Mitch Marner: what now?

[CarltonTheBear]

I still genuinely don't get this idea that Nylander walked all over Dubas in his negotiations. I said at the time that I thought Nylander got himself a very nice contract, mostly because I didn't think he'd get the type of signing bonuses that he did. But Dubas had him unsigned until literally minutes before the RFA deadline. No other GM has gotten even close to that. If that's not playing hardball I don't know what is. And the resulting contract was literally exactly where Matt "Director of Hockey Analytics for the New Jersey Devils" Cane's contract predictions said he would get on a 6-year deal. Forcing him to sit an entire season to try and save a few extra hundred thousand dollars on his AAV would have been insanely dumb.

 

[herman]

I just took a peek at Winnipeg and Montreal's defense groups and they are in worse shape right now than any of ours with Zaitsev, Hainsey, Polak. Lots of cap space though!

I value cap space as an asset, but there are also a very very finite number of players at each position that move the needle, and if you're managing a team that is fortunate enough to have one in the fold, it's so much better to keep those players happy so they can perform most optimally.

 

[herman]

I still genuinely don't get this idea that Nylander walked all over Dubas in his negotiations. I said at the time that I thought Nylander got himself a very nice contract, mostly because I didn't think he'd get the type of signing bonuses that he did. But Dubas had him unsigned until literally minutes before the RFA deadline. No other GM has gotten even close to that. If that's not playing hardball I don't know what is. And the resulting contract was literally exactly where Matt "Director of Hockey Analytics for the New Jersey Devils" Cane's contract predictions said he would get on a 6-year deal. Forcing him to sit an entire season to try and save a few extra hundred thousand dollars on his AAV would have been insanely dumb.

If anything, it was a mistake for Dubas to hardball that hard (and he said as much at the end of the season). Nylander would've taken the 6.9 at the beginning of the season and probably run up 80 pts on Matthews' wing and proven to be an immediate steal.

 

[Bates]

I just took a peek at Winnipeg and Montreal's defense groups and they are in worse shape right now than any of ours with Zaitsev, Hainsey, Polak. Lots of cap space though!

Winnipeg has Cap space on paper only, in reality they have a Cap crunch. Not much they could do about Trouba.

 

[herman]

I just took a peek at Winnipeg and Montreal's defense groups and they are in worse shape right now than any of ours with Zaitsev, Hainsey, Polak. Lots of cap space though!

Winnipeg has Cap space on paper only, in reality they have a Cap crunch. Not much they could do about Trouba.

How about trading their 30+ yr old Blake Wheeler, or 30 yr old Bryan Little when their value was highest knowing you had a crop of young stars on the rise in the wings and really no defensive depth after Trouba if Byfuglien is injured.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I just took a peek at Winnipeg and Montreal's defense groups and they are in worse shape right now than any of ours with Zaitsev, Hainsey, Polak. Lots of cap space though!

I wouldn't be surprised if Winnipeg was a wild card team this season. Especially if Hellebuyck doesn't get back to his Vezina-like numbers from 2 seasons ago.

 

[herman]

Winnipeg basically kept their not-quite-JvR and much-much-better-Bozak. I get that Wheeler and Little were lynchpins on the team when it struggled and carried them over that hump when Scheifele and Ehlers came to the fore, but that's foreseeable stuff with their contract expiries and you already know Laine and Connor and Trouba are good.

 

[Bates]

I just took a peek at Winnipeg and Montreal's defense groups and they are in worse shape right now than any of ours with Zaitsev, Hainsey, Polak. Lots of cap space though!

Winnipeg has Cap space on paper only, in reality they have a Cap crunch. Not much they could do about Trouba.

How about trading their 30+ yr old Blake Wheeler, or 30 yr old Bryan Little when their value was highest knowing you had a crop of young stars on the rise in the wings and really no defensive depth after Trouba if Byfuglien is injured.

Little was a bad contract on Day 1 so really not signing it was best course of action.  Hard to trade your Captain and one if tge 1st outsiders to commit to your City unless you really find him somewhere he wants to go. So you're saying sacrifice a good forward for some D help?  Like a Willy?

 

[herman]

Little was a bad contract on Day 1 so really not signing it was best course of action.  Hard to trade your Captain and one if tge 1st outsiders to commit to your City unless you really find him somewhere he wants to go. So you're saying sacrifice a good forward for some D help?  Like a Willy?

Sacrifice your 30+ year old with no room on the growth curve left to fill a need.

 

[Bates]

Little was a bad contract on Day 1 so really not signing it was best course of action.  Hard to trade your Captain and one if tge 1st outsiders to commit to your City unless you really find him somewhere he wants to go. So you're saying sacrifice a good forward for some D help?  Like a Willy?

