Patrick Kane - Possible rape charge

[Kin]

So, in these cases the accused is always guilty, no matter the outcome of criminal proceedings?

Patrick Kane isn't exactly your average every day person. Thinking something about him in this case isn't necessarily a good place to leap to all people everywhere in perpetuity.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

So, in these cases the accused is always guilty, no matter the outcome of criminal proceedings?

I mean, I've been through all this earlier in the case, but in a word (and in my opinion): sorta. Until/unless the victim comes out and says "I made it all up" (which she definitely hasn't done) I'll believe her story. I honestly don't understand what would make a person like her lie about this in the year 2015. She's almost definitely not winning the criminal case. There hasn't really been any word about her moving forward with a civil case so this doesn't seem to be a money grab. And it's virtually guaranteed that her name was going to come out in the media in one way or another and that's guaranteed to cause her loads of hardship (it has and it did).

All along this was a no-win situation for her, so why go forward unless you strongly believe in what you're assuming him of?

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

So, in these cases the accused is always guilty, no matter the outcome of criminal proceedings?

I mean, I've been through all this earlier in the case, but in a word (and in my opinion): sorta. Until/unless the victim comes out and says "I made it all up" (which she definitely hasn't done) I'll believe her story. I honestly don't understand what would make a person like her lie about this in the year 2015. She's almost definitely not winning the criminal case. There hasn't really been any word about her moving forward with a civil case so this doesn't seem to be a money grab. And it's virtually guaranteed that her name was going to come out in the media in one way or another and that's guaranteed to cause her loads of hardship (it has and it did).

All along this was a no-win situation for her, so why go forward unless you strongly believe in what you're assuming him of?

I think the society we live in, a society with a lot of young people looking for a shortcut, with an incredible sense of entitlement is one where it is easier to see why someone would potentially fake something like this in the hopes of cashing in. I'm not saying that's what happening here, I just think it's probably more common now than it would have been even 25 years ago.

As for the bolded part, I mean, I don't even know what to say about that. You're of course entitled to your opinion.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I think the society we live in, a society with a lot of young people looking for a shortcut, with an incredible sense of entitlement

What.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I think the society we live in, a society with a lot of young people looking for a shortcut, with an incredible sense of entitlement is one where it is easier to see why someone would potentially fake something like this in the hopes of cashing in. I'm not saying that's what happening here, I just think it's probably more common now than it would have been even 25 years ago.

"She's just looking for money" is generally the first thing people say in situations like this. What do you make out of the fact that both sides have denied any talk of a settlement in this case? Or the fact that a civil case against Kane hasn't been brought up yet?

 

[bustaheims]

I'm kinda torn. I have a hard time believing that nothing happened, but with the way things have played out, I also have a hard time believing what Kane is being accused of is what actually happened. The evidence doesn't support it - in fact, some of it contradicts parts of her story, according to the District Attorney.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

I think the society we live in, a society with a lot of young people looking for a shortcut, with an incredible sense of entitlement is one where it is easier to see why someone would potentially fake something like this in the hopes of cashing in. I'm not saying that's what happening here, I just think it's probably more common now than it would have been even 25 years ago.

"She's just looking for money" is generally the first thing people say in situations like this. What do you make out of the fact that both sides have denied any talk of a settlement in this case? Or the fact that a civil case against Kane hasn't been brought up yet?

I didn't say she did or that she intends to.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

I think the society we live in, a society with a lot of young people looking for a shortcut, with an incredible sense of entitlement

What.

I think there are a lot of young people(a larger percentage than generations previously) feel entitled/are obsessed by money/fame. I think it's something that is exacerbated by TMZ and the like.

Pro athletes/famous people are often extorted/wrongly accused by people looking to make a quick buck, certainly more so than the general public.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

I want to be clear, I've supported the victim in this case and tend to in cases like it.

There is apparently no strong evidence against Kane, the DA has said there are contradictions in the case from the victim's side and the victim herself has said she no longer wishes to pursue things.

