Playoffs Round 2: Toronto Maple Leafs vs. Florida Panthers

[Zee]

I know this sounds crazy, but I think they can still pull this off.

Luck has totally been on Florida's side.  They've won  6 straight, and their goalie has gotten a lot of bounces.  I think the Leafs just need to take it a shift at a time.

One game at a time baby. Twitter is on fire with people wanting to trade everyone. Imagine if Twitter existed in 1942 when Leafs were down 0-3?

 

[OldTimeHockey]

Unless Samsonov is really hurt, and the pain is hurting his play, I think you stick with him. He's not playing overly different from how he was playing in the season. That goal to start the 2nd wasn't a strong goal but it's one that goalies let in all the time. It dipped about 6 inches right at the perfect spot. Right above the pad. The problem with that goal is it came at the absolute worst time in the game. It sucked the life out of the bench and the building, which led to the 3rd Florida Goal.

*Keep in mind that despite the Leafs very strong play in the 1st period of game 2, and the very little shots they gave up, the chances against required incredible saves by Samsonov. So, the SV% may look like crap, but the saves he was making allowed the Leafs to carry the play.

Ok but Bob in comparison has faced a ton of difficult chances as well. Quality of shot matters obviously but the Leafs have been doing that to Bob too for the most part.

Great, but Bobrovsky playing lights out doesn't mean that Samsonov is playing poorly and needs to be demoted.
That's like saying Jack Eichel should be benched because Draisaitl has 6 goals in 2 games.

The idea that Sammy is facing quality chances so we should go easy on him or is playing good enough because the other team is getting quality chances is kind of ridicukous. If two goalies are facing each other and one is handily out duelling the other while facing more difficult chances against then I really don't see a problem in seeing if you can do better with another goalie, especially if he's injured which, like I said, it looks like Sammy is.

I don't agree at all. This isn't a one on one battle. Samsonov is/was doing his job. The scorers aren't/weren't. They've scored 2 goals for in 5 straight games. I mean, we could see if there's a goalie out there that could go get them a 3rd or 4th goal.

Unfortunately, asking a goalie to give up 1 goal a game or he's pulled is pretty ridiculous in itself.

As an aside, Woll played quite well from what I saw last night. If Samsonov can't go, Woll will be fine.

 

[Bill_Berg]

Goaltending has been fine this series. Problem is the top four and all the goals they aren't scoring. 

 

[Guilt Trip]

Gifting goals is a major problem and the Leafs did plenty of that in a tight series.

 

[L K]

I'd probably counter that the goaltending has been ok.  It's not the reason we are losing but we have also had a few questionable goals that offset some of the big saves.  Vasilevskiy was not great in round 1 but Bobrovsky has outplayed our goaltending in this series

 

[Bender]

I'd probably counter that the goaltending has been ok.  It's not the reason we are losing but we have also had a few questionable goals that offset some of the big saves.  Vasilevskiy was not great in round 1 but Bobrovsky has outplayed our goaltending in this series

That's the thing. You can't afford to let bad ones in, even if you save good ones if the other goalie is on fire. I wouldn't be talking about Sammy if I didn't see a couple bad goals from him in this series, although as I said, sub .900 goaltending in the playoffs will eventually sink you.

 

[Bender]

Unless Samsonov is really hurt, and the pain is hurting his play, I think you stick with him. He's not playing overly different from how he was playing in the season. That goal to start the 2nd wasn't a strong goal but it's one that goalies let in all the time. It dipped about 6 inches right at the perfect spot. Right above the pad. The problem with that goal is it came at the absolute worst time in the game. It sucked the life out of the bench and the building, which led to the 3rd Florida Goal.

*Keep in mind that despite the Leafs very strong play in the 1st period of game 2, and the very little shots they gave up, the chances against required incredible saves by Samsonov. So, the SV% may look like crap, but the saves he was making allowed the Leafs to carry the play.

Ok but Bob in comparison has faced a ton of difficult chances as well. Quality of shot matters obviously but the Leafs have been doing that to Bob too for the most part.

Great, but Bobrovsky playing lights out doesn't mean that Samsonov is playing poorly and needs to be demoted.
That's like saying Jack Eichel should be benched because Draisaitl has 6 goals in 2 games.

