Line-up changes

[maplesyrup]

Something wrong with putting a puck or two in himself? You think that's me asking to much of him?

For someone who's never really be a particularly prolific goal-scorer himself, who is clearly taking the defensive responsibilities of a 3rd line centre very seriously? Yeah, it might be, because, it's pretty much asking him to be something he's not. On the offensive side of the puck, he's a set-up guy, not a finisher.

One or two, busta over 15+ games... I don't think that's unreasonable regardless of how he's helping or in this case, not helping his line mates. 

 

[azzurri63]

Well I'll throw my 2 cents in on this one. First of all I think Connolly has boatloads of talent but too soft and too brittle for my liking. We're stuck with him because again Burke missed out on the big prize and had to settle for second helpings. No different when he first came in. We sucked and he had to do something and signed Beauchemin and Komi which again were 2 poor signings. The signings were one thing but the amount we paid for these 3 individuals was a joke. None of them deserved what they got and I give credit to Burke for shuffling off Beauchemin but he will be hard pressed to get rid of the other 2. As far as his move to the wing on the second line. Don't think it's justified with his play lately and he only has himself to blame. Busta I would have to disagree with one point you made and correct me if I'm wrong but I recall when IR Timmy first got hurt before the season started when he returned they threw him in the 1st line role so he was given his chance. Didn't work as personally I feel he didn't have the wheels to keep up. Kuli has been a disappointment after last season but the hustle is there game in game out unfortunately the puck has not gone in. Wilson's answer today was the move was made to get both players going. How he figures Kuli is going to get going buried on the third line is beyond me. You could argue with his production if he deserves to be top 6 but he deserves it in my opinion more than Connolly. Hopefully it works out and helps the team because that's the bottom line.

 

[Tigger]

He isn't but you know what is completely in his control? His play. Rather than stink up the past 15+ games, he could have cowboyed-up and done something... anything. That's what good players do.... and you just like Connolly because he's bald. 

So, he's magically supposed to be able to turn a career AHLer and a guy coming back from a major concussion and a serious shoulder injury into scoring threats? And, you don't think that's asking for a little much? As for the rest of how people think he's been playing over the past 15 games or so, I just don't agree. He may have not done anything that's obvious, but, he's almost always in good defensive position, he's played big minutes on what has been a very successful PK over that time and has done all that he can to try to create some offence. It's really no coincidence that the last couple weeks have seen Lombardi look like he could legitimately contribute to this team - that's due, in part, to Connolly. Hair or no hair, Connolly just hasn't been as bad as you're making him out to be.

Couldn't agree more busta. The notion of trading Connolly for Blake is a pretty crude and ill-considered rendition to me, fwiw.

 

[bustaheims]

One or two, busta over 15+ games... I don't think that's unreasonable regardless of how he's helping or in this case, not helping his line mates.

So, we're basically, we're down to "if he's not producing offensively, he's useless and I want him off the team?" Because, really, that's pretty much the only argument you're making here.

 

[maplesyrup]

One or two, busta over 15+ games... I don't think that's unreasonable regardless of how he's helping or in this case, not helping his line mates.

So, we're basically, we're down to "if he's not producing offensively, he's useless and I want him off the team?" Because, really, that's pretty much the only argument you're making here.

No. I've made it pretty clear that I don't see him doing much else on the other side of the puck either. I actually think the reason why the PK has been better of late is twofold. 1. Better goaltending (though we didn't see it on Saturday.) and 2. More poised play from the defence while short handed. I honestly think you're giving Connolly far too much credit of the Leafs (recent) success on the PK.

 

[bustaheims]

No. I've made it pretty clear that I don't see him doing much else on the other side of the puck either. I actually think the reason why the PK has been better of late is twofold. 1. Better goaltending (though we didn't see it on Saturday.) and 2. More poised play from the defence while short handed. I honestly think you're giving Connolly far too much credit of the Leafs (recent) success on the PK.

