Matt Martin signs with the Leafs [4 years, $2.5mil AAV]

[herman]

I think the lazy part is from a lot of people in the blogosphere screaming bloody murder when every move isn't a slam dunk.

I realise now my word choice with you was more confrontational than it needed to be, sorry about that.

There seems to be a knee-jerk reaction from a lot of well-read people whenever the team does something that they don't believe to be absolutely perfect.

I mean look at the work that has been done on the prospect pool alone in the past 18 months, they are now fairly widely regarded as having the deepest most talented prospect pool in the league.

At what point do they get even a fraction of benefit of the doubt?

Matt Martin on his worst day is a $1.5 million dollar headache if you bury him in the minors.

2% of the cap potentially and yet you have people reacting like they just dropped another Clarkson log in Leafs nation's mouth.

Do you think this management group made this commitment to Martin without any idea of what the team is going to look like going forward?

They clearly feel he has a skillset and a style of game that will add value to the bottom of the lineup and to answer your question, no I don't think the players you mentioned play the same game to the same level as Martin does. Babcock talks relentlessly about being heavy down low and Martin is one of the best in the league at that style of hard grinding game, if he gives you 10-12 minutes a night, but those are minutes that really wear opposition defences down and give the skilled guys in the lineup an extra second, isn't that worth it?

Add to all of this that we know that Michalek, Greening, Laich, Robidas and several others on expiring deals are likely to be gone sooner rather than later.

I'm absolutely fine with the deal and I think it's a small enough commitment, that even the management who themselves have conceded it's slightly more than they wanted to pay, deserve some slack.

I figured it was a response to the larger reaction in social media. No harm done and got some conversation going

I give this management team a lot of slack and credit, probably too much usually. This off season has been very odd, apart from some clear cut obviously good moves (Matthews). I credit them for largely staying out of the idiocy that was the first hour of free agency.

Martin has some favourable numbers to his game, and obviously plays in a way that will endear him to the fan base and teammates.

Draglikepull ?  ‏@draglikepull
Over the past two seasons Matt Martin has the 2nd best Corsi Against relative to his team in the league. Between Bergeron and D. Sedin.

Personally I thought it would be more valuable to completely stay out of bidding wars, and just pan the edges for cast off options on the cheap. I could envision existing players on our depth chart fulfilling a similar role (albeit to a lesser quality in certain aspects).

Without knowing their exact discussions, I suspect this is a concession 'gift' to Babcock, nominally approved by the analytics team, so that he has someone he can comfortably and consistently rely on to throw over the boards when he needs a D-zone shutdown. Lou's telling-not-telling words after the deal seem to indicate the group was pretty split on the decision but the opposing side didn't raise enough of a fuss to kibosh (probably because of the lowish cost).

 

[McGarnagle]

Case in point, anyone disputing McGarnagle's post is both wrong and borderline delusional frankly.

Nah, Herman is a bright guy, and I'm he and others have lots of valid rationale that I enjoy reading. I think the biggest thing about this site, is that if you don't appreciate counterpoint, you're in the wrroonnnnnng place.

 

[herman]

Poor value contracts: , Komarov

I dunno. I might have agreed that it was a little too much cash on the day he we signed, but I'd say any player that is a mainstay on the Finnish national team, plays up and down your lineup, chips in offensively, and gives a full effort/ is a pain to play against is worth a $2.9 hit. I'd say he's been more than full value.

Considering he's only slightly above Martin's 4th line hit, I'd now say it's a screaming deal by comparison.

Case in point, anyone disputing McGarnagle's post is both wrong and borderline delusional frankly.

Komarov was a late addition to my list. I love having him on the team. Maybe my valuation of what's worth it and what's not is a bit off, especially at the threshold area. I think he was playing way out of his level early in the season and basically disappeared at the end. In comparison to Martin's 2.5, yes Komarov is a steal due to that market shift.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

Case in point, anyone disputing McGarnagle's post is both wrong and borderline delusional frankly.

Nah, Herman is a bright guy, and I'm he and others have lots of valid rationale that I enjoy reading. I think the biggest thing about this site, is that if you don't appreciate counterpoint, you're in the wrroonnnnnng place.

Herman is a bright guy and I am certain that if he takes a step back, even he agrees that Komarov is not poor value, it was a poor grouping on his part.

Don't worry about me being in the wrong place bud, I've been here well over a decade and will be here for at least another.

 

[TBLeafer]

Our soon to be star rookies are now a little safer.  Throughout their entire ELC years.

Told you this off-season was going to be about term signings, not one year plugs.  One year plugs don't build a team.

Dubas still brought in enforcer types to the Marlies and I'm pretty sure, the SOO as well if you look at his rosters when he was the GM there.