The idea that Sammy is facing quality chances so we should go easy on him or is playing good enough because the other team is getting quality chances is kind of ridicukous. If two goalies are facing each other and one is handily out duelling the other while facing more difficult chances against then I really don't see a problem in seeing if you can do better with another goalie, especially if he's injured which, like I said, it looks like Sammy is.

I don't agree at all. This isn't a one on one battle. Samsonov is/was doing his job. The scorers aren't/weren't. They've scored 2 goals for in 5 straight games. I mean, we could see if there's a goalie out there that could go get them a 3rd or 4th goal.

Unfortunately, asking a goalie to give up 1 goal a game or he's pulled is pretty ridiculous in itself.

As an aside, Woll played quite well from what I saw last night. If Samsonov can't go, Woll will be fine.

Nowhere did I say the scorers were doing enough and nowhere did I say "This is all Sammy's fault". It's on them too, but you hope that at least stopping a would be stinker would buy them more time to get one. And now he's actually injured and Woll had to go into Game 3 cold during a powerplay. I know those aren't the circumstances I'd want my backup to start in.

The scorers haven't shown up, I agree, but sub .900 in the playoffs will eventually sink you as well and not acknowledging both is kind of silly.

 

[Guilt Trip]

I'd probably counter that the goaltending has been ok.  It's not the reason we are losing but we have also had a few questionable goals that offset some of the big saves.  Vasilevskiy was not great in round 1 but Bobrovsky has outplayed our goaltending in this series

That's the thing. You can't afford to let bad ones in, even if you save good ones if the other goalie is on fire. I wouldn't be talking about Sammy if I didn't see a couple bad goals from him in this series, although as I said, sub .900 goaltending in the playoffs will eventually sink you.

And that's it in a nutshell. Game 2, regardless of the Willy turnover, you need a save there and it wasn't like it was an amazing shot. Same with the eventual winner. Yes it was a breakaway but he looked awful on it. Again needed a save there. We didn't need Sammy to be necessarily better then the other goalie, we just can't have any soft goals in a tight series.

 

[Kin]

I think this comes back to what I said earlier about trying to win with scrap heap goalies in the playoffs. If the Leafs having success in the playoffs really boils down to their goalie basically never being able to make a mistake then, quite frankly, the team as constituted is almost certainly never going to win and, realistically, they almost certainly will need 4-5 years to develop a goalie capable of playing at that sort of level.

 

[Bill_Berg]

I think this comes back to what I said earlier about trying to win with scrap heap goalies in the playoffs. If the Leafs having success in the playoffs really boils down to their goalie basically never being able to make a mistake then, quite frankly, the team as constituted is almost certainly never going to win and, realistically, they almost certainly will need 4-5 years to develop a goalie capable of playing at that sort of level.

4-5 years to have a chance to develop a goalie like that. Goalies are a real crap shoot in any given year. Other than maybe a handful of guys.

 

[Guilt Trip]

I think this comes back to what I said earlier about trying to win with scrap heap goalies in the playoffs. If the Leafs having success in the playoffs really boils down to their goalie basically never being able to make a mistake then, quite frankly, the team as constituted is almost certainly never going to win and, realistically, they almost certainly will need 4-5 years to develop a goalie capable of playing at that sort of level.

I think they have that goalie and there are a few more developing.
As for making a mistake. That goes for any goalie. They're killers in tight games and the playoffs. From Freddie, to Jack to Sammy now. Floater goals can't go in end of story. Look at Ullmark. Too many soft goals killed Boston. Col game 7. Korpisalo for LA..brilliant but let in too many stoppable goals at critical times. Markstrom last year for Calgary. Smith for EDM last year. You have to make those stoppable saves.
 

 

[Kin]

As for making a mistake. That goes for any goalie.

I mean, it doesn't. When Florida beat Boston 7-5 it's not like the five that Bobrovsky let in were all top corner snipes. If your team is scoring you can survive bad goals.

But that wasn't really my point. There tends to be a pattern to the goalies who win the cup and the Leafs, at least as yet, do not have anyone who matches that.

 

[ZBBM]

If we want to lay down Biggest Blame in this series I go with the Core 4 with goose eggs in the Goals column.  You can't survive that. 

 

[Guru Tugginmypuddah]

If we want to lay down Biggest Blame in this series I go with the Core 4 with goose eggs in the Goals column.  You can't survive that. 

