Saint Nik said:
I was thinking that the Toronto media might throw him some extra votes, but then again who knows.
Phil Kessel
- Thread starter GhostofPotvin29
- Start date
I was thinking that the Toronto media might throw him some extra votes, but then again who knows.
Kessel Run
New member
Saint Nik said:
Yeah Datsyuk is always a canidate, although Marty St. Louis has won it the past two years after Datsyuk winning 4 years in a row.
moon111
New member
One of the great thing about the Leafs, there's always a bad contract you can add in any deal to level the Cap-hit playing field.Bullfrog said:
Seriously, I think OV would blossom with a change of scenery. Although I'm not sure how either OV or Kessel like playing a defensive game.
maplesyrup
New member
Well, I have something to cheer for... I just placed a bet where I owe for every goal under 40 for Kessel and I win for ever goal over 40. - 40 is a wash. I might not win anything but it adds excitement here on out...
L K
Active member
Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:
I'm not saying that I wouldn't take Nash over Kessel either but how does Kessel not care vs. Nash? Both have done dick all to lead their table scraps team to the postseason. Nash has put Columbus in the playoffs once in 9 NHL seasons (10 professional seasons including the lockout year that is still a period of player development). It was a 4-game sweep.
I think a player like Nash is what is sorely missing from their top line (even when Lupul and Kessel were clicking because when they weren't scoring, they were stuck in the defensive end because the line was way too soft along the boards) but Nash has shown that he can't carry a team to the postseason at this point. He's a top flight player, but I think he's right in that same territory as Kessel is. They are two very different players, but they provide about the same amount of individual impact on a team's success/failure.
I think Nash has a better chance of being productive in the postseason if he has the #1 player target on his back though. Kessel just can't seem to fight through tight checking at all.
ZBBM
Active member
L K said:
My point is that Kessel doesn't seem to have the personal pride at stake that all truly great players do. He has been embarrassed in virtually every game he's played in the Gardens since asking out. Now, I'm not saying that he ought to running around slamming people because that's not the player he is. But I would at least expect SOME elevation of his game in these situations. He can't do it.
Kessel, in short, is a tremendous offensive talent who is fatally flawed as a competitor. And I am giving him credit for playing somewhat better this year than he did the previous 2, when he was just an absolute pushover.
Bonsixx said:
Nice to see Kessel get some praise there, but man what a terrible list that was. Toews and Giroux over Malkin? Jagr 18th? Rask over Fleury, Kipper, Miller, Price, Ward?
GhostofPotvin29
New member
The Leafs as a team have been terrible against Boston unlike any other opponent. In that situation it's hard for any one player to do too much when you're getting beat down like that continually. Kessel will finish with 3 points in 6 games against Boston this season, and 9 points in 17 career games vs. Boston. Obviously not good, but not pathetically bad either. This is a team thing more than a Kessel thing, IMO. He had 5 points in 6 games against them last season, I don't think he changed anything between seasons. Was it not a fatal flaw last season?
I don't think it shows some fatal flaw in him or anything ridiculous like that. Isn't Ottawa a big, divisional rival of ours? He feasts on them - 11 points in 6 games this season, something like 13 goals against them the last 3 seasons. He's played well against Montreal, too.
Yeah, he's sucked on multiple occasions against Boston when the whole team has sucked, but let's save the psychoanalysis.
I don't think it shows some fatal flaw in him or anything ridiculous like that. Isn't Ottawa a big, divisional rival of ours? He feasts on them - 11 points in 6 games this season, something like 13 goals against them the last 3 seasons. He's played well against Montreal, too.
Yeah, he's sucked on multiple occasions against Boston when the whole team has sucked, but let's save the psychoanalysis.
bustaheims
Active member
For what it's worth, Grabovski was the only Leaf who had more points than Kessel against Boston this season, and he only had 4.
ZBBM
Active member
Potvin29 said:
Well, except that the psychoanalysis is right on the money, and it is an albatross around the team's neck. You let me know when he comes through for us against real adversity, because then you'll have a point to make. And/or make the argument that you'd rather have him than either Nash or Parise.
I've found some of the media criticism of Kessel a little over the top. I go back to when he was drafted. He was projected to be a certain type of player. That type of player wasn't a Selke candidate. It wasn't as a power forward, etc. He was a fleet, non physical goal scorer that they hoped would do so in the NHL.
