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R1, G5: sens @ Maple Leafs - Apr. 29th, 7:00pm - SN, Fan 590

Pacioretty absolutely needs to go back to the pressbox. I'd say Holmberg does, too. Outside of drawing penalties, he's done basically nothing. Put McMann on L2 in his place. Sure, he hasn't been able to put the puck in, but at least he's been finishing his checks - which is more than you can say for Holmberg.
 
Top two lines mostly stymied last night; felt very familiar because it was pretty much the same way they got stuffed by Columbus and Montreal etc. Packed defensive shell + counter attack once Ottawa had the lead (off a high uncalled pick).

Offensively, trying to do everything with control + tic-tac plays, rather than what was successful for much of the year: deliberate chaos puck through forcing turnovers or zipping the puck behind their defense for rush chances. And to Ottawa's credit, they were quite often first to loose pucks, which makes the game way easier.
 
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bustaheims said:
Pacioretty absolutely needs to go back to the pressbox. I'd say Holmberg does, too. Outside of drawing penalties, he's done basically nothing. Put McMann on L2 in his place. Sure, he hasn't been able to put the puck in, but at least he's been finishing his checks - which is more than you can say for Holmberg.
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Yep. Berube inserted Pacioretty into Game 3, the Leafs won, and he took that as confirmation it was a good decision. But then they lose Game 4, and Pacioretty contributes nothing in his second straight game, yet Berube still keeps him in for Game 5. He even had last change at home and could’ve sheltered Robertson instead. It just doesn’t make sense. Now they're on the road so I wouldn't go with Robertson for game 6, but I think Kampf should draw in for Pacioretty - extra center that can PK. Move Holmberg off that Tavares line and put McMann back up, at least he can score.
 
bustaheims said:
The only game they didn't show up in was last night. The depth has barely shown up throughout the series. The 5 guys you're calling out have 8 of the team's 15 goals. Add in Knies, and that covers 11 of them. The rest of the roster has 4 goals - 3 from the defence. You can't win when no one else contributes.
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For as much as 34 and 16 didn't show up, they still accounted for 7 of the 10 high danger chances the Leafs had 5v5. 34 with 23 and 16 had an XGF% of 84% at 5v5.
 
L K said:
Laughton/Lorentz/Jarnkrok - 15 GP 0G 2A combined
Domi/Holmberg/McMann/Robertson/Pacciorretty - 20GP 1G 2A combined
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McMann's been the biggest disappointment in this group to me. This is a guy we all thought would have been a real difference maker in the playoffs last year if it wasn't for his injury. He's been just as noticeable in these ones as he was last year.

The one bright spot to this little, hopefully temporary, implosion is it should hopefully force Berube into not sticking with these same lines just because they were winning. Holmberg in the top-6 isn't sustainable. And I agree with you the Laughton line doing what its doing isn't really sustainable for winning either. Especially not deeper into the playoffs.

Team needs to slot a much more appropriate player into the 2LW spot. They need to build a real 3rd line around Laughton. And they can leave the 4th line as a quick shift dead minutes unit but with Kampf instead. Can all of that happen? I dunno, maybe not with this group.
 
Zee said:
Yep. Berube inserted Pacioretty into Game 3, the Leafs won, and he took that as confirmation it was a good decision. But then they lose Game 4, and Pacioretty contributes nothing in his second straight game, yet Berube still keeps him in for Game 5. He even had last change at home and could’ve sheltered Robertson instead. It just doesn’t make sense. Now they're on the road so I wouldn't go with Robertson for game 6, but I think Kampf should draw in for Pacioretty - extra center that can PK. Move Holmberg off that Tavares line and put McMann back up, at least he can score.
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Put Kampf at 4C and put Laughton as 2LW or at 3C with 89 and 11 on wing. McMann has done zero to warrant the promotion but he can go to L2 if Laughton goes 3C.. He has 2 apples in his last 16 games. Laughton has been very good but is playing with 2 stiffs. And I'm putting 89 back in. They need speed and his work ethic.
 
Zee said:
Yep. Berube inserted Pacioretty into Game 3, the Leafs won, and he took that as confirmation it was a good decision. But then they lose Game 4, and Pacioretty contributes nothing in his second straight game, yet Berube still keeps him in for Game 5. He even had last change at home and could’ve sheltered Robertson instead. It just doesn’t make sense. Now they're on the road so I wouldn't go with Robertson for game 6, but I think Kampf should draw in for Pacioretty - extra center that can PK. Move Holmberg off that Tavares line and put McMann back up, at least he can score.
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Can he? Bobby McMann's last goal was on March 25th. That's 11 regular season games + 5 playoff games since his last goal. He has 3 goals in the 33 games (28 regular season + 5 playoff) since the 4Nations break.

I think they should put Robertson AND Kampf in for Game 6. Holmberg out. Paccioretty out.

I think you have to put McMann on Line 2 because there really isn't a better option at this point....ALTHOUGH and this is never going to happen. Matthews can't score right now. He's a better facilitator than goal scorer. This seems like a scenario where Matthews-Nylander seems like it might not be the worst thing.

I guess if you went Lorentz-Kampf-Jarnkrok - Domi-Robertson-McMann - Lorentz-Tavares-Nylander - Matthews-Marner-Knies it might be an ok thing to try but it's still less than ideal.
 
