where our policeman was expected to contribute 20 goals or so as well as ride shotgun protecting the smaller skill players
WhatIfGodWasALeaf
Active member
showmethemoneyman said:
That is an ideal scenario in my opinion, unfortunately those guys are worth their weight in gold in this league and are hard to come across.
Lucic is one of the few remaining who can come close to playing that type of game.
WhatIfGodWasALeaf
Active member
How Carlyle Killed Possession
I hope Spott and Horachek can help bring these numbers back up.
The Positive Effect Horachek had in Florida
I hope Spott and Horachek can help bring these numbers back up.
The Positive Effect Horachek had in Florida