Penguins vs. Maple Leafs - Nov. 25th, 7:00pm - SN, TSN 1050

[azzurri63]

Knies has been great.

Is it just me or has the first line?s best shifts/chances come from mid-change?

When Marner is off lol.

He's not health scratch levels of bad and I know it doesn't work for everyone but I think it's really time to take him off the top line. 

Not close. He's still got 20pts in this his 19th game but he's not confident right now and he's killing Matthews and Knies. I'm sure he'll get it going but ya gotta change it up.

When Marner is off lol.



Do you think a point a game for him and Matthews is acceptable. I sure the hell don't not in this day and age and how scoring seems to be up. Kucherov will have double his points soon. Him and 34 have been crap and off the scoresheet way too often. Team is flawed for the last 3-4 years. TB has as many points and they don't have a goaltender. I can see us finishing 3rd again and it will be another possible disappointment come playoffs. I wanna see what Treliving does with this team in the next month or two and if not much is done I don't think this team does anything in the way of winning anything.

 

[L K]

Matthews has 1 even strength point in 7 games now.  Hard to win when your top guys aren't scoring

 

[Chris]

Another game where the Leafs go sleepwalking for half a period, cough up the lead, then can't find the back of the net. Same old script.

Something definitely looks off with M&M and at this point I would like to see Nylander and Marner switched. Just shake it up, that seems to be the only thing that Keefe hasn't done.

Frankly, I am becoming less and less impressed with this team with every game I watch. I know they'll go on a shooting heater at some point and win a bunch of games, but the same old issues will linger in the background, waiting to surface come playoff time. Rinse and repeat.

 

[Chris]

The Leafs dump the puck in way too much for a team that is losing a lot of puck battles.  A big chunk of this period has been the Leafs dumping it in and Pittsburgh immediately clearing the zone

I always kind of chuckle when I see, for example, Knies dump the puck into Marner's corner. The other way around _might_ work but most of these forwards aren't built for puck retrievals, or maybe they don't want to do it, or maybe both. Then end result speaks for itself.

 

[Peter D.]

Games like this against an inferior team is when you'd expect Matthews and Marner to step up and drag the team back into it and grab at least a point. 

 

[herman]

https://x.com/leafsnews/status/1728624862707544416
Uhhh

 

[azzurri63]

https://twitter.com/leafsnews/status/1728624862707544416
Uhhh

Keefe wtf no issues with them. They are paid to produce plain and simple and they aren't. What game is he watching. We are screwed with this whole management team. Matthews is getting ragged on for his play even saw where they are saying he's making a case to be the leagues most overpaid star. I don't care how many goals he's got it was all in a handful of games and other than the 3 or 4 games he's been silent. How many scoreless nights and the same goes for 16. Management hasn't learnt anything from this core. I'm not opposed to break this team up. These guys don't look like they have figured anything out and Dubas has left the cupboards try with his trades. Going to be some tough years ahead in my opinion unless they retool.

 

[Chris]

https://twitter.com/leafsnews/status/1728624862707544416
Uhhh

Keefe wtf no issues with them. They are paid to produce plain and simple and they aren't. What game is he watching. We are screwed with this whole management team. Matthews is getting ragged on for his play even saw where they are saying he's making a case to be the leagues most overpaid star. I don't care how many goals he's got it was all in a handful of games and other than the 3 or 4 games he's been silent. How many scoreless nights and the same goes for 16. Management hasn't learnt anything from this core. I'm not opposed to break this team up. These guys don't look like they have figured anything out and Dubas has left the cupboards try with his trades. Going to be some tough years ahead in my opinion unless they retool.

Matthews is starting to look a bit like he did last year - not handling pucks cleanly, not getting off that great wrist shot very often, losing faceoffs. Chronic injury acting up again? Something doesn't look right. Simple case of overpaiditis? You are right that other than a few games, he's looked pretty ordinary a lot of the time.

 

[Highlander]

Marner has to realize that the honeymoon is over and its time to play the game that is providing the rest.

 

[archie holdsworth]

So far, this season looks to be not so good compared to previous seasons (though their record isn't all that bad).

