Official Tank Nation Topic
- Thread starter Kaberle15
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CarltonTheBear said:
I would even go as far as saying without a top-line stud Centre, a team will likely not win the Cup.
**Krejci, Bergeron (not studs but they had a stud d-man)
Toews (stud, no question about it)
Crosby
Datsyuk (arguably the best 2-way player in the league)
Getzlaf
Staal
Lecavalier, Richards
**Nieuwendyk, Gomez (when he was good)
Yzerman
Sakic, Forsberg
Those are the Centres of the last 10 Cup winners. In the case where I put asterisks, they are not what I consider "studs" but very good 1-2 punches.
That was my main beef with the Kessel deal. I love Kessel and have never cared about the amount dealt for him....my issue is and has always been that he landed an elite winger and didn't even have an above-average Centre for him to play with. In other words, the timing stunk.
I wonder if someone like Eric Staal is available? A guy who has been flying under the radar, not really blowing anyone away, has heard rumblings about being moved in the recent past, current team stinks. Seems like a guy who could use a change of scenery. Solid PPG player, big, can kill penalties. He's pretty bad on faceoffs but I could live with that.
bustaheims
Active member
Deebo said:
And, if they do, it certainly won't be at a price that makes the Leafs a better team with Staal than they were beforehand.
Sabres4now
New member
Sarge said:
Tough win last night. went from Lottery pick #5 to #7. Next win
and its #9.... :'(
I'm in the camp of getting the guy with the highest end potential that you can, no matter what position (except goal). In case of a tie, I'd pick center then defense then winger. The very most important thing is for the team to increase its high-end talent. If needed, it is far, far easier to balance out the distribution of talent by trading talent at one position for equal talent at another than it is to get more talent on to the team. You cant typically trade less talent for more talent -- you can't count on a mike Milbury (or whoever the Montreal GM was who made the horrendous Gomez trade) was to save your bacon.
Tigger said:
Yeah, Murray. That's probably not the first time I mixed those names up. And I doubt Burke can pick up another top-5 pick, unless he gambles with his 1st next season and a roster player.
Heroic Shrimp
New member
Some food for thought with regards to high drafting: A few weeks ago, I was looking into offensive statistics for this year, as well as Norris voting for last year, with regards to draft position. I looked at (at that moment in time) the top 20 point scorers in the NHL and the top 20 Norris in end of year Norris voting for last season.
I don't have all the results on hand, but what I do recall was notable in two ways. For forwards, 10 of the top 20 scorers were drafted in the top 3. 1st round picks in general very well represented, but top 3 picks very strongly so. But among the defensemen.... not a single player top 10 in Norris voting last year was drafted before #47! It's such an incredible contrast, such high predictive value at the draft for top end forward talent, and far, far less so for eventual elite defensemen.
Anyway, take of it what you will. If I had the time, I'd love to look at how those numbers stack up year after year for both forwards and defense.
I don't have all the results on hand, but what I do recall was notable in two ways. For forwards, 10 of the top 20 scorers were drafted in the top 3. 1st round picks in general very well represented, but top 3 picks very strongly so. But among the defensemen.... not a single player top 10 in Norris voting last year was drafted before #47! It's such an incredible contrast, such high predictive value at the draft for top end forward talent, and far, far less so for eventual elite defensemen.
Anyway, take of it what you will. If I had the time, I'd love to look at how those numbers stack up year after year for both forwards and defense.
bustaheims
Active member
Heroic Shrimp said:
Not a huge surprise, considering defencemen tend to develop more slowly. They tend to be late bloomers and, the ones that come into the draft fairly well developed often have a harder time raising their game than those that are still a little rough around the edges and spend more of their development time playing against a higher level of competition.
Yet again the Leafs are proving that once the pressure of needing to win is off their backs they are capable of beating anyone on any given night. Way to go boys. Way to go. You are neither good enough to make the playoffs or terrible enough to get a high pick. Mediocrity is the goal.
Imagine if the Pens did not draft Crosby, Malkin, Staal, but instead went on winning streaks every year after they were out of the playoff race? Where would that leave them.... oh ya, that would leave them looking like the Leafs.
Imagine if the Pens did not draft Crosby, Malkin, Staal, but instead went on winning streaks every year after they were out of the playoff race? Where would that leave them.... oh ya, that would leave them looking like the Leafs.
Britishbulldog
Active member
| Draft Position | Team | Games Played | Points | |
9 | Tampa Bay | 74 | 75 | PHI BOS NJD WPG WAS MON TOR WPG |
8 | Anaheim | 75 | 75 | BOS SJS PHX EDM VAN EDM CAL |
7 | Carolina | 76 | 75 | TOR WPG NJD OTT MON FLA |
6 | Toronto | 76 | 75 | CAR PHI BUF BUF TBY MON |
5 | Minnesota | 74 | 72 | WAS NYR FLA LAK CHI NAS CHI PHX |
4 | NY Islanders | 74 | 71 | FLA PIT PIT BOS OTT NJD WPG CBJ |
3 | Montreal | 76 | 71 | FLA NYR WAS TBY CAR TOR |
2 | e - Edmonton | 75 | 69 | CBJ DAL LAK ANA LAK ANA VAN |
1 | e - Columbus | 74 | 55 | Does Not Matter Who They Play |
Heroic Shrimp said:
Prior to the lockout, a 1st rounder (top 30 pick) won the Norris 69% of the time. Only one Norris winner, Ron Blake, was drafted out of the top 60, #70.
It used to be that they avoided drafting goalies in the top 60 because they were so unpredictable. Between '79 and '88 (10 years), 7 goalies got drafted in the top 60 who made something of themselves (more than an average starter): Lindbergh, Vernon, Beaupre, Fuhr
Roy, Burke, Barrasso (yet some of those guys never won a Vezina or a Cup).
Of the 20 different Vezina winners since the draft began, only 9 (45%) are from the top 60 in the draft with only 25% being first rounders (top 30). That's somewhat clouded with the introduction of the Jennings in '82 for the best stats. (I glanced quickly and could have missed someone)
Correspondingly, 94% of the Norris winners are from the top 60 with 63% of them being 1st rounders (top 30).
Having said that, I think they have improved substantially over the last couple of decades drafting goalies.
We often say "stats are not everything" but the scoring stats seem to be a more reliable one for predicting how a player might score in the NHL and therefore, where an offensive forward should be drafted. Norris and Vezina trophies are obviously more subjective judgments where the dmen have the benefit of half of their game, their scoring, being a fairer and more recognized individual measurement than the goalie stats that mix in with a team's ability.
I also wonder about the rules changes in the more recent Norris voting. Puck moving dmen are in more demand in the "new" game compared with a drop in demand for the slower, clutch & grab physical defensive dmen who were more attractive prior to the rules changes. I suspect that has some bearing on the Norris voting vs where a dman was drafted results.
I doubt Cox knows anything about the inner-workings of the Leafs management, and this isn't exactly shocking news, but:
maplesyrup
New member
According to some mocks, Faska should be available in the 8-12 range. Seems we could have him with little trouble. Anyone know anything about him?
bustaheims
Active member
Sarge said:
I've read that he may be the most NHL ready player in the draft, whatever that means.
Sarge said:
Here's a profile that was written on him a couple of weeks ago:
http://thehockeywriters.com/radek-faksa-the-next-ones-nhl-2012-draft-prospect-profile-ascending-up-the-ranks/
Sounds like a very safe draft pick, although his ceiling doesn't seem very high. I'd still prefer one of the defencemen if Grig and Gal are gone.
bustaheims said:
It's mostly because his defensive ability is very high.