At a certain point you have to absolve the accused of guilt.

 

[Kin]

I think there are a lot of young people(a larger percentage than generations previously) feel entitled/are obsessed by money/fame. I think it's something that is exacerbated by TMZ and the like.

Pro athletes/famous people are often extorted/wrongly accused by people looking to make a quick buck, certainly more so than the general public.

The problem with that as it applies to this case, aside from whatever larger discussions we could have about this generation vs. any other, is that if you were someone looking to make a quick buck or cash-in then this is probably one of the least effective methods of doing so. There are so many obstacles and biases inherent in the criminal justice system against the victims of sexual assault that a tiny number of accusations lead to prosecutions and a smaller number still lead to convictions.

That's not just for famous athletes either. That's for anyone. So to say that this accusation not leading to either of those things should sway our opinions on the validity of this claim would force one to similarly feel that the vast majority of accusations are false, regardless of the financial status of the accused.

If this woman had filed a civil suit or sold her story to a newspaper or something of that ilk then there'd be some evidence that financial gain might b a motivating factor but there's none of that here. All we have is an accusation ending like so many others do. That's not really conclusive in any way.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Yeah I mean if she was looking for a quick buck she would have just jumped in front of a car Kane was driving in. Probably would have been less damaging to her life too.

 

[Kin]

There is apparently no strong evidence against Kane, the DA has said there are contradictions in the case from the victim's side and the victim herself has said she no longer wishes to pursue things.

None of those things can be looked at without first establishing a particular context for what we're talking about here. None of those things, individually, mean much.

Is there "strong evidence"? Physical DNA evidence? Circumstantial? When a prosecutor says something like this what they're probably talking about is evidence that will lead to a conviction. There might not be any because rape is a crime that is notoriously difficult to prosecute precisely because there are usually no witnesses and just about any piece of physical evidence, as shown by this thread, can have multiple explanations. There is almost never a smoking gun in sexual assault cases and the lack of one is largely inconsequential.

Are there "contradictions" in the case? Of course there are. There are contradictions in almost any criminal case. You listened to Serial, right? How many contradictions were there in the accounts of what happened there? People are notoriously unreliable witnesses at the best of times and in a situation like this where, if what she's saying is true, the only actual witness has been through a fairly serious trauma recently. "Contradictions" in the story should be expected. Without knowing what they actually are, the presence of them doesn't really tell us anything.

And after months of this scrutiny, of police interviews and having her story splashed across newspapers and the TV, do you really believe that not wanting to go forward at this point is conclusive of anything? Getting a conviction in a case like this is always an uphill struggle. Having thousands of mouth breathing Blackhawks fans calling you a gold digging slut on top of it makes things harder, not easier. Kane's fame provides disincentive, not incentive. Again, if what she's saying is true it's probably on the short list of the worst things that ever happened to her. If you look at your life, narrow it down to your worst experiences, how eager would you be to drag them out? To continue bearing the brunt of it? To sign on to see this drama unfold publicly for the already small chance that any justice is ever done?

It's easy to armchair QB that one but I can tell you that from what I know about the subject there are lots of people, people who ar absolutely 100% certain of what happened to them who find the process frustrating and enough of a delay in their own moving on from the experience that they eventually lose patience with the deeply flawed way we prosecute these kinds of crimes. Again, Kane's would make this harder for someone even if you feel there's some redemptive power in whatever civil damages might one day result.

At a certain point you have to absolve the accused of guilt.

I've gone into our responsibilities as individuals vs. a society's collective responsibility to a fair legal system before and won't dwell on it again but at the very least I hope you can see why there are a lot of people who won't see any of this as really reaching the point you're talking about here.

Whether Patrick Kane is guilty or innocent what this has been is an up close and personal look at just how poorly the legal system does with what is a pervasive crime in which the deck is constantly stacked against the victim. None of these results are atypical, none of these outcomes tell us anything for certain. People who believed one thing going into this are likely to continue, regardless of what that is.

