Post Mortem

[Bullfrog]

Am I the only one uncomfortable getting rid of Reimer? If Bernier gets injured next year, I don't want to be stuck with a 900K washed up backup. No one in the Leafs system is ready for a backup role. I've got no problem with Macintyre in a very limited role, but I'd try to smooth out the Bernier/Reimer situation.

 

[Redleaf]

While I appreciate your enthusiasm, there's no way Nashville makes that deal. Trading Weber is a franchise changing move for them, and that's not enough to entire them (and, if Weber is available, that wouldn't be the best offer out there, either). I don't think Florida trade Gudbranson for that package, either.

Hey bustaheims,

Getting another break here from responsibilities to expound my methods of madness on the 5 players I suggested:

The players I usually pick to get for the Leafs are usually not realistic but embody what I think is needed.  So the players I suggest break down in my mind this way:

Weber - after watching few Nashville games I noticed that, like Phaneuf, Weber makes some bad passes, sometimes pinches when he shouldn't, sometimes gets skated around on a rush from a speedy forward and has a rocket of a shot that sometimes misses the net.  Weber is going to make a staggering $53 MIL the next 4 years compared to Phaneuf's $28 MIL.  So why to I doggedly suggest him?  Like everyone else here I would love the Leafs to have a big 6'4" dman that can play against other teams top players, have decent mobility and score goals.  Can a 'Shea Weber' be developed in the Leafs system?  I don't know.  He not only was not the top dman drafted his draft year, he wasn't even Nashville's 1st dman drafted his draft year.  He was Nashville's 3rd dman drafted.    Will the Leafs 3rd dman drafted this year become a 'Shea Weber'? Don't know.  Boston's franchise players Chara 3rd RD NYI, Rask 21st overall TOR,  Lucic late 2nd RD 2006 are all way outside the top 10 picks in the draft and only one is a Boston draft pick.  Shea Weber would change the attitude and culture on the Leafs D corps  enough that including Phaneuf in the trade would hurt but would make sense.  Phaneuf and Lupul for Shea Weber??

****chance to get 'the' Shea Weber - unrealistic but that is the kind of player I want...like everyone else****

Gudbranson - another stereotype for me that if a different player fit it I would happily switch to the other player.  Big, smooth skating, tough but not looking for fights and has a rocket of a shot.  ****chance to get Erik Gudbranson - unrealistic but that is the kind of player I want****

E Kane - fast, hits, great shot and can fight middleweights if forced to BUT has had problems on and off the ice with coaches and fans.  ****chance to get Evander Kane - realistic if he is what the Leafs need for the price asked by Winnipeg****

Bortuzzo - another stereotype for me that if a different player fit it I would happily switch to the other player.  Big, tough and can fight to protect his team mates if needed.  ****chance to get Rob Bortuzzo - realistic since with a healthy d corps this week Pittsburgh scratched Bortuzzo and Engelland but if Pittsburgh doesn't include him in their top 6 you realize he is more comparable to Mark Fraser than Shea Weber****

UFA goalie - $.9 - $1 MIL will snag a good one.

Anyway, that is why my trades are unfortunately ludicrous. As you guys graciously comment on them I try to think of other ways to make them happen. 

It doesn't hurt to dream.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Am I the only one uncomfortable getting rid of Reimer? If Bernier gets injured next year, I don't want to be stuck with a 900K washed up backup. No one in the Leafs system is ready for a backup role. I've got no problem with Macintyre in a very limited role, but I'd try to smooth out the Bernier/Reimer situation.

I can't see Reimer wanting to come back with Carlyle as coach. Not that Reimer has a vendetta against him or something, but he clearly knows that he doesn't have his trust, and that's not a good environment for him. Maybe if DeBoer comes in as speculated he'll give it another season as obviously Pete has shown he can run a two-goalie system. 

 

[Tigger]

Am I the only one uncomfortable getting rid of Reimer? If Bernier gets injured next year, I don't want to be stuck with a 900K washed up backup. No one in the Leafs system is ready for a backup role. I've got no problem with Macintyre in a very limited role, but I'd try to smooth out the Bernier/Reimer situation.

