Randy Carlyle/Leaf Coach thread

[GhostofPotvin29]

Horacheck is out in Florida.

Florida was a team specifically mentioned by Dreger as a team that would be interested in Carlyle if he was let go.

@Hope_Smoke

Dreger "Carlyle will be hired within a week of being fired, if he is, and a team that would be interested is Florida"

 

[bustaheims]

If they are indeed going to fire him, do it already. They man needs to start looking for another job - have they forgotten that?

Or come out and give him a vote of confidence that he ain't going no where.

If they "fire" him, they still have to pay him for the final year of his contract - NHL coaches and executives have guaranteed contracts, so, they aren't so much fired as they are relieved of their duties. He doesn't have to look for another job right away if he doesn't want to. It's also not like the coaching openings in the NHL are being filled. There was another opening created today and I expect there will be more created in the next couple weeks.

 

[AvroArrow]

Hitchcock?

If he couldn't get the Blues out of the first round 2 years in a row with the goalies and defensemen he did have, what chance does he have with the [sarcasm] defensive gems [/sarcasm] that we currently have?

I blame Miller for their loss this year.  That guy let in more softies than most of our recent goalies, save for Toskala.

 

[Redleaf]

Scott Stevens as head coach? Wow never thought of that. So many different emotions come up thinking of what it would be like to have him in that role here.

I don't think he would ever leave NJ. He's tied to Lou's hip.

I would be surprised if the Blues let Hitch go. That team is built completely around his style of play.

As mc mentioned earlier Hitchcock is the type of coach the Leafs need and with the Blues being eliminated, they may see a need to have a new coach in place to get the Blues over the next hurdle so he he may become expendable to the Blues and available to the Leafs.

We can only hope.  I wanted them to hire Hitchcock after he was canned in Columbus after the 2009/2010 season.  He wasn't hired in St. Louis until November of 2011, so the Leafs could have fired Wilson after the 2010-2011 season in April (his 3rd full season) and hired Hitch then.

It kind of makes me wonder why an accomplished guy, with a winning record over his career would want to come to this organization after looking at what happened to the last two guys that tried to make a difference in Toronto.

What happened to the last two guys that would make someone else not want to come here?

Nothing. They paraded through the streets as champions. :

So what?  They didn't have success with the team, they were either fired or, in Carlyle's case, not fired yet.  That's pretty much the deal when you hire a coach, they know that.  Wilson, even if I prefer him to Carlyle, had multiple seasons with the Leafs.  They know it's a results-based business.  If it is an experienced coach, then chances are the only reason they would be able to come to the Leafs is because they've been fired.  Won't make any difference.

I suspect, like most individuals in their careers, have a reputation they would like to maintain. If given the choice, I would assume most GMs would prefer to go to a team that is winning now, and is not necessarily a reclamation project.

Generally, with a few exceptions, if a team is winning now they aren't going to be firing their coach.  If they are, there are likely to be some serious issues the coach will have to deal with regardless.

There are many reasons GMs and coaches get let to, or are not resigned, regardless of their abilities or their records.

But, getting back to the topic at hand...you didn't respond to my reply about why most coaches would probably try and avoid Toronto, at least if teams with better records are offering coaching jobs as well.

It certainly didn't work out well for either Wilson or Carlyle (TBD) in the wasteland of coaches that is Toronto. Why would a coach with choices come to the Leafs and start the job with a severe uphill climb if they could avoid it somewhere else?

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I did answer that.  If you choose to ignore my response to it that is your prerogative.

 

[Redleaf]

I did answer that.  If you choose to ignore my response to it that is your prerogative.

I honestly don't see your response as to why you think a coach would want to come to the Leafs if he had better options. Your reply was that winning coaches usually don't leave those organizations.

 

[bustaheims]

AnsarKhanMLive: Holland said he will not grant permission for other teams to speak with Grand Rapids coach Jeff Blashill, who has one year remaining on deal

A significant candidate for the various coaching vacancies around the league is now off the table, for now.

 

[Kin]

I hope people, especially the "MLSE should model themselves after the Red Wings" crowd, remember this for future reference. If you've got a talented employee under contract...keep him.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I did answer that.  If you choose to ignore my response to it that is your prerogative.

I honestly don't see your response as to why you think a coach would want to come to the Leafs if he had better options. Your reply was that winning coaches usually don't leave those organizations.

My reply was basically what makes the Leafs situation different from any other situation?  Coaches know they will be fired, so Leafs coaches being fired/not having success shouldn't be an issue for them, it comes with the terrain.  I don't see any reason a coach would not want to coach the Leafs, from a purely hockey standpoint.  I can't comment on other, personal reasons.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I hope people, especially the "MLSE should model themselves after the Red Wings" crowd, remember this for future reference. If you've got a talented employee under contract...keep him.

I find it odd how often teams let their guys go. Detroit is pretty much the only organization in the NHL that does this I think. They held onto Nill for a very long time even though other teams were calling about him.

If you sign an assistant GM or an AHL coach to a 4-year contract,  he should be expected to fulfil that obligation. He shouldn't make a fuss because the team won't let him out of his contract in year 3.

 

[Kin]

I find it odd how often teams let their guys go. Detroit is pretty much the only organization in the NHL that does this I think. They held onto Nill for a very long time even though other teams were calling about him.

If you sign an assistant GM or an AHL coach to a 4-year contract,  he should be expected to fulfil that obligation. He shouldn't make a fuss because the team won't let him out of his contract in year 3.

I've never understood it. To me letting a coach or executive go a year early makes as much sense as letting a player do the same thing. Nobody is going to pass on a job offer from the Red Wings as a result and, if they do, I don't really think there's a shortage of people who would take their place.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

I did answer that.  If you choose to ignore my response to it that is your prerogative.

I honestly don't see your response as to why you think a coach would want to come to the Leafs if he had better options. Your reply was that winning coaches usually don't leave those organizations.

My reply was basically what makes the Leafs situation different from any other situation?  Coaches know they will be fired, so Leafs coaches being fired/not having success shouldn't be an issue for them, it comes with the terrain.  I don't see any reason a coach would not want to coach the Leafs, from a purely hockey standpoint.  I can't comment on other, personal reasons.

I could see a coach not wanting to deal with the Media in Toronto much the same way some players don't want to deal with the microscope.

 

[proteus2000]

I did answer that.  If you choose to ignore my response to it that is your prerogative.

I honestly don't see your response as to why you think a coach would want to come to the Leafs if he had better options. Your reply was that winning coaches usually don't leave those organizations.

My reply was basically what makes the Leafs situation different from any other situation?  Coaches know they will be fired, so Leafs coaches being fired/not having success shouldn't be an issue for them, it comes with the terrain.  I don't see any reason a coach would not want to coach the Leafs, from a purely hockey standpoint.  I can't comment on other, personal reasons.

I could see a coach not wanting to deal with the Media in Toronto much the same way some players don't want to deal with the microscope.

Something Toronto can offer is guaranteed $$$ over multiple years. We could pay Hitchcock twice as much as what St. Louis can if we want.

For Hitchcock, maybe he's sick of having great seasons then running into the defending stanley cup champion. Maybe it's time for a new challenge (a big one at that if he would be willing to come to Toronto).

His goaltending didn't match the other team in the playoffs over the past 2 years. I don't hang the Blues losses on coaching.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I did answer that.  If you choose to ignore my response to it that is your prerogative.

I honestly don't see your response as to why you think a coach would want to come to the Leafs if he had better options. Your reply was that winning coaches usually don't leave those organizations.

My reply was basically what makes the Leafs situation different from any other situation?  Coaches know they will be fired, so Leafs coaches being fired/not having success shouldn't be an issue for them, it comes with the terrain.  I don't see any reason a coach would not want to coach the Leafs, from a purely hockey standpoint.  I can't comment on other, personal reasons.

I could see a coach not wanting to deal with the Media in Toronto much the same way some players don't want to deal with the microscope.

Would depend on the individual coach and I can't really comment on that