Phil Kessel

[Mack674]

At best Kessel is a complimentary player. Lupul seems to be able to elevate Kessel's game - not the other way around. I used to think that the Leafs shoudl trade Lupul while his value is high. I now think that they should keep Lupul and trade Kessel.

It's the same old story with any great player we have.  Until the Leafs build a proper team around him, Kessel won't be able to lead the Leafs anywhere.  If Kessel were traded to a good team, with other players around him to help his game, I could see him blossoming into a 45-50 goal scorer (which he nearly is with the Leafs and is trending up towards), and then people will complain "why did we trade Kessel away, look he's scoring 50 goals now!"

You can't win with this team or the fans.  The Leafs stink pure and simple.  Kessel is NOT the problem.  Everyone else that does nothing is.

I agree with all of that.

What do you think we could get for Kessel? Is Kessel + anything good enough for/are the Islanders dumb enough to trade Tavares?

Not necessarily him, but if we're going to start over which we really should - Id like to get a good young center like him to start around.

 

[Zee]

At best Kessel is a complimentary player. Lupul seems to be able to elevate Kessel's game - not the other way around. I used to think that the Leafs shoudl trade Lupul while his value is high. I now think that they should keep Lupul and trade Kessel.

It's the same old story with any great player we have.  Until the Leafs build a proper team around him, Kessel won't be able to lead the Leafs anywhere.  If Kessel were traded to a good team, with other players around him to help his game, I could see him blossoming into a 45-50 goal scorer (which he nearly is with the Leafs and is trending up towards), and then people will complain "why did we trade Kessel away, look he's scoring 50 goals now!"

You can't win with this team or the fans.  The Leafs stink pure and simple.  Kessel is NOT the problem.  Everyone else that does nothing is.

I agree that Kessel would be more valuable if there was a quality team built around him. That is why I suggest that he is a complimentary player and not a cornerstone. The fact that Burke brought him in as a cornerstone is not Kessel's fault. But I do not have to appreciate him in the role that he has anymore than I do. Kessel would be more valuable to the Leafs if he was traded.

How?  What would you expect to get for Kessel if he was traded in the summer?

 

[Fanatic]

At best Kessel is a complimentary player. Lupul seems to be able to elevate Kessel's game - not the other way around. I used to think that the Leafs shoudl trade Lupul while his value is high. I now think that they should keep Lupul and trade Kessel.

It's the same old story with any great player we have.  Until the Leafs build a proper team around him, Kessel won't be able to lead the Leafs anywhere.  If Kessel were traded to a good team, with other players around him to help his game, I could see him blossoming into a 45-50 goal scorer (which he nearly is with the Leafs and is trending up towards), and then people will complain "why did we trade Kessel away, look he's scoring 50 goals now!"

You can't win with this team or the fans.  The Leafs stink pure and simple.  Kessel is NOT the problem.  Everyone else that does nothing is.

I agree that Kessel would be more valuable if there was a quality team built around him. That is why I suggest that he is a complimentary player and not a cornerstone. The fact that Burke brought him in as a cornerstone is not Kessel's fault. But I do not have to appreciate him in the role that he has anymore than I do. Kessel would be more valuable to the Leafs if he was traded.

How?  What would you expect to get for Kessel if he was traded in the summer?

Anything less than Edmonton's next two first round picks would mean that he is losing value.

 

[Zee]

At best Kessel is a complimentary player. Lupul seems to be able to elevate Kessel's game - not the other way around. I used to think that the Leafs shoudl trade Lupul while his value is high. I now think that they should keep Lupul and trade Kessel.

It's the same old story with any great player we have.  Until the Leafs build a proper team around him, Kessel won't be able to lead the Leafs anywhere.  If Kessel were traded to a good team, with other players around him to help his game, I could see him blossoming into a 45-50 goal scorer (which he nearly is with the Leafs and is trending up towards), and then people will complain "why did we trade Kessel away, look he's scoring 50 goals now!"

You can't win with this team or the fans.  The Leafs stink pure and simple.  Kessel is NOT the problem.  Everyone else that does nothing is.