 

[AtomicMapleLeaf]

Putting the pieces in place to sign our upcoming #2 center.  Isn't MM good friends with JT?  8)

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

Komarov was a late addition to my list. I love having him on the team. Maybe my valuation of what's worth it and what's not is a bit off, especially at the threshold area. I think he was playing way out of his level early in the season and basically disappeared at the end. In comparison to Martin's 2.5, yes Komarov is a steal due to that market shift.

Early in the season he was playing like an all-star, he settled back to around where he should be late in the season. A guy who plays the game as hard as Komarov does and will get you at least 20 points is going to make close to $3 million in the NHL.

Mike Johnson had a great comment yesterday and it's one that Steve Dangle has struggled with too on his podcast. People need to adjust to the reality that in todays NHL the salary breakdowns are roughly:

20pts - $2 Million
30pts - $3 Million
40pts - $4 Million
50pts - $5 Million

 

[herman]

Case in point, anyone disputing McGarnagle's post is both wrong and borderline delusional frankly.

Nah, Herman is a bright guy, and I'm he and others have lots of valid rationale that I enjoy reading. I think the biggest thing about this site, is that if you don't appreciate counterpoint, you're in the wrroonnnnnng place.

Herman is a bright guy and I am certain that if he takes a step back, even he agrees that Komarov is not poor value, it was a poor grouping on his part.

Don't worry about me being in the wrong place bud, I've been here well over a decade and will be here for at least another.

Thanks internet friends!
I had him on the list because I'm generally iffy about signing dedicated bottom 6 north of 2M where money is allocated to character. I do see the need for such players. I'm just a cheapskate about it.

 

[herman]

Komarov was a late addition to my list. I love having him on the team. Maybe my valuation of what's worth it and what's not is a bit off, especially at the threshold area. I think he was playing way out of his level early in the season and basically disappeared at the end. In comparison to Martin's 2.5, yes Komarov is a steal due to that market shift.

Early in the season he was playing like an all-star, he settled back to around where he should be late in the season. A guy who plays the game as hard as Komarov does and will get you at least 20 points is going to make close to $3 million in the NHL.

Mike Johnson had a great comment yesterday and it's one that Steve Dangle has struggled with too on his podcast. People need to adjust to the reality that in todays NHL the salary breakdowns are roughly:

20pts - $2 Million
30pts - $3 Million
40pts - $4 Million
50pts - $5 Million

I also struggle with current candy prices.

 

[TBLeafer]

Case in point, anyone disputing McGarnagle's post is both wrong and borderline delusional frankly.

Nah, Herman is a bright guy, and I'm he and others have lots of valid rationale that I enjoy reading. I think the biggest thing about this site, is that if you don't appreciate counterpoint, you're in the wrroonnnnnng place.

Herman is a bright guy and I am certain that if he takes a step back, even he agrees that Komarov is not poor value, it was a poor grouping on his part.

Don't worry about me being in the wrong place bud, I've been here well over a decade and will be here for at least another.

Thanks internet friends!
I had him on the list because I'm generally iffy about signing dedicated bottom 6 north of 2M where money is allocated to character. I do see the need for such players. I'm just a cheapskate about it.

Ah, so you are a miser...

We don't have any star level contracts to hand out for a while now.  The bad contracts will be nearly all cleared out when it comes time for star level contracts to be handed out now.

In the meantime, this is solid team building.  100% all skill players with no grit does not work and will not work.  Its still a man's league last time I checked.

 

[L K]

I had a more detailed post and then it logged me out of my account.  Essentially the Leafs have 74M in current roster commitments if they go with their existing team (with the four big rookies - Nylander, Zaitsev, Marner and Matthews) and a very conservative estimate of 5.0M to sign Marincin/Holland/Corrado.

It's just bad cap management to be running into cap overages at this stage of the game.  Yes, money comes off the books next year but this is still a relatively bad team that shouldn't be hitting the cap, especially when most of those contracts didn't come as part of a nice return for the team.

 

[L K]

Also, can we stop with the false narrative that 4th liners prevent people from getting hit hard angle.  It's not remotely true.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Also, can we stop with the false narrative that 4th liners prevent people from getting hit hard angle.  It's not remotely true.

I'm genuinely a little disappointed it's 2016 and some here are still falling for that argument. We've been through this before guys.

 

[TBLeafer]

Also, can we stop with the false narrative that 4th liners prevent people from getting hit hard angle.  It's not remotely true.

Who said anything about prevention.  I'm talking about consequences.

Didn't Backes just sign in Boston?  Do you like having Martin on your team if Backes starts after Kadri again?