And, clearly, I think you're not giving him enough, and, considering the amount of ice time he gets there and his recent potential promotion to the 2nd line, the coaching staff, who have a much better view of what's going on and a better handle of individual performances, appears to agree with me.

 

[TML fan]

One or two, busta over 15+ games... I don't think that's unreasonable regardless of how he's helping or in this case, not helping his line mates.

So, we're basically, we're down to "if he's not producing offensively, he's useless and I want him off the team?" Because, really, that's pretty much the only argument you're making here.

He has 1 goal, 7 assists and is -4 in his last 20 games. I'll give him the credit he's due for his role on the PK, but that's not nearly enough to offset how useless he's been with the remainder of his minutes played.

 

[maplesyrup]

No. I've made it pretty clear that I don't see him doing much else on the other side of the puck either. I actually think the reason why the PK has been better of late is twofold. 1. Better goaltending (though we didn't see it on Saturday.) and 2. More poised play from the defence while short handed. I honestly think you're giving Connolly far too much credit of the Leafs (recent) success on the PK.

And, clearly, I think you're not giving him enough, and, considering the amount of ice time he gets there and his recent potential promotion to the 2nd line, the coaching staff, who have a much better view of what's going on and a better handle of individual performances, appears to agree with me.

Yup... He was performing so well at his position, they decided to remove him from it!

 

[CarltonTheBear]

No. I've made it pretty clear that I don't see him doing much else on the other side of the puck either. I actually think the reason why the PK has been better of late is twofold. 1. Better goaltending (though we didn't see it on Saturday.) and 2. More poised play from the defence while short handed. I honestly think you're giving Connolly far too much credit of the Leafs (recent) success on the PK.

And, clearly, I think you're not giving him enough, and, considering the amount of ice time he gets there and his recent potential promotion to the 2nd line, the coaching staff, who have a much better view of what's going on and a better handle of individual performances, appears to agree with me.

Yup... He was performing so well at his position, they decided to remove him from it!

Wow. Sorry Sarge, your hate for Connolly is unreal. Who makes going from 3rd line centre to 2nd line winger a bad thing?

edit: 1000 posts

 

[Tigger]

Wilson has described Connolly as one of his better penalty killing forwards and that he's very responsible defensively at even strength too. The team has played better in that regard recently but the coach has made note of him in particular and I agree with him.

That he is contributing to team success currently is seemingly lost in translation, sure he hasn't scored a goal in that stretch but the Leafs didn't need him to for the most part, his linemates aren't rich in the goal scoring department to begin with ( never Connolly's strong suit either ) while also being asked to be mindful defensively which they've generally done.

The only line without a minus in the last game...

...and right, being moved up a line is a demotion...

 

[maplesyrup]

Wow. Sorry Sarge, your hate for Connolly is unreal. Who makes going from 3rd line centre to 2nd line winger a bad thing?

edit: 1000 posts

Well, he better make the most of it. I think the coaching staff is throwing him a large bone here because in my opinion, he's not there on merit.

 

[TML fan]

I think the reason Connolly hasn't been asked to produce more offensively is because Wilson has been content to let the top line carry the load because they've been so good at it this year. With Grabovski and MacArthur picking it up lately, it's lessened that burden even more. They wanted to have 3 scoring lines this season and the fact is that they did not get what they expected out of Kulemin and Frattin (and to a lesser extent, Grabovski and MacArthur, who have been a bit inconsistent this season). I think they are starting to feel a pressing need for secondary scoring and that's why Connolly is now being bumped up into this role. They want to have at least two lines going on a consistent basis.

In my opinion, the Leafs' defense is based on their attack and if they can't maintain constant pressure, they are going to be forced into playing a game they don't want to play, or can't play well enough to win on most nights (much of which is do to their wildly inconsistent goaltending).

 

[maplesyrup]

Anyhoo, that was fun.  : Look, I hope it works out for Connolly because it might mean it's working out for the Leafs. So I'm clear, he's a Maple Leaf so I can't hate him... I'll be cheering for him to light it up with Mac and Grabs. 