I admit to holding out hope that this Leafs team will be a better playoff team due to the team coming together at the right time and Treliving making necessary moves toward playoff success. There is still time for things to gel.

If none of that happens, then yeah, it's time to move on, whatever that may entail. But, let's see how this season goes first. No point in trying to live in the future.

 

[azzurri63]

Marner has to realize that the honeymoon is over and its time to play the game that is providing the rest.

Sad part is when his contract is up he'll get more and in my opinion shouldn't. I personally think he's the one to go. Get some decent picks or young players or a couple bonafide players, sign Nylander who looks like he's on another level and hopefully stays there and when JT is done you have a whack of money to strengthen the team even more. Love to see this core win but I don't see it happening so make some changes. They've had ample time to figure it out.

 

[herman]

Oct 2022 game 2
Keefe: ?The difference between us and Arizona is that we have elite players,? he said in the wake of that loss. ?And our elite players didn?t play like elite players.?

a day later:
?I used some of the wrong words to try to describe what I was trying to describe, which is that the difference in the game was just, we weren?t able to produce, whether it?s power play or five-on-five. And that?s really the difference, with all the puck time we had. But by no means was I meaning anything beyond that.?


The morning of this game:
https://x.com/jonassiegel/status/1728467073590808793

Post game after they pooped the bed:
"I think we could all agree that they can play better, but one of the reports I get before every game, one of them I look at is our 5-on-5 scoring this season and at the top of the list is Mitch Marner," Keefe said. "We'll stay building out our team and building our group but let's not pile on the negatives here."

These aren?t even harsh criticisms!

?-

But Marner has 13 even strength points!
Uh 7 of them are from those two games he went bananas (1g 3a x 2). He registered a 5v5 point in only 6 other games (8 out of 19GP)

He?s tied for the most giveaways at 5v5 (alongside Domi). Pucks just aren?t staying on his stick. As the guy who is supposed to chain plays for his line, it?s small wonder Matthews? line is struggling as a whole, similar to the playoffs when they both get nerfed when teams iso-cover Marner. Every LW who saw time with 34-16 looks better away from them. They continue to play 24 min and get all the PP time when they look off.

 

[ZBBM]

I get that Marner isn't playing well now but he's just off a 99-point season and has been elite since Day 1.  Keefe is no favorite of mine but he's right, let's just cool off and see what the next few weeks bring.

 

[bustaheims]

I get that Marner isn't playing well now but he's just off a 99-point season and has been elite since Day 1.  Keefe is no favorite of mine but he's right, let's just cool off and see what the next few weeks bring.

Also, who knows what he?s saying to his players in private. Part of his job is to manage media narratives. Giving them sound bites to run off of isn?t going to help players who could very well already be questioning themselves and struggling with their confidence. Keep that stuff in house and give the media little to nothing.

 

[herman]

a) I like Marner and I think he's a good/great player
b) I am not saying this stuff just because of this short run of issues recently; it's been years: he sewers the top line when the game gets tight
c) everyone on the team gets their ice-time leash yanked once in awhile: except for Marner and Matthews.
MLHS has talked about this plenty, and it was brought up obliquely in Treliving's first presser: this is a team, not just the core 4. But when the ice is tilted into our net, guess who the coach loads up even if they're playing blah? You don't have a team if you operate in a caste system. Come playoff time, your core 4 is gassed and your supporting cast has no impetus to step up: they know they're just killing clock.

 

[Bill_Berg]

a) I like Marner and I think he's a good/great player
b) I am not saying this stuff just because of this short run of issues recently; it's been years: he sewers the top line when the game gets tight
c) everyone on the team gets their ice-time leash yanked once in awhile: except for Marner and Matthews.
MLHS has talked about this plenty, and it was brought up obliquely in Treliving's first presser: this is a team, not just the core 4. But when the ice is tilted into our net, guess who the coach loads up even if they're playing blah? You don't have a team if you operate in a caste system. Come playoff time, your core 4 is gassed and your supporting cast has no impetus to step up: they know they're just killing clock.