 

[Deebo]

They are an issue, though. As I've brought up on a number of occasions, LTIR space cannot be used to cover performance bonuses, and the Leafs could have as much as $5.5M in potential performance bonuses on the roster this season.

In order to get to 5.5M, a bunch of rookies would have to have exceptional years. Realistically they might have to carry over a couple million and have over 22M in cheaply replaceable players coming off the cap and maybe 1 RFA who will get a significant raise in Zaitsev. They should be able to absorb it next year without going needing to use LTIR again unless they add some big contracts.

 

[L K]

Also, can we stop with the false narrative that 4th liners prevent people from getting hit hard angle.  It's not remotely true.

Who said anything about prevention.  I'm talking about consequences.

Didn't Backes just sign in Boston?  Do you like having Martin on your team if Backes starts after Kadri again?

No, because they are irrelevant.  Backes went after Kadri because Kadri was on the ice against him.  Last time I checked Backes doens't play on the 4th line.  This notion that players suddenly get scared and stop playing physical is what is ridiculous. 

 

[TBLeafer]

Also, can we stop with the false narrative that 4th liners prevent people from getting hit hard angle.  It's not remotely true.

Who said anything about prevention.  I'm talking about consequences.

Didn't Backes just sign in Boston?  Do you like having Martin on your team if Backes starts after Kadri again?

No, because they are irrelevant.  Backes went after Kadri because Kadri was on the ice against him.  Last time I checked Backes doens't play on the 4th line.  This notion that players suddenly get scared and stop playing physical is what is ridiculous.

Good think Martin can actually play the game a little then, too.

This was a good, calculated move whether or not you agree with it.

If players want to take cheap shots and liberties at our top talent, the next time that player takes a shift, Martin will be out on the ice against them and I'm okay with that because of his ability to also suppress shots against while he's out.

 

[Deebo]

I had a more detailed post and then it logged me out of my account.  Essentially the Leafs have 74M in current roster commitments if they go with their existing team (with the four big rookies - Nylander, Zaitsev, Marner and Matthews) and a very conservative estimate of 5.0M to sign Marincin/Holland/Corrado.

It's just bad cap management to be running into cap overages at this stage of the game.  Yes, money comes off the books next year but this is still a relatively bad team that shouldn't be hitting the cap, especially when most of those contracts didn't come as part of a nice return for the team.

They are up against the cap because of bad contracts they inherited (Lupul, Robidas) and short term contracts they took on to get out of a long term commitment (Greening, Cowen, Michalek) None of these deals have more than 2 years left on them.

They are tight against the cap for one more season, but long term they are in much better shape than they were when Shanahan took over.

 

[LuncheonMeat]

Also, can we stop with the false narrative that 4th liners prevent people from getting hit hard angle.  It's not remotely true.

Who said anything about prevention.  I'm talking about consequences.

Didn't Backes just sign in Boston?  Do you like having Martin on your team if Backes starts after Kadri again?

No, because they are irrelevant.  Backes went after Kadri because Kadri was on the ice against him.  Last time I checked Backes doens't play on the 4th line.  This notion that players suddenly get scared and stop playing physical is what is ridiculous.

Good think Martin can actually play the game a little then, too.

This was a good, calculated move whether or not you agree with it.

If players want to take cheap shots and liberties at our top talent, the next time that player takes a shift, Martin will be out on the ice against them and I'm okay with that because of his ability to also suppress shots against while he's out.

So Babcock is gonna send the tough guys out to extract justice every time someone on the other team is mean to his guys? That sounds like a winning strategy.

 

[Bill_Berg]

Also, can we stop with the false narrative that 4th liners prevent people from getting hit hard angle.  It's not remotely true.

Who said anything about prevention.  I'm talking about consequences.

Didn't Backes just sign in Boston?  Do you like having Martin on your team if Backes starts after Kadri again?

No, because they are irrelevant.  Backes went after Kadri because Kadri was on the ice against him.  Last time I checked Backes doens't play on the 4th line.  This notion that players suddenly get scared and stop playing physical is what is ridiculous.

Good think Martin can actually play the game a little then, too.

This was a good, calculated move whether or not you agree with it.

If players want to take cheap shots and liberties at our top talent, the next time that player takes a shift, Martin will be out on the ice against them and I'm okay with that because of his ability to also suppress shots against while he's out.

So Babcock is gonna send the tough guys out to extract justice every time someone on the other team is mean to his guys? That sounds like a winning strategy.

Does it have to be protection? Can't we have these guys so other teams stars can't do what they normally might do?

I know someone in the know said something about Martin allowing our stars to play their game, but those guys say lots of things. I took it as we have Martin to do some dirty work so other guys, like our future stars, don't have to do it.