Patrick Kane - Possible rape charge

[Kin]

While I can't speak for Kane, I would imagine being accused of rape and the potential ramifications of that legally would be pretty tough to deal with outside of the hockey rink.

I don't know why it seems that you are not allowed to both say the above while also acknowledging how awful/scary/terrible it is for the woman involved as well.  I don't see it as mutually exclusive.

I think it's because it highlights the double standard we have in society for people accused of rape vs. being accused of just about any other crime. If Adrian Peterson hadn't been suspended last year and had had a terrific season, can you imagine anyone writing "Boy, how impressive is it that he's managed to do this with all of these distractions?"

We'd think that person was crazy, despite the fact that what you say here would be no less true of someone accused of abusing their child.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

While I can't speak for Kane, I would imagine being accused of rape and the potential ramifications of that legally would be pretty tough to deal with outside of the hockey rink.

I don't know why it seems that you are not allowed to both say the above while also acknowledging how awful/scary/terrible it is for the woman involved as well.  I don't see it as mutually exclusive.

It's not mutually exclusive, but the problem is the media has exclusively been focusing on Kane's side of the story and Kane's struggles. This article is just another example of that.

I think that my biggest problem with the article is that it's looking at a real-world issue solely through the lens of a hockey person. You mentioned how tough this must have been for Kane, and I'm sure it was. You know what Kevin Allen suggested his biggest issue was during it all? The fact that he wasn't able to skate for 6 weeks. Poor guy, how'd he do it?

This also kind of goes back to something that I disagreed with others about when the case first started. The idea that, even if Kane wasn't charged with anything, the accusation alone was going to follow him around and negatively hurt his reputation in the sports world. The word "hero" didn't actually get thrown around in that article but I agree with the PPP post, it's certainly suggested that he's a better person for being able to "overcome" it. And one look at the All-Star voting leaders would prove that that's bunk too.

 

[Kin]

This also kind of goes back to something that I disagreed with others about when the case first started. The idea that, even if Kane wasn't charged with anything, the accusation alone was going to follow him around and negatively hurt his reputation in the sports world. The word "hero" didn't actually get thrown around in that article but I agree with the PPP post, it's certainly suggested that he's a better person for being able to "overcome" it. And one look at the All-Star voting leaders would prove that that's bunk too.

Well, forget just not being charged. Kobe Bryant was charged and now as he's going through his year-long retirement happy ending his similar situation hasn't been mentioned at all. The idea that anything sort of a guilty conviction would have lasting ramifications in any significant way doesn't really hold up.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

While I can't speak for Kane, I would imagine being accused of rape and the potential ramifications of that legally would be pretty tough to deal with outside of the hockey rink.

I don't know why it seems that you are not allowed to both say the above while also acknowledging how awful/scary/terrible it is for the woman involved as well.  I don't see it as mutually exclusive.

It's not mutually exclusive, but the problem is the media has exclusively been focusing on Kane's side of the story and Kane's struggles. This article is just another example of that.

I think that my biggest problem with the article is that it's looking at a real-world issue solely through the lens of a hockey person. You mentioned how tough this must have been for Kane, and I'm sure it was. You know what Kevin Allen suggested his biggest issue was during it all? The fact that he wasn't able to skate for 6 weeks. Poor guy, how'd he do it?

This also kind of goes back to something that I disagreed with others about when the case first started. The idea that, even if Kane wasn't charged with anything, the accusation alone was going to follow him around and negatively hurt his reputation in the sports world. The word "hero" didn't actually get thrown around in that article but I agree with the PPP post, it's certainly suggested that he's a better person for being able to "overcome" it. And one look at the All-Star voting leaders would prove that that's bunk too.

Well yeah, but I'm not confident in Kevin Allen's ability to comment on the situation of a woman he knows nothing about and isn't supposed to know anything about, and if his job is to comment on the hockey aspect of Kane's life then he isn't going to be getting into that sort of stuff anyway.

I agree with the rest of your post.  I don't know why Allen suggested that was the toughest part of all of this (I imagine it would be far tougher mentally having a court case to deal with, not missing skating), but you're correct that it's not likely to negatively affect him the rest of his career.

 

[Tigger]

I'm pretty sure Pat Brisson said that and Allen is reporting it.