 

[rdowdall]

The problem with that as it applies to this case, aside from whatever larger discussions we could have about this generation vs. any other, is that if you were someone looking to make a quick buck or cash-in then this is probably one of the least effective methods of doing so. There are so many obstacles and biases inherent in the criminal justice system against the victims of sexual assault that a tiny number of accusations lead to prosecutions and a smaller number still lead to convictions.

Sure if the person is as smart as you are they would probably see that.  But the person may not think like that.  They may get most of their legal advice from T.V.'s or movies.

 

[Bullfrog]

I've gone into our responsibilities as individuals vs. a society's collective responsibility to a fair legal system before and won't dwell on it again but at the very least I hope you can see why there are a lot of people who won't see any of this as really reaching the point you're talking about here.

Whether Patrick Kane is guilty or innocent what this has been is an up close and personal look at just how poorly the legal system does with what is a pervasive crime in which the deck is constantly stacked against the victim. None of these results are atypical, none of these outcomes tell us anything for certain. People who believed one thing going into this are likely to continue, regardless of what that is.

Ya, "Not enough evidence to convict". That's really all we should take away from this. This shouldn't give credence to either side of the dispute.

 

[herman]

http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2015/12/15/10162442/kane-point-streak-is-not-a-heroic-narrative-of-overcoming-obstacles

On Monday, the USA Today published a piece about the Patrick Kane rape case, by longtime hockey writer Kevin Allen. This article should not have been written, let alone made it past the publication's editorial staff. Allen's article paints a picture of Kane as a hero, a righteous man who suffered through the ordeal of being accused of rape. Allen's evidence is a litany of loving quotes from men --€” including a surely impartial source, Kane's agent Pat Brisson, as well as his GM Stan Bowman, Blackhawks teammates, and former USA Hockey star Mike Modano who credits Kane as "remarkable" after "all that was happening to him."

Sadly, more people will gobble up the USA Today article instead.

 

[Kin]

http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2015/12/15/10162442/kane-point-streak-is-not-a-heroic-narrative-of-overcoming-obstacles

On Monday, the USA Today published a piece about the Patrick Kane rape case, by longtime hockey writer Kevin Allen. This article should not have been written, let alone made it past the publication's editorial staff. Allen's article paints a picture of Kane as a hero, a righteous man who suffered through the ordeal of being accused of rape. Allen's evidence is a litany of loving quotes from men --?? including a surely impartial source, Kane's agent Pat Brisson, as well as his GM Stan Bowman, Blackhawks teammates, and former USA Hockey star Mike Modano who credits Kane as "remarkable" after "all that was happening to him."

Sadly, more people will gobble up the USA Today article instead.

I obviously can't speak in terms of particular or significant numbers but I know for a fact, aside from reading various people saying this online, that the way the NHL and the general hockey establishment has covered/dealt with Kane and his situation was a real point of no return for some female fans.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2015/12/15/10162442/kane-point-streak-is-not-a-heroic-narrative-of-overcoming-obstacles

On Monday, the USA Today published a piece about the Patrick Kane rape case, by longtime hockey writer Kevin Allen. This article should not have been written, let alone made it past the publication's editorial staff. Allen's article paints a picture of Kane as a hero, a righteous man who suffered through the ordeal of being accused of rape. Allen's evidence is a litany of loving quotes from men --?? including a surely impartial source, Kane's agent Pat Brisson, as well as his GM Stan Bowman, Blackhawks teammates, and former USA Hockey star Mike Modano who credits Kane as "remarkable" after "all that was happening to him."

Sadly, more people will gobble up the USA Today article instead.

While I can't speak for Kane, I would imagine being accused of rape and the potential ramifications of that legally would be pretty tough to deal with outside of the hockey rink.

I don't know why it seems that you are not allowed to both say the above while also acknowledging how awful/scary/terrible it is for the woman involved as well.  I don't see it as mutually exclusive.