 

[Bender]

You know, I feel this goes beyond Connolly. There's a few players underachieving for their payroll. I don't see why Connolly gets singled out here. It's kinda like when he got injured it was OH, CONNOLLY IS MADE OF GLASS. Then Armstrong gets injured for the billionth time and nobody cares.

There's absolutely no reason for you to single him out without looking at underachievement as a whole with the team.

But even then, I don't think he's one of the worst players on the team and is in no way worse than Blake. Man, you must really have a short term memory if you forgot how absolutely atrociously bad Blake was at everything (except his first year where he was half decent).

Firstly, we all knew Connolly was plagued with a variety of things before we signed him. When we signed Armstrong, he had a history of being quite durable so I don't see a relation there. Secondly, I point to Blake partly because I recall all the slack he got (deservingly so) from thousands of Leaf fans but the reality of the situation is that Connolly doesn't bring much more to the table than Blake did and now I'm getting slammed here for pointing to Connolly as my least favourite Leaf? I don't get it. Actually, due to the contract status, if Murray offered me Blake for Connolly right now, I'd be all over it.

The past isn't as relevant to their current time spent with the Leafs. What's happening is Connolly is getting railroaded for being injury prone, when Armstrong has been far more injury prone this year. You can't deny it that Colby was given tons and tons of slack for being injured while Connolly got jumped on. So what he has a history of injuries? He's still been less injured than a bunch of other players, and yet he gets singled out as being made out of glass.

This is my point: The slack for Connolly is far tighter than on other players who bring "grit" and other buzzwords.

And like I said, which you have yet to address, why is Connolly getting singled out when the "team" sans PK, JL and Grabs are producing?

You would actually trade a 31 year old Connolly for a 39 Year old Jason Blake? The same guy who had 32pts last year? The same guy who's been injured for the majority of this year? The same guy who is small, gets bumped off the puck, who's only move is to skate around the net and miss, who is a complete defensive black hole? For almost the same money??

Again, you can criticize him all you want, and that's fine, but when you'd rather have Jason "Old Man" Blake over TC then, and I mean this in the nicest possible way, then your criticism goes from pointed to completely irrational.

 

[Bender]

Wow. Sorry Sarge, your hate for Connolly is unreal. Who makes going from 3rd line centre to 2nd line winger a bad thing?

edit: 1000 posts

Well, he better make the most of it. I think the coaching staff is throwing him a large bone here because in my opinion, he's not there on merit.

Because Kulemin has been producing up to his standards, right?

This is what I meant when there are other players on the team that are underproducing as well. Over focusing on TC isn't really fair, especially when there is no comparison made to other players on the team who aren't producing either.

Kulemin, Lombardi, MacArthur, Connolly, Armstrong are all either having rough years or are under producing. To point to Connolly only doesn't make much sense to me.

 

[lamajama]

Wow. Sorry Sarge, your hate for Connolly is unreal. Who makes going from 3rd line centre to 2nd line winger a bad thing?

edit: 1000 posts

Well, he better make the most of it. I think the coaching staff is throwing him a large bone here because in my opinion, he's not there on merit.

Because Kulemin has been producing up to his standards, right?

This is what I meant when there are other players on the team that are underproducing as well. Over focusing on TC isn't really fair, especially when there is no comparison made to other players on the team who aren't producing either.

Kulemin, Lombardi, MacArthur, Connolly, Armstrong are all either having rough years or are under producing. To point to Connolly only doesn't make much sense to me.

I agree with your general point but IMO Connolly has been all but a ghost. Kulemin as an example is noticed every game for at least attempts to score as well as some pretty nice defensive efforts. Connolly? Not so much.