 

[Kin]

I'm pretty sure Pat Brisson said that and Allen is reporting it.

It's not that meaningful a distinction. The quotes a writer includes in a story is part of their narrative.

 

[bustaheims]

I think that my biggest problem with the article is that it's looking at a real-world issue solely through the lens of a hockey person. You mentioned how tough this must have been for Kane, and I'm sure it was. You know what Kevin Allen suggested his biggest issue was during it all? The fact that he wasn't able to skate for 6 weeks. Poor guy, how'd he do it?

Yeah. That's a pretty weak point for Allen to make. Because, clearly, there's no other way he could somehow manage to stay in physical shape throughout this ideal if he couldn't skate! The horrors! I'm also not a huge fan of the "overcome" anything angle. If anything, hockey was a welcome escape for Kane that allowed him to push things like the potential of a prison sentence, being a registered sex offender, and the various other consequences for something that he believed he didn't do out of his mind for a little while. That may have helped him become more focused - which, in turn, could have helped him raise the level of his play. He may have been able to turn a potentially significantly negative time in his life into a positive, but he didn't overcome anything. He didn't have to actually face the thing he would have had to try to overcome.

 

[Tigger]

I'm pretty sure Pat Brisson said that and Allen is reporting it.

It's not that meaningful a distinction. The quotes a writer includes in a story is part of their narrative.

Nowhere did Allen say that was the biggest issue, Brisson said it was 'surprising', Modano said it must have been 'mentally exhausting'. Allen pointed out that it's astonishing that he's doing this during the deadpuck era 2.0, Hjalmarsson notes 'for him to do this in this era, is amazing'

I get that people want to glue the real world issue here but I don't think that's what Allen is really writing about, and I don't think you can write about the hockey side of it without including it to some degree, it's part of the story. Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

 

[Tigger]

I should add that I don't sympathize with Kane over this, I have no idea what happened, it seems that it's practically impossible to write about this without generating some degree of animosity, and that's rightly so. After reading Allen's article I didn't think he was a hero or a righteous man, more that he was experiencing a rather surprising degree of success with the hockey.

 

[Kin]

Nowhere did Allen say that was the biggest issue, Brisson said it was 'surprising', Modano said it must have been 'mentally exhausting'. Allen pointed out that it's astonishing that he's doing this during the deadpuck era 2.0, Hjalmarsson notes 'for him to do this in this era, is amazing'

Well, we could get super-inside baseball on this if you like I suppose. Brisson says what he says, unchallenged, and then Allen writes "Another astonishing aspect..." and says what he does about the scoring conditions. So if I wrote:

Noted TMLfans.ca poster Tigger said "What's incredible is that the Maple Leafs are in last place".

Also incredible is that.....

My use of "also" is going to be read as an endorsement of the characterization you just made, right? It can't be "another astonishing aspect" without tacitly agreeing that what was just said was an astonishing aspect. There are easily ways to segue into the next point without stating your agreement with the previous one(ie. "Whether or not that's true, what is indisputably true is...." or something less clunky)

And that's even before you get to my point about the quotes you choose as a reporter are deliberate and construct the narrative you're telling.

 

[Kin]

I get that people want to glue the real world issue here but I don't think that's what Allen is really writing about, and I don't think you can write about the hockey side of it without including it to some degree, it's part of the story. Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

But once you open that box, you're obligated to do a decent job of it. I don't agree that Allen couldn't have written a piece that was just "Kane is playing great!" because I'm sure those have already been written but even if I'm wrong about that once a journalist is trying to put his play in the context of what happened in the off-season, he does have a responsibility to tell that story completely and I think you'd agree that only speaking to either other hockey players or people whose job it is to paint Patrick Kane in the best possible light is not the widest and most appropriate spread of opinions.

 

[Tigger]

Surprising and astonishing do not equal the biggest issue or the toughest part.

 

[Tigger]

I get that people want to glue the real world issue here but I don't think that's what Allen is really writing about, and I don't think you can write about the hockey side of it without including it to some degree, it's part of the story. Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

But once you open that box, you're obligated to do a decent job of it. I don't agree that Allen couldn't have written a piece that was just "Kane is playing great!" because I'm sure those have already been written but even if I'm wrong about that once a journalist is trying to put his play in the context of what happened in the off-season, he does have a responsibility to tell that story completely and I think you'd agree that only speaking to either other hockey players or people whose job it is to paint Patrick Kane in the best possible light is not the widest and most appropriate spread of opinions.

Sure, it's a narrow focus, no doubt. I'm not sure how he tells the story completely as you're suggesting, just what is the complete story?

 

[Kin]

Sure, it's a narrow focus, no doubt. I'm not sure how he tells the story completely as you're suggesting, just what is the complete story?

Well, I think if you wanted to write a piece on how athletes(or anyone) might cope with doing their job while simultaneously having been accused of a crime there would be multiple routes you could take. You could talk to other athletes who'd been in similar situations, for starters. There are quite a few of those guys floating about.

Alternately you could ask an expert about how it would affect someone. Obviously there wouldn't be many specific experts but I think a sports psychologist might be suited to say how it might affect someone(although my suspicion is they'd agree with busta).

Or you could even try to link it yourself, look at the performance of athletes going through similar things. Again, it's not a new phenomenon. I think in one of Dave Chapelle's comedy specials he has a whole bit about how when Kobe Bryant was charged with sexual assault he was playing so well it was like he was "trying to beat the case on the court".

But like I said, I don't agree that Allen couldn't just have written a story entirely about hockey. By clumsily attempting to broach the subject, I think he opens himself up to valid criticisms that it looks like a puff piece.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Surprising and astonishing do not equal the biggest issue or the toughest part.

It's literally the only example given of how the situation negatively effected Kane. So maybe it wasn't done intentionally, but it certainly suggests something.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

But like I said, I don't agree that Allen couldn't just have written a story entirely about hockey. By clumsily attempting to broach the subject, I think he opens himself up to valid criticisms that it looks like a puff piece.

Part of my problem too is that this isn't even an article about Kane's streak, which definitely warrants discussion strictly from a hockey POV considering what he's doing is unheard of in this era. Allen just uses the streak as a pretense to discuss how far Kane's come since 3 months ago. We would have seen the exact same article if he went pointless a couple of times in November.

 

[Tigger]

Sure, it's a narrow focus, no doubt. I'm not sure how he tells the story completely as you're suggesting, just what is the complete story?

Well, I think if you wanted to write a piece on how athletes(or anyone) might cope with doing their job while simultaneously having been accused of a crime there would be multiple routes you could take. You could talk to other athletes who'd been in similar situations, for starters. There are quite a few of those guys floating about.

Alternately you could ask an expert about how it would affect someone. Obviously there wouldn't be many specific experts but I think a sports psychologist might be suited to say how it might affect someone(although my suspicion is they'd agree with busta).

Or you could even try to link it yourself, look at the performance of athletes going through similar things. Again, it's not a new phenomenon. I think in one of Dave Chapelle's comedy specials he has a whole bit about how when Kobe Bryant was charged with sexual assault he was playing so well it was like he was "trying to beat the case on the court".

But like I said, I don't agree that Allen couldn't just have written a story entirely about hockey. By clumsily attempting to broach the subject, I think he opens himself up to valid criticisms that it looks like a puff piece.

Those are good suggestions, though I'd extend that even with those outside opinions and examples, he'll open himself up to over the top criticisms like the ppp piece. I wonder, had Allen not tried to shoehorn it in if the ppp piece wouldn't have been more acerbic. 'acts like it never happened' or some such.

 

[Kin]

Those are good suggestions, though I'd extend that even with those outside opinions and examples, he'll open himself up to over the top criticisms like the ppp piece. I wonder, had Allen not tried to shoehorn it in if the ppp piece wouldn't have been more acerbic. 'acts like it never happened' or some such.

I suppose where we might just be at an impasse is that you read this article as Allen "shoehorning" in a link to what happened in the off-season whereas it's very difficult for me to not read that as the entire point of the article.

 

[Tigger]

Those are good suggestions, though I'd extend that even with those outside opinions and examples, he'll open himself up to over the top criticisms like the ppp piece. I wonder, had Allen not tried to shoehorn it in if the ppp piece wouldn't have been more acerbic. 'acts like it never happened' or some such.

I suppose where we might just be at an impasse is that you read this article as Allen "shoehorning" in a link to what happened in the off-season whereas it's very difficult for me to not read that as the entire point of the article.

Fair enough.

 

[Kin]

Well, maybe he is guilty after all.