I mentioned in some other thread whether there would even be a choice to bring him back, not sure but I think his quote from after the game kind of sealed it. You can't have enough good goaltending and the Leafs will miss him if he follows through.

 

[BlueWhiteBlood]

Am I the only one uncomfortable getting rid of Reimer? If Bernier gets injured next year, I don't want to be stuck with a 900K washed up backup. No one in the Leafs system is ready for a backup role. I've got no problem with Macintyre in a very limited role, but I'd try to smooth out the Bernier/Reimer situation.

I mentioned in some other thread whether there would even be a choice to bring him back, not sure but I think his quote from after the game kind of sealed it. You can't have enough good goaltending and the Leafs will miss him if he follows through.

I missed that, what did he say?

 

[Tigger]

Am I the only one uncomfortable getting rid of Reimer? If Bernier gets injured next year, I don't want to be stuck with a 900K washed up backup. No one in the Leafs system is ready for a backup role. I've got no problem with Macintyre in a very limited role, but I'd try to smooth out the Bernier/Reimer situation.

I mentioned in some other thread whether there would even be a choice to bring him back, not sure but I think his quote from after the game kind of sealed it. You can't have enough good goaltending and the Leafs will miss him if he follows through.

I missed that, what did he say?

Something about his last game ( presumably about being a Leaf ) being memorable.

 

[93forever]

Am I the only one uncomfortable getting rid of Reimer? If Bernier gets injured next year, I don't want to be stuck with a 900K washed up backup. No one in the Leafs system is ready for a backup role. I've got no problem with Macintyre in a very limited role, but I'd try to smooth out the Bernier/Reimer situation.

I mentioned in some other thread whether there would even be a choice to bring him back, not sure but I think his quote from after the game kind of sealed it. You can't have enough good goaltending and the Leafs will miss him if he follows through.

I missed that, what did he say?

Something about his last game ( presumably about being a Leaf ) being memorable.

A new coach could come in and offer Reimer a peace offering.  It would mean a 50-50 split in GP but if Reimer is offered the #1 job with another team, I think he is gone 

 

[BlueWhiteBlood]

Something about his last game ( presumably about being a Leaf ) being memorable.

Reimer is a tough read, he surely sees the writing on the wall, most of us did at the beginning of the season. I hope he stays, but I doubt it.

He is still an RFA and an asset for the Leafs, so Reims has limited control. I've already glanced at the roster and assets of the Jets like a shopping list.

 

[Bullfrog]

A new coach could come in and offer Reimer a peace offering.  It would mean a 50-50 split in GP but if Reimer is offered the #1 job with another team, I think he is gone 

I guess it depends on what he's offered, but I'd assume the Leafs will match. At the very least so they get good value in trading him. I doubt he'll be offered enough to make the compensatory draft picks worth it, but you never know.

 

[Bullfrog]

Am I the only one uncomfortable getting rid of Reimer? If Bernier gets injured next year, I don't want to be stuck with a 900K washed up backup. No one in the Leafs system is ready for a backup role. I've got no problem with Macintyre in a very limited role, but I'd try to smooth out the Bernier/Reimer situation.

I can't see Reimer wanting to come back with Carlyle as coach. Not that Reimer has a vendetta against him or something, but he clearly knows that he doesn't have his trust, and that's not a good environment for him. Maybe if DeBoer comes in as speculated he'll give it another season as obviously Pete has shown he can run a two-goalie system.

Well, I'm of course assuming that Carlyle is gone.

