Mitch Marner: what now?

[Strangelove]

Assists. He wasn't in the top 50 in goals scored and is in no way an above average defensive player, at least not yet.

Putting aside a disagreement about defense 26 goals, the vast majority of them at even strength, does not make him a bad goal scorer.

I didn't say he was a bad goal scorer. The main dimension to his game is being an elite playmaker/assister though.

 

[Joe S.]

Assists. He wasn't in the top 50 in goals scored and is in no way an above average defensive player, at least not yet.

Putting aside a disagreement about defense 26 goals, the vast majority of them at even strength, does not make him a bad goal scorer.

I didn't say he was a bad goal scorer. The main dimension to his game is being an elite playmaker/assister though.

Kinda like... oh I don?t know... maybe gilmour?

 

[Kin]

I didn't say he was a bad goal scorer.

Traditionally when people call someone a "one-dimensional player" they don't mean someone who's good at lots of things and elite at something else but someone who's actually bad at things besides their one dimension.

Marner's a very good goal scorer, elite playmaker and good enough defensively to be trusted with a penalty killing role in the playoffs. That's just not what a one-dimensional player is.

 

[Kin]

We will see how it all plays out but if it?s true he has turned down $11 million per and he holds out, he is a p.o.s. and I could honestly give two $hits about him as long as the trade return is good.

He's a free agent. He's not "holding out" from anything.

 

[Stebro]

If I were Mitch I would fire Ferris, get a new agent and sign.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

 

[herman]

Y'all read this yet?

http://faceoffcircle.ca/2019/09/11/the-mitch-marner-situation-is-rapidly-approaching-the-point-of-no-return/

 

[Zee]

I like to believe that age old quote, "it's always darkest before the dawn", and maybe the Mitchy deal gets done in the next day or so.  It's been pretty dark in the media the last 2 days

Y'all read this yet?

http://faceoffcircle.ca/2019/09/11/the-mitch-marner-situation-is-rapidly-approaching-the-point-of-no-return/

Good article.

 

[Strangelove]

Assists. He wasn't in the top 50 in goals scored and is in no way an above average defensive player, at least not yet.

Putting aside a disagreement about defense 26 goals, the vast majority of them at even strength, does not make him a bad goal scorer.

I didn't say he was a bad goal scorer. The main dimension to his game is being an elite playmaker/assister though.

Kinda like... oh I don?t know... maybe gilmour?

Ya. And Doug Gilmour wasn't demanding the highest AAV for an NHL winger after his third season.

 

[Strangelove]

Y'all read this yet?

http://faceoffcircle.ca/2019/09/11/the-mitch-marner-situation-is-rapidly-approaching-the-point-of-no-return/

This is the correct take.

 

[louisstamos]

Assists. He wasn't in the top 50 in goals scored and is in no way an above average defensive player, at least not yet.

Putting aside a disagreement about defense 26 goals, the vast majority of them at even strength, does not make him a bad goal scorer.

I didn't say he was a bad goal scorer. The main dimension to his game is being an elite playmaker/assister though.

Kinda like... oh I don?t know... maybe gilmour?

Ya. And Doug Gilmour wasn't demanding the highest AAV for an NHL winger after his third season.

Hilariously enough, Doug Gilmour came to the Leafs as a result of a contract dispute with the Flames and refusing to accept an arbitration ruling (back when arbitration rulings were done mid-season; how far we have come. lol).  So, stuff like this has been happening forever.

 

[Kin]

I'm not sure it would be a good strategy, what with some people harbouring the notion that the Leafs are contenders this year, but I do think it would be a fairly justified one for Dubas to call Marner's bet on not playing this season or playing in Europe. Yes, what happened with Nylander last year was ugly but I feel like the idea of Nylander playing in Europe was more of a thing he'd have been ok with. Likewise, if the end result was a Leafs trade, I think he'd have been fine with that too.

But if the Leafs don't like either the three year bridge Marner's group is proposing or the amount it would cost to get him signed longer term...wait him out. Sure, it could cost the team a playoff spot but realistically as sports fans we should be prepared for any of these guys to be gone for the year at a moment's notice due to injury. If Marner skips a year, it seems unlikely for him to ever make up the missed money on future deals and it would almost certainly ruin his relationship with the club. I feel like that puts Dubas in a pretty good position on November 30th.