I agree that Kessel would be more valuable if there was a quality team built around him. That is why I suggest that he is a complimentary player and not a cornerstone. The fact that Burke brought him in as a cornerstone is not Kessel's fault. But I do not have to appreciate him in the role that he has anymore than I do. Kessel would be more valuable to the Leafs if he was traded.

How?  What would you expect to get for Kessel if he was traded in the summer?

Anything less than Edmonton's next two first round picks would mean that he is losing value.

So let's say we manage to trade Kessel to Edmonton for their next two first round draft picks.  Edmonton's players are getting older and maturing, they suddenly "click" next season with Kessel scoring 50 goals, and they make the playoffs.  The Leafs first round pick from them becomes 20th overall, good?

 

[Fanatic]

So let's say we manage to trade Kessel to Edmonton for their next two first round draft picks.  Edmonton's players are getting older and maturing, they suddenly "click" next season with Kessel scoring 50 goals, and they make the playoffs.  The Leafs first round pick from them becomes 20th overall, good?

I think you might be missing my point.

 

[Kessel_81]

So let's say we manage to trade Kessel to Edmonton for their next two first round draft picks.  Edmonton's players are getting older and maturing, they suddenly "click" next season with Kessel scoring 50 goals, and they make the playoffs.  The Leafs first round pick from them becomes 20th overall, good?

I think you might be missing my point.

you should go take a hike

 

[Fanatic]

So let's say we manage to trade Kessel to Edmonton for their next two first round draft picks.  Edmonton's players are getting older and maturing, they suddenly "click" next season with Kessel scoring 50 goals, and they make the playoffs.  The Leafs first round pick from them becomes 20th overall, good?

I think you might be missing my point.

you should go take a hike

Oh okay then.

I know you carry the man's name around and such, but I am still entitled to my opinion of him even if it turns your day upside down to hear such things.

 

[TML fan]

So let's say we manage to trade Kessel to Edmonton for their next two first round draft picks.  Edmonton's players are getting older and maturing, they suddenly "click" next season with Kessel scoring 50 goals, and they make the playoffs.  The Leafs first round pick from them becomes 20th overall, good?

I think you might be missing my point.

I think he's right on point. If you're right about Kessel, then the Leafs are not going to get anywhere near the value of what they gave up for him. If you're wrong, then the Leafs just gave away one of the elite scorers in the NHL.

Either way, it looks to me like Kessel is a player worth holding onto.

If we're dumping Kessel, why stop there? Why not Gardiner too? Lupul? Grabovski? If we're gonna tear it down, should it not be all the way?

The better Kessel gets, the more people want to get rid of him....

 

[Fanatic]

So let's say we manage to trade Kessel to Edmonton for their next two first round draft picks.  Edmonton's players are getting older and maturing, they suddenly "click" next season with Kessel scoring 50 goals, and they make the playoffs.  The Leafs first round pick from them becomes 20th overall, good?

I think you might be missing my point.

I think he's right on point. If you're right about Kessel, then the Leafs are not going to get anywhere near the value of what they gave up for him. If you're wrong, then the Leafs just gave away one of the elite scorers in the NHL.

Either way, it looks to me like Kessel is a player worth holding onto.

If we're dumping Kessel, why stop there? Why not Gardiner too? Lupul? Grabovski? If we're gonna tear it down, should it not be all the way?

The better Kessel gets, the more people want to get rid of him....

The fact that you would mention Gardiner's name is absurd. Even the most agressive tear down in NHL history would leave him firmly planted in Toronto.  And if you think that, in terms of assets on a club that needs to find its identity, that Kessel and Gardiner should be mentioned in the same breath you are in left field.

 

[Oracle]

I'm not sure why so many people are keen to trade Kessel when he's arguably the only Leaf who's done what he was payed to do this year, besides Lupul and possibly Grabo. I don't buy this notion of him not being a player you "build your team around". Why would you build your team around any player? A team is a mesh, not a hub and spoke. Kessel has a role, and that's to score goals, he's a sniper, period. So he can't dig in corners, who cares, corner diggers are a dime a dozen....players who can finish, like Kessel, are the rarity. Last I checked he was tied for 4th in scoring. I call that mission accomplished. He's a keeper.