Well this is bleak. Perhaps true, but also bleak.

 

[herman]

One wonders if we should have just kept Hyman instead.
5.5M AAV Hyman with Edmonton: 175 GP, 75G, 84A, 159Pts

Since Hyman left:
11.64M AAV Matthews: 166 GP, 114G, 98A, 212Pts
10.9M AAV Marner: 171 GP, 70G, 146A, 216Pts
6.9M AAV Nylander: 182 GP, 86G, 108A, 194Pts

Note that I'm not calling Marner lazy or anything like that. If anything, he tries too hard to solve problems the fanciest possible way. When there is no space, the game gets very basic and if you're on the wing and you're the third or fourth shooting threat on your line, you have to help get the puck back.

One thing that should help Marner excel again is adjusting his puck carrying more into his hip pocket, not out a full stick length in front of his skates.

 

[azzurri63]

a) I like Marner and I think he's a good/great player
b) I am not saying this stuff just because of this short run of issues recently; it's been years: he sewers the top line when the game gets tight
c) everyone on the team gets their ice-time leash yanked once in awhile: except for Marner and Matthews.
MLHS has talked about this plenty, and it was brought up obliquely in Treliving's first presser: this is a team, not just the core 4. But when the ice is tilted into our net, guess who the coach loads up even if they're playing blah? You don't have a team if you operate in a caste system. Come playoff time, your core 4 is gassed and your supporting cast has no impetus to step up: they know they're just killing clock.

Said it a thousand times the 2 run the show. When Nylander was going through some tough times, was benched or moved down the lineup no one made a peep about it. When Marner was benched last year and pulled his fit he was back on the ice after a couple lost shifts and Keefe had to come up with an excuse for the benching. These guys have been givie everything from day 1 and more than I would have gave them so early in their careers when neither one of them elevate their game come crunch time. For the most part disappear. MLSE doesn't give a s**t about winning because they are either blind or stupid or maybe even both. The writing has been on the wall with this team for the last few years but I think management thinks one day it's going to magically change. It should have been dissected already and I think the longer they wait the worse it's going to be because Treliving may do the same mortgage the future in the hope that they go far. I don't see it happening. Problem is nothing can be done with these NMC's to change the chemistry of this team with some bold moves because it's long overdue.

 

[Bullfrog]

a) I like Marner and I think he's a good/great player
b) I am not saying this stuff just because of this short run of issues recently; it's been years: he sewers the top line when the game gets tight
c) everyone on the team gets their ice-time leash yanked once in awhile: except for Marner and Matthews.
MLHS has talked about this plenty, and it was brought up obliquely in Treliving's first presser: this is a team, not just the core 4. But when the ice is tilted into our net, guess who the coach loads up even if they're playing blah? You don't have a team if you operate in a caste system. Come playoff time, your core 4 is gassed and your supporting cast has no impetus to step up: they know they're just killing clock.

I don't buy that at all. I'm sorry, but players aren't sitting there sulking because Matthews and Marner are first over the boards.

 

[herman]

a) I like Marner and I think he's a good/great player
b) I am not saying this stuff just because of this short run of issues recently; it's been years: he sewers the top line when the game gets tight
c) everyone on the team gets their ice-time leash yanked once in awhile: except for Marner and Matthews.
MLHS has talked about this plenty, and it was brought up obliquely in Treliving's first presser: this is a team, not just the core 4. But when the ice is tilted into our net, guess who the coach loads up even if they're playing blah? You don't have a team if you operate in a caste system. Come playoff time, your core 4 is gassed and your supporting cast has no impetus to step up: they know they're just killing clock.

I don't buy that at all. I'm sorry, but players aren't sitting there sulking because Matthews and Marner are first over the boards.

I don't think anyone is sulking. Just in terms of extrinsic motivation techniques, this puts a solid (mental) cap on your roster depth, at a time when teams live and die by their depth production (particularly if their top producers suffer a power outage).

Like there's barely any reward for PP2 generating well in limited minutes (because they don't fart around with the puck), other than Jarnkrok playing extra shifts with Kampf's line.