Hockey is a pretty simple game really.  Score more goals than the other guys, and you win.  Now admittedly, actually accomplishing that simple goal is easier said than done.

When the players on your team who are paid the most to score, don't score is when you have a problem. This brings us back to the original simplicity of the game, which is, score more than the other guys. 

The only two players who scored last night were two players who weren't even on this team 2 months ago, who's combined cap hit isn't even $2 million dollars a year.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

I get where everyone is coming from on the 2nd goal in game 2(though I'd ask how many people have tried to stop a 75-85 mph knuckle ball slapshot)....But that giveaway was just as poor. No one is calling for Nylander to be out. Matthews give away on the 3rd goal was also a risky move, at the blue line, that ended up in the back of the net. No one is calling for him to be changed. The bottom line is, if you give away the puck in the grey zones(both bluelines) the puck eventually finds it's way behind the goalie. Toronto has been extremely guilty of it this season and it's only been highlighted in these two series.

Want to send a message? Start the next PP with Nylander on the first PP and Marner on the bench. Better yet, start it with Kampf and Lafferty(the two best players for most of the game yesterday).

Scoring 2 goals a game is not going to win you a series. I'd like to see a playoff series won by a team with 8 goals scored in their 4 wins. The only one I can find is Vegas sweeping the Kings a couple years ago. They outscored them 7-3. Other than that, there's no evidence that scoring 2 goals a game will win you a 7 game playoff series. I don't think we'll see that change anytime soon.

Bobrovsky being outplayed by Samsonov is not the problem with the team or this series. Toronto's players looking listless and having 14 shots in two periods of a game that's a must win is a problem. Toronto's highest paid player not getting a shot on net until the 3rd period is a problem. Toronto's top scorer this year being almost invisible in a must win game is a problem. Toronto's coach, not figuring that out after year after year examples of this very same thing is a problem.

 

[rdowdall]

I get where everyone is coming from on the 2nd goal in game 2(though I'd ask how many people have tried to stop a 75-85 mph knuckle ball slapshot)....But that giveaway was just as poor. No one is calling for Nylander to be out. Matthews give away on the 3rd goal was also a risky move, at the blue line, that ended up in the back of the net. No one is calling for him to be changed. The bottom line is, if you give away the puck in the grey zones(both bluelines) the puck eventually finds it's way behind the goalie. Toronto has been extremely guilty of it this season and it's only been highlighted in these two series.

Want to send a message? Start the next PP with Nylander on the first PP and Marner on the bench. Better yet, start it with Kampf and Lafferty(the two best players for most of the game yesterday).

Scoring 2 goals a game is not going to win you a series. I'd like to see a playoff series won by a team with 8 goals scored in their 4 wins. The only one I can find is Vegas sweeping the Kings a couple years ago. They outscored them 7-3. Other than that, there's no evidence that scoring 2 goals a game will win you a 7 game playoff series. I don't think we'll see that change anytime soon.

Bobrovsky being outplayed by Samsonov is not the problem with the team or this series. Toronto's players looking listless and having 14 shots in two periods of a game that's a must win is a problem. Toronto's highest paid player not getting a shot on net until the 3rd period is a problem. Toronto's top scorer this year being almost invisible in a must win game is a problem. Toronto's coach, not figuring that out after year after year examples of this very same thing is a problem.

Sounds like the Leafs need Vanilla Ice on the payroll.  And I quote:

"If you have a problem, yo I'll solve it, check out the hook while my D.J. revolves it"

He hints at his problem-solving strategy early on in the song too with "Stop, collaborate and listen". 

Although to be fair, he says "a" problem, not four. But maybe he has a rate plan.

 

[cabber24]

Maybe in a couple more seasons, they can work their way up to 6 playoff wins in a singular season. Wouldn't that be epic?

 

[Bill_Berg]

Maybe in a couple more seasons, they can work their way up to 6 playoff wins in a singular season. Wouldn't that be epic?

Means another series win then! If it's good enough for Matthews, Marner and co, it's good enough for me!

 

[Kaberle15]

You can't win playoff games when you are scoring 2 or less per game. Either our core 4 offense erupts or Woll can pull out a Felix and as a startet get 3 shoutouts in a roll.

But it does not look good.

 

[L K]

Round 1 - Holl on for 14 of 21 Tampa goals
Round 2 - McCabe on for 8 of 10 Florida goals