Sacrifice your 30+ year old with no room on the growth curve left to fill a need.

Or in Willy's case, a just outside the core piece that you can do without but would garner plenty on the tradefront.

 

[herman]

Little was a bad contract on Day 1 so really not signing it was best course of action.  Hard to trade your Captain and one if tge 1st outsiders to commit to your City unless you really find him somewhere he wants to go. So you're saying sacrifice a good forward for some D help?  Like a Willy?

Sacrifice your 30+ year old with no room on the growth curve left to fill a need.

Or in Willy's case, a just outside the core piece that you can do without but would garner plenty on the tradefront.

If a young player will garner a lot on the trade front, perhaps you are misreading what a core player is. That?s how you get Taylor Hall for Adam Larsson.

 

[Kin]

"William Nylander is an inessential piece of the team asking for a contract he in no way deserves...but teams are going to be lining up to give the Leafs good value in a trade for him" is genuinely one of the dumber takes this website has seen.

 

[Redleaf]

You are looking at it right here right now. I'm playing the long game holding Cap hits so I can ice the best team every year with salaries held when I can. Tavares was signed when we had them. We would still have all 3 if we held strong in negotiations. The only one of the 3 we risked offer sheet from was Matthew's. If we had held to our $6 million or less for Nylander he would have signed last fall or this summer, I would have forced that issue. We are one of the few teams in the League that is just giving players what they want, it is unlikely to be successful

I actually don't see anything being done here.

Nothing would have to be done as the players in question have nowhere to go? We would have the same players right now plus some money to add.

What are their numbers? What would they possibly sign for at the negotiation deadline that makes realistic sense? They are otherwise not on the roster under your operating parameters.

Had Willie sat all last season I'm fairly confident his contract right now would be quite a bit less.

Or he would have signed a one year deal and demanded a trade ?

 

[Zee]

I'm back did I miss the Marner signing?

 

[herman]

William Nylander is squarely in the first line winger production tier while working in middle-six minutes. Super expendable.

 

[Bates]

"William Nylander is an inessential piece of the team asking for a contract he in no way deserves...but teams are going to be lining up to give the Leafs good value in a trade for him" is genuinely one of the dumber takes this website has seen.

I don't recall mentioning deserves?? But with an RFA the team has the ability to keep the salary lower to the benefit of the team. To not do so is not using your resources, just as I agreed with Cox about.

 

[Bates]

Little was a bad contract on Day 1 so really not signing it was best course of action.  Hard to trade your Captain and one if tge 1st outsiders to commit to your City unless you really find him somewhere he wants to go. So you're saying sacrifice a good forward for some D help?  Like a Willy?

Sacrifice your 30+ year old with no room on the growth curve left to fill a need.

Or in Willy's case, a just outside the core piece that you can do without but would garner plenty on the tradefront.

If a young player will garner a lot on the trade front, perhaps you are misreading what a core player is. That?s how you get Taylor Hall for Adam Larsson.

The player in question is at best 6th on the Leaf's core list.

 

[Bates]

You are looking at it right here right now. I'm playing the long game holding Cap hits so I can ice the best team every year with salaries held when I can. Tavares was signed when we had them. We would still have all 3 if we held strong in negotiations. The only one of the 3 we risked offer sheet from was Matthew's. If we had held to our $6 million or less for Nylander he would have signed last fall or this summer, I would have forced that issue. We are one of the few teams in the League that is just giving players what they want, it is unlikely to be successful

I actually don't see anything being done here.

Nothing would have to be done as the players in question have nowhere to go? We would have the same players right now plus some money to add.

What are their numbers? What would they possibly sign for at the negotiation deadline that makes realistic sense? They are otherwise not on the roster under your operating parameters.

Had Willie sat all last season I'm fairly confident his contract right now would be quite a bit less.

Or he would have signed a one year deal and demanded a trade ?

So, we only trade him if we like the return.

 

[Kin]

Or he would have signed a one year deal and demanded a trade ?

Or not have played at all. Or signed an offer sheet for the deal he eventually signed. The simple reality is that the Leafs had absolutely no control over what Nylander eventually did. They didn't know what effect his absence might have had on the rest of the team or how it would have affected their negotiations with Matthews and Marner.

It's only the most simplistic, ill-informed sort of reading of this situation that would see the Leafs as being definitely able to control the outcome here while simply disregarding the significant downsides that could have been a result of throwing a grenade into the team's progression. It's armchair quarterbacking by someone who doesn't understand the fundamentals of the position.

 

[disco]

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