 

[Bender]

Wow. Sorry Sarge, your hate for Connolly is unreal. Who makes going from 3rd line centre to 2nd line winger a bad thing?

edit: 1000 posts

Well, he better make the most of it. I think the coaching staff is throwing him a large bone here because in my opinion, he's not there on merit.

Because Kulemin has been producing up to his standards, right?

This is what I meant when there are other players on the team that are underproducing as well. Over focusing on TC isn't really fair, especially when there is no comparison made to other players on the team who aren't producing either.

Kulemin, Lombardi, MacArthur, Connolly, Armstrong are all either having rough years or are under producing. To point to Connolly only doesn't make much sense to me.

I agree with your general point but IMO Connolly has been all but a ghost. Kulemin as an example is noticed every game for at least attempts to score as well as some pretty nice defensive efforts. Connolly? Not so much.

Sure, but Connolly isn't a one trick pony "if he isn't scoring he's useless" player based on Busta's analysis of the PK. Kulemin is in the same spot as Frattin right now: Doing all the little things, but it doesn't really matter too much if he's not contributing. I think there's a bit too much emphasis placed on those kind of visual things. To me playing physical doesn't always mean you're playing well, and playing a quiet game doesn't mean you're playing poorly.

For me I think Kulemin has been more disappointing than Connolly.

 

[TML fan]

I would agree that Kulemin has been more disappointing, but i think he gets more slack because he is a player who has contributed for the team in the past.

Connolly on the other hand is a player who was sought after and signed with a specific purpose, and some feel that he has not lived up to those expectations. Where we know Kulemin is capable of more, i kind of see why Connolly wasnt very popular in Buffalo.

As i said above, Connolly deserves credit for his role on the pk, but he is just one player out of 8 or 10 guys who kill penalties. I dont think the Leafs are getting a great return on their investment and i think that is where the issues with Connolly lie.

 

[TML fan]

Just to clarify, by not getting a great return on their investment, i meant in terms of expectations. For the record, I'm not one to care about the financial aspect of the game, but some might take issue with that. My personal beef with Connolly is that the team needs more scoring threats and Connolly hasnt contributed enough in that regard. Wilson feels that Connolly is a guy who can elevate the play of others and so far he has been a disappointment in that regard.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Wow. Sorry Sarge, your hate for Connolly is unreal. Who makes going from 3rd line centre to 2nd line winger a bad thing?

edit: 1000 posts

Well, he better make the most of it. I think the coaching staff is throwing him a large bone here because in my opinion, he's not there on merit.

Because Kulemin has been producing up to his standards, right?

This is what I meant when there are other players on the team that are underproducing as well. Over focusing on TC isn't really fair, especially when there is no comparison made to other players on the team who aren't producing either.

Kulemin, Lombardi, MacArthur, Connolly, Armstrong are all either having rough years or are under producing. To point to Connolly only doesn't make much sense to me.

I agree with your general point but IMO Connolly has been all but a ghost. Kulemin as an example is noticed every game for at least attempts to score as well as some pretty nice defensive efforts. Connolly? Not so much.

Sure, but Connolly isn't a one trick pony "if he isn't scoring he's useless" player based on Busta's analysis of the PK. Kulemin is in the same spot as Frattin right now: Doing all the little things, but it doesn't really matter too much if he's not contributing. I think there's a bit too much emphasis placed on those kind of visual things. To me playing physical doesn't always mean you're playing well, and playing a quiet game doesn't mean you're playing poorly.

For me I think Kulemin has been more disappointing than Connolly.

I think Kulemin is contributing though.  There have been so many plays resulting in goals for Grabovski or MacArthur where Kulemin doesn't get an assist but where he is the guy making the screen, or he did something else along the way.

In some cases, and this really requires watching the player every game, the stats mislead you - look at Gagner's 8 point night: one of his assists in that game was after he GAVE THE PUCK AWAY to Chicago, who then gave it away to the Edmonton D and then the D scored.  Gagner got an assist for giving the puck away.

Obviously just one example that you can't draw a big conclusion from, but just for emphasis.