 

[Zee]

I'm not sure it would be a good strategy, what with some people harbouring the notion that the Leafs are contenders this year, but I do think it would be a fairly justified one for Dubas to call Marner's bet on not playing this season or playing in Europe. Yes, what happened with Nylander last year was ugly but I feel like the idea of Nylander playing in Europe was more of a thing he'd have been ok with. Likewise, if the end result was a Leafs trade, I think he'd have been fine with that too.

But if the Leafs don't like either the three year bridge Marner's group is proposing or the amount it would cost to get him signed longer term...wait him out. Sure, it could cost the team a playoff spot but realistically as sports fans we should be prepared for any of these guys to be gone for the year at a moment's notice due to injury. If Marner skips a year, it seems unlikely for him to ever make up the missed money on future deals and it would almost certainly ruin his relationship with the club. I feel like that puts Dubas in a pretty good position on November 30th.

Just the thought of this going to November 30th gives me heart palpitations.

 

[Coco-puffs]

I'm not sure it would be a good strategy, what with some people harbouring the notion that the Leafs are contenders this year, but I do think it would be a fairly justified one for Dubas to call Marner's bet on not playing this season or playing in Europe. Yes, what happened with Nylander last year was ugly but I feel like the idea of Nylander playing in Europe was more of a thing he'd have been ok with. Likewise, if the end result was a Leafs trade, I think he'd have been fine with that too.

But if the Leafs don't like either the three year bridge Marner's group is proposing or the amount it would cost to get him signed longer term...wait him out. Sure, it could cost the team a playoff spot but realistically as sports fans we should be prepared for any of these guys to be gone for the year at a moment's notice due to injury. If Marner skips a year, it seems unlikely for him to ever make up the missed money on future deals and it would almost certainly ruin his relationship with the club. I feel like that puts Dubas in a pretty good position on November 30th.

Certainly, but the only way they can fit him in under the cap on November 30th is likely on a 1 year deal.  Maybe a 2 year one.  And then we have to deal with this all again in 4 months.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Certainly, but the only way they can fit him in under the cap on November 30th is likely on a 1 year deal.  Maybe a 2 year one.  And then we have to deal with this all again in 4 months.

Would kicking this just to next year even be a terrible idea at that point? Especially after Matthews win the Rocket and Mitch struggles to score at a 60 point pace after missing 3 months?

 

[Stebro]

Does he have to pass waivers when returning to Toronto if he were to sign with a european team?

 

[Kin]

Certainly, but the only way they can fit him in under the cap on November 30th is likely on a 1 year deal.  Maybe a 2 year one.  And then we have to deal with this all again in 4 months.

Sure but next time Dubas will have established that he's willing to go to the wire if Marner doesn't get into "let's make a deal" mode before the season. Marner could look for and actively solicit offer sheets next year but that would probably be better for the Leafs than another negotiation. Marner would establish his market value and Dubas then can decide if Marner's worth it or the team would rather have the space/RFA compensation.

If people think that Marner is going to sign a team friendly deal because he's a local kid then the team might have to really threaten to take that away from him. If he wants to go elsewhere, make him either prove he's worth elite money to another team or match the deal he does get. The right to match RFA offers is only a round in the chamber if you're occasionally willing to fire.

 

[Coco-puffs]

Certainly, but the only way they can fit him in under the cap on November 30th is likely on a 1 year deal.  Maybe a 2 year one.  And then we have to deal with this all again in 4 months.

Would kicking this just to next year even be a terrible idea at that point? Especially after Matthews win the Rocket and Mitch struggles to score at a 60 point pace after missing 3 months?

No, it doesn't seem like a bad idea actually.  If I'm the Leafs I'm not going to capitulate to his demands when this might work in our favour.

 

[Coco-puffs]

Does he have to pass waivers when returning to Toronto if he were to sign with a european team?

No, only if he signs and offer sheet with another team and the Leafs don't match.  Him signing with a european team basically rules out an offersheet.

 

[Zee]

Certainly, but the only way they can fit him in under the cap on November 30th is likely on a 1 year deal.  Maybe a 2 year one.  And then we have to deal with this all again in 4 months.

Would kicking this just to next year even be a terrible idea at that point? Especially after Matthews win the Rocket and Mitch struggles to score at a 60 point pace after missing 3 months?

Then it comes down to "how much for one year Mitch?"

"12 million"

"oh"