 

[Kessel_81]

I'm not sure why so many people are keen to trade Kessel when he's arguably the only Leaf who's done what he was payed to do this year, besides Lupul and possibly Grabo. I don't buy this notion of him not being a player you "build your team around". Why would you build your team around any player? A team is a mesh, not a hub and spoke. Kessel has a role, and that's to score goals, he's a sniper, period. So he can't dig in corners, who cares, corner diggers are a dime a dozen....players who can finish, like Kessel, are the rarity. Last I checked he was tied for 4th in scoring. I call that mission accomplished. He's a keeper.

A-FREAKlNG-MEN

 

[TML fan]

Fanatic, Kessel is not the reason this team lacks identity. He's one of the few guys who actually knows his role and does it well.

Why do you think a guy like Gardiner is a fixture but a 24 year old PROVEN elite goal scorer has no place?

 

[TML fan]

I'm not sure why so many people are keen to trade Kessel when he's arguably the only Leaf who's done what he was payed to do this year, besides Lupul and possibly Grabo. I don't buy this notion of him not being a player you "build your team around". Why would you build your team around any player? A team is a mesh, not a hub and spoke. Kessel has a role, and that's to score goals, he's a sniper, period. So he can't dig in corners, who cares, corner diggers are a dime a dozen....players who can finish, like Kessel, are the rarity. Last I checked he was tied for 4th in scoring. I call that mission accomplished. He's a keeper.

Well said.

 

[Kin]

I'm not sure why so many people are keen to trade Kessel when he's arguably the only Leaf who's done what he was payed to do this year, besides Lupul and possibly Grabo. I don't buy this notion of him not being a player you "build your team around". Why would you build your team around any player? A team is a mesh, not a hub and spoke. Kessel has a role, and that's to score goals, he's a sniper, period. So he can't dig in corners, who cares, corner diggers are a dime a dozen....players who can finish, like Kessel, are the rarity. Last I checked he was tied for 4th in scoring. I call that mission accomplished. He's a keeper.

I'm not so sure why so many people discuss the possibility of trading a player without even considering the return.

 

[bustaheims]

I'm not so sure why so many people discuss the possibility of trading a player without even considering the return.

While that's a fair point, the impression I get from the majority of the people who want to trade Kessel is that they're not considering the return either, they just want him off the team for whatever reason.

 

[Kin]

While that's a fair point, the impression I get from the majority of the people who want to trade Kessel is that they're not considering the return either, they just want him off the team for whatever reason.

That's not the impression I get but regardless two wrongs in this case don't make a right. I think there's a legitimate discussion about whether or not Kessel should be on the team going forward.

 

[ZBBM]

While that's a fair point, the impression I get from the majority of the people who want to trade Kessel is that they're not considering the return either, they just want him off the team for whatever reason.

That's not the impression I get but regardless two wrongs in this case don't make a right. I think there's a legitimate discussion about whether or not Kessel should be on the team going forward.

Absolutely.  Hooray that Phil's a pure sniper and he's done that.  He and his line are also atrocious defensively so the net result is, arguably (and reasonably so), negative.

For the record I've never said trade Kessel at any cost.  In fact, in the summer strategy thread I said trade him for a good return.  Which he would fetch.

How anyone can seriously claim that Kessel is untouchable is beyond me.  If we get get Parise or Nash back in some kind of equitable deal, I would ship him out in a minute because he's too one-dimensional.  The one dimension he is good at -- as I have said on many occasions, and only a fool would deny -- he's world-class at.  My contention is that that's not enough for this particular team at this particular time.

 

[maplesyrup]

I'm with ZBBM on this. I'd be shocked though to see another team trade a superstar for Kessel + some other pieces.

 

[maplesyrup]

I should also add that I don't think (like ZBBM does) that Kessel is wrong for this team. I think he's the type of player you can still win with with some other pieces.

 

[Fanatic]

For the record, I don't care much for Phil. He's not my type of player really. But I love the Leafs hand I want what is best for them. For that reason I believe that Kessel's should be traded now while his value is high.