I didn't care for the trade when Burke made the deal - not because of Kessel but because of the timing of how Burke was going to try to pull a contender together: Kessel would be a UFA by the time they were close to contending. (I don't want to revisit that debate).
But having said that, I think Kessel has turned out rather well relative to what folks thought he might become. He's one of the top 10 goal scorers in the game. That's his job. That's why folks wanted him. And that's pretty close to the top side of what many thought his potential was.
This crap about physically matching up against Chara is just that. Nobody in the league will match up well physically against that guy. McCabe was made into a rag doll and Gary Roberts looked like a little kid trying to push Chara around. Phil Kessel was never going to be the second coming of Clark, Sundin or Gilmour.
Right now, I think Phil Kessel is the least of this team's problems.
To his credit, I think he's made significant strides this season in his defensive hockey. He's got a ways to go but he's never going to contend for the Selke - because he not that type of player and he never will be.
I didn't care for the trade when Burke made the deal - not because of Kessel but because of the timing of how Burke was going to try to pull a contender together: Kessel would be a UFA by the time they were close to contending. (I don't want to revisit that debate).
But having said that, I think Kessel has turned out rather well relative to what folks thought he might become. He's one of the top 10 goal scorers in the game. That's his job. That's why folks wanted him. And that's pretty close to the top side of what many thought his potential was.
This crap about physically matching up against Chara is just that. Nobody in the league will match up well physically against that guy. McCabe was made into a rag doll and Gary Roberts looked like a little kid trying to push Chara around. Phil Kessel was never going to be the second coming of Clark, Sundin or Gilmour.
Right now, I think Phil Kessel is the least of this team's problems.
To his credit, I think he's made significant strides this season in his defensive hockey. He's got a ways to go but he's never going to contend for the Selke - because he not that type of player and he never will be.
Bullfrog
Active member
cw said:
Sorry to just brush aside the rest of your post, but this is the part that matters to me. I have no issues with criticizing him, but the fervour with which it is done makes no sense to me. He has performed as advertised. Even better in my opinion as he's shown a decent knack at playmaking this year that I wasn't really expecting.
Illustrating his lack of production against Boston is a bit disingenuous. The whole team has scored only 10 goals against them in six games. His production is statistically insignificant. Though earlier someone did make the good point that Boston is really built in a way to stifle his style of play.
pnjunction
New member
Agree the problem is not with Kessel. Yes he has weaknesses but we would be worshipping him like we (or at least I) did Mogilny if he had a team around him that could help get it done. We saw what he could do with hot Lupul and marginally talented Bozak this year but unfortunately the rest of the team crumpled at the worst times.
The problem is the timing and cost of the move by Burke, and after that, his failure to shore up all of the remaining weak spots on the team. One could say that the weak spots were never going to be shored up by this time, #1 centers and #1 goalies don't just fall on your lap. On the other hand I think Burke made some ambitious moves and signings that might've worked if they hadn't blown up in our faces (I'm thinking of pretty much every UFA Burke has signed flopping badly).
The problem is the timing and cost of the move by Burke, and after that, his failure to shore up all of the remaining weak spots on the team. One could say that the weak spots were never going to be shored up by this time, #1 centers and #1 goalies don't just fall on your lap. On the other hand I think Burke made some ambitious moves and signings that might've worked if they hadn't blown up in our faces (I'm thinking of pretty much every UFA Burke has signed flopping badly).
Zee
Active member
Fanatic said:
It's the same old story with any great player we have. Until the Leafs build a proper team around him, Kessel won't be able to lead the Leafs anywhere. If Kessel were traded to a good team, with other players around him to help his game, I could see him blossoming into a 45-50 goal scorer (which he nearly is with the Leafs and is trending up towards), and then people will complain "why did we trade Kessel away, look he's scoring 50 goals now!"
You can't win with this team or the fans. The Leafs stink pure and simple. Kessel is NOT the problem. Everyone else that does nothing is.
Zee said:
I agree that Kessel would be more valuable if there was a quality team built around him. That is why I suggest that he is a complimentary player and not a cornerstone. The fact that Burke brought him in as a cornerstone is not Kessel's fault. But I do not have to appreciate him in the role that he has anymore than I do. Kessel would be more valuable to the Leafs if he was traded.