 

[ZBBM]

Final points rankings from MotM thread:
Kessel, Bernier 34
Reimer 28.5
Lupul, Gardiner 26
Rielly 21
Bozak 20
van Riemsdyk 18
Raymond 15
Kadri 13
Phaneuf 12
Kulemin 11
Bodie, Holland, Gleason 7
McClement 6
Bolland, Gunnarsson 4
Clarkson, Smith, Franson 2
Leivo 1
McIntyre 0.5
Abbott, Ashton, Broll, D'Amigo, Devane, MacLaren, McKegg, Orr, Smithson, Fraser, Granberg, Liles, Ranger 0

Looking at these rankings, I have a few thoughts:

1.  The fact the 2 of the top 3 vote-getters are goalies is the brightest news out of this mess of a season.  The Leafs have struggled with goaltending for so long, and now it appears we have a legitimate starter.  I understand Reimer's desire to be the #1 somewhere, but it's really too bad for us because I like the Bernier-Reimer tandem better than any we've had since I started following the team.

2.  It's ridiculous the number of regular players who got 6 or fewer points.  McClement I would give a pass to except that the PK was back to being terrible this year.  Gunnarsson I do give a pass to because the type of game he plays never garners recognition.  But Clarkson, Franson, MacLaren, Orr, Ranger ... yikes.

3.  Disappointments
* Kadri.  Say what you will about his linemates etc., but I was hoping for much more sustained high-end play from him.
* Kulemin. Yes intangibles defensive responsibility yes yes but the guy needs to score more, period.
* Ranger. 
* McClement.  Maybe my biggest disappointment.  I don't know if the passive PK philosophy neutered last year's McClement but whatever the case, going from top to bottom 5 was a disaster.

4.  Hard to criticize but still....
* Kessel and JVR's fade at the end.  Sigh.
* Reimer's failing to step up at crunch time.  Sigh.
* Bernier's bonehead goals.  Ay carumba.

MVP
Bernier

HMs
Kessel
Reimer

Goat-in-Chief
Clarkson

(Dis)HMs
Phaneuf
Franson

 

[hap_leaf]

I think the goalies being the top point-getters is just an indication of how bad the team is.  It only shows how much they had to be relied on in their unsustainable system.

 

[pmrules]

The team finished 3 - 13 in their last 16 games. 

In that time, Kessel scored only 7 points.  JVR had 8.  Kadri had 6 points.  Phaneuf had 5 points. Kulemin had 1 point.

Lupul had 6 pts in 12 games.

Gardiner scored 13 points in those 16 games.

Our best core players weren't the best players when we needed them to be.  I wouldn't mind a severe shake up of this core.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

The team finished 3 - 13 in their last 16 games. 

In that time, Kessel scored only 7 points.  JVR had 8.  Kadri had 6 points.  Phaneuf had 5 points. Kulemin had 1 point.

Lupul had 6 pts in 12 games.

Gardiner scored 13 points in those 16 games.

Our best core players weren't the best players when we needed them to be.  I wouldn't mind a severe shake up of this core.

They wouldn't have even been in a playoff position if it wasn't for Kessel/Bozak/JVR carrying the team all season.  They were overplayed and many people commented that they wouldn't be surprised if they wore down towards the end of the season.  Would you have rather they didn't produce as much earlier in the year and produced more towards the end instead?  They're the last to criticize on the team.

 

[L K]

The team finished 3 - 13 in their last 16 games. 

In that time, Kessel scored only 7 points.  JVR had 8.  Kadri had 6 points.  Phaneuf had 5 points. Kulemin had 1 point.

Lupul had 6 pts in 12 games.

Gardiner scored 13 points in those 16 games.

Our best core players weren't the best players when we needed them to be.  I wouldn't mind a severe shake up of this core.

They wouldn't have even been in a playoff position if it wasn't for Kessel/Bozak/JVR carrying the team all season.  They were overplayed and many people commented that they wouldn't be surprised if they wore down towards the end of the season.  Would you have rather they didn't produce as much earlier in the year and produced more towards the end instead?  They're the last to criticize on the team.