L K said:
I think they should put Robertson AND Kampf in for Game 6. Holmberg out. Paccioretty out.

I think you have to put McMann on Line 2 because there really isn't a better option at this point....ALTHOUGH and this is never going to happen. Matthews can't score right now. He's a better facilitator than goal scorer. This seems like a scenario where Matthews-Nylander seems like it might not be the worst thing.
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That's exactly where I'm at too:

Knies-Matthews-Nylander
McMann-Tavares-Marner
Domi-Laughton-Robertson
Lorentz-Kampf-Jarnkrok

Not sure what's more likely though: Berube taking his new golden boy Holmberg out of the line-up or splitting up 34+16, which he's done significantly less than even Keefe ever did
 
SPORTS ILLUSTRATED

JULY 2045


"The legendary Leaf players known 20 years ago as the "Core4" in Matthews, Marner, Tavares and Nylander went 1 and 15 in deciding games before they were broken up after getting knocked out of the first round in 2025.

Mathematically, the chances of a coin flipping heads 15 times on 16 flips is infinitesimally small at 0.0002.

20 seasons later and it's a record that no other team nor player has come close to breaking. A true spectacular feat in professional sports that stuns even the Dallas Cowboys and Buffalo Bill's to this day."
 
CarltonTheBear said:
That's exactly where I'm at too:

Knies-Matthews-Nylander
McMann-Tavares-Marner
Domi-Laughton-Robertson
Lorentz-Kampf-Jarnkrok

Not sure what's more likely though: Berube taking his new golden boy Holmberg out of the line-up or splitting up 34+16, which he's done significantly less than even Keefe ever did
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I think this is possibly the best solution to stabilize all the lines even tho I'd like to see Laughton get a shot on L2. Can't leave Domi as 3C tho.
 
Guilt Trip said:
I think this is possibly the best solution to stabilize all the lines even tho I'd like to see Laughton get a shot on L2. Can't leave Domi as 3C tho.
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Yeah I'd like to see Laughton get a chance higher in the line-up too but it leaves the 3rd line as either too weak defensively (if Domi is 3C) or not strong enough offensively (if Holmberg or Kampf is 3C).
 
Guilt Trip said:
This was the big mistake Berube made. Yes 89 took a bad penalty in game 2. GM 1s penalty came after the game was over. It happens but other then that, he worked his ass off out there. He was also instrumental in the OT winner in GM 2. So Berube goes against the change a winning lineup theme and took him out and now L3 has been a tire fire. With 89, L3 gave up 3 scoring chances, (1 high danger) and had 3 chances for. With Patches, L3 has given up 32, (10 high danger) and had 6 for. That's not a good trend and I'm shocked that he didn't put 89 back in last night especially after L3 with Patches had given up 24 scoring chances in 2 games.
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Berube has done a pretty good job at tweaking the line up. I was surprised he didn't insert Robertson for Game 5. This team needed a spark offensively and Robertson could have provided that. As you point out, the 3rd line hasn't been better defensively with Patches in the line up.
 
Just win, and we can quit having this conversation. It's one game this playoff that they have crapped the bed. The PTSD this team has given us is impossible to ignore. If this were Matthews' rookie year, we would all be pretty thrilled with a 3-2 series lead even after winning the first 3.
 
Not that either of Domi or McMann deserves to be in the top-6, but I'd try to put all the defensively vapid players with a strong defensive forward/centre:

Knies Matthews Domi
McMann Tavares Marner
Robertson Kampf Nylander
Lorentz Laughton Jarnkrok

I feel that would be a difficult forward grouping to properly match against
 
bustaheims said:
Or recognize that a hockey game is not a coinflip. There are a lot more variables and a lower proportion of constants
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Also "Just win" isn't good enough for me at this point. We "just won" two years ago against Tampa and then proceeded to get filled in by the Panthers and then played the same can't score when it matters hockey against Boston the next year.

We win Game 6 (or Game 7) and then face Florida and lose that series...I don't care if we outplay the heck out of them. This team needs to win "just win" at least 2 rounds before I even entertain any semblance of this team moving forward.
 
bustaheims said:
The core was bad last night, but where is the supporting cast? Outside of Matthews/Marner/Tavares/Nylander/Knies, the rest of the forwards have scored all of 1 goal. That's jsut not good enough. And don't give me that BS about the team not being able to afford depth because of the core 4's contracts. It's an oversimplified and surface level response, and it's also, quite frankly, not the truth. Other teams have guys in similar pay ranges to the Leafs' depth players that contribute. You don't have playoff success without guys lower in the lineup stepping up, and, year after year, the Leafs haven't gotten that.
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I disagree to some extent about the cap left over to support having a decent bottom six. Leafs overpaid all our guys and that started after their elc’s when they hadn’t won anything. Regardless the other issue has been trading away high picks at the deadline to put us over the top. So not much cap and no decent prospects to maybe jump in and contribute in the bottom six. You all know my stance on this core. I’ve said it before it’s not just about winning it’s about showing up and far too often it’s basically a no show with the core. The video of Leafs talk I posted JD Bunkis said you want Matthews to be noticeable but said it would have been better if he wasn’t because he was so bad. I really don’t get it how over the years we’ve seen the same scenario. That’s why I said they should have went a different route and dismantled it.
 
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