And yeah a lot of the male sportswriters are pretty tone-deaf about it - but I find these blog posts are equally tough for me to sympathize with.  It's basically "you agree with this post or you're a misogynist".  But maybe that's just me.  I appreciate that there is a HUGE lack of female presence when it comes to all areas of sports and sports coverage, so I don't think these posts are necessarily a bad thing either.

 

[Tigger]

http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2015/12/15/10162442/kane-point-streak-is-not-a-heroic-narrative-of-overcoming-obstacles

On Monday, the USA Today published a piece about the Patrick Kane rape case, by longtime hockey writer Kevin Allen. This article should not have been written, let alone made it past the publication's editorial staff. Allen's article paints a picture of Kane as a hero, a righteous man who suffered through the ordeal of being accused of rape. Allen's evidence is a litany of loving quotes from men --€” including a surely impartial source, Kane's agent Pat Brisson, as well as his GM Stan Bowman, Blackhawks teammates, and former USA Hockey star Mike Modano who credits Kane as "remarkable" after "all that was happening to him."

Sadly, more people will gobble up the USA Today article instead.

I just read the article, it sure wasn't what I thought it would be after reading the ppp article.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2015/12/15/10162442/kane-point-streak-is-not-a-heroic-narrative-of-overcoming-obstacles

On Monday, the USA Today published a piece about the Patrick Kane rape case, by longtime hockey writer Kevin Allen. This article should not have been written, let alone made it past the publication's editorial staff. Allen's article paints a picture of Kane as a hero, a righteous man who suffered through the ordeal of being accused of rape. Allen's evidence is a litany of loving quotes from men --?? including a surely impartial source, Kane's agent Pat Brisson, as well as his GM Stan Bowman, Blackhawks teammates, and former USA Hockey star Mike Modano who credits Kane as "remarkable" after "all that was happening to him."

Sadly, more people will gobble up the USA Today article instead.

While I can't speak for Kane, I would imagine being accused of rape and the potential ramifications of that legally would be pretty tough to deal with outside of the hockey rink.

I don't know why it seems that you are not allowed to both say the above while also acknowledging how awful/scary/terrible it is for the woman involved as well.  I don't see it as mutually exclusive.

And yeah a lot of the male sportswriters are pretty tone-deaf about it - but I find these blog posts are equally tough for me to sympathize with.  It's basically "you agree with this post or you're a misogynist".  But maybe that's just me.  I appreciate that there is a HUGE lack of female presence when it comes to all areas of sports and sports coverage, so I don't think these posts are necessarily a bad thing either.

Great post.

 

[herman]

While I can't speak for Kane, I would imagine being accused of rape and the potential ramifications of that legally would be pretty tough to deal with outside of the hockey rink.

I don't know why it seems that you are not allowed to both say the above while also acknowledging how awful/scary/terrible it is for the woman involved as well.  I don't see it as mutually exclusive.

And yeah a lot of the male sportswriters are pretty tone-deaf about it - but I find these blog posts are equally tough for me to sympathize with.  It's basically "you agree with this post or you're a misogynist".  But maybe that's just me.  I appreciate that there is a HUGE lack of female presence when it comes to all areas of sports and sports coverage, so I don't think these posts are necessarily a bad thing either.

I'm mostly in the same boat as what you've outlined in principle. It couldn't have been easy for Kane, emotionally, to have his name out there associated with the taboo. It really does pale in comparison to what the other person had to go through though, but because she's not famous, or a professional athlete, and the prosecuting team could not prove beyond reasonable doubt that the charges should carry through, her voice in the whole matter is excised.

I don't have a problem with the PPP article (and really appreciated it) because it's not laying down ultimatums about misogyny; it merely pointed out how those in power circle their wagons to remain in power.

I don't know if there are any professional sports leagues that treat this (or many other extra-curricular failings) properly. Probably because the sports and entertainment industry, by definition, comes from a place of privilege.