Yeah, I mean, knowing full well that this was a year with a condensed schedule and that Kessel/JVR were locks for the Olympic team, Carlyle overplayed them pretty heavily in the first half of the year.  We can say it was because of a 4th line with Orr/McLaren on it, but even when he had guys like McClement/Bodie on the 4th line, he would only play them 5-7 minutes despite playing them for 12-15 when they weren't on the 4th line.  Carlyle just didn't believe in playing more than 3 lines.  The fatigue in the 1st line really showed at the end of the year IMO.

 

[Highlander]

Should have posted this here:  Franson and Gleason out, Gunnerson out in a package trade for something we need. Change the coach and keep Reimer.  Let go of Bolland, Orr, Raymond put Clarkson on the 4th line, hire a new coach. Bring up Percy and Granburg, Leivo and Broll amongst others.  Plan parade and take two aspirin in the morning.  Oh and get a first line Centre.

 

[nutman]

I have been reading a lot about the changes that are needed, and the one that comes out and just dazzles my mind is the goalies.

We are one of the best teams in the NHL in net, yet all I keep hearing is bye bye Reimer. This my friends is the last thing that the management needs to mess with. sign Reimer, and work on that defense issue.

One more thing ...Komorov  get it done, we need this guy in our bottom six more than anyone.

 

[Joe S.]

I've asked this previously, not sure if it was this thread or another, but has there been a worse collapse in the NHL in the last 30 or so years? I'm not sure how one could look this up, but I just can't remember a team being 3d in the conference and  then falling to 12th in the span of a month to end the season.

It's just ridiculous - this is far worse than game 7 against Boston.

 

[pmrules]

The team finished 3 - 13 in their last 16 games. 

In that time, Kessel scored only 7 points.  JVR had 8.  Kadri had 6 points.  Phaneuf had 5 points. Kulemin had 1 point.

Lupul had 6 pts in 12 games.

Gardiner scored 13 points in those 16 games.

Our best core players weren't the best players when we needed them to be.  I wouldn't mind a severe shake up of this core.

They wouldn't have even been in a playoff position if it wasn't for Kessel/Bozak/JVR carrying the team all season.  They were overplayed and many people commented that they wouldn't be surprised if they wore down towards the end of the season.  Would you have rather they didn't produce as much earlier in the year and produced more towards the end instead?  They're the last to criticize on the team.

Yeah, I mean, knowing full well that this was a year with a condensed schedule and that Kessel/JVR were locks for the Olympic team, Carlyle overplayed them pretty heavily in the first half of the year.  We can say it was because of a 4th line with Orr/McLaren on it, but even when he had guys like McClement/Bodie on the 4th line, he would only play them 5-7 minutes despite playing them for 12-15 when they weren't on the 4th line.  Carlyle just didn't believe in playing more than 3 lines.  The fatigue in the 1st line really showed at the end of the year IMO.

You guys both need to hold the players up to a higher bar.  It would be something if it was the first time this happened.  It's happened Three years in a row under different coaches in increasingly epic proportions.  There is something fundamentally wrong with the core players on this team.

As much credit as JVR/Bozak/Kessel deserve for the first 3/4 of the season (and they absolutely do deserve everything they get), they deserve as much blame for the last 1/4 of the season.  They just didn't get it done.  They absolutely do not get a free pass just because they were good for the first 3/4 of the season.  You guys can go easy on them and give them a multitude of excuses (tired, olympics, blame the coach, blame the 4th line for not playing an extra 2-3 minutes blah blah blah) - I won't.  My bar is much higher for the best players on this team than either of yours.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I've asked this previously, not sure if it was this thread or another, but has there been a worse collapse in the NHL in the last 30 or so years? I'm not sure how one could look this up, but I just can't remember a team being 3d in the conference and  then falling to 12th in the span of a month to end the season.

It's just ridiculous - this is far worse than game 7 against Boston.

Some I can find:

Phoenix was in 4th in 08-09 at the all-star break and finished 14th. 

Vancouver in 07-08 were something like 4th in the conference with 8 games to go, lost 7 of them and finished in 10th.

In 2010-11 Colorado was leading their division in December, was still in the playoffs by the all-star break but lost 20 of 21 games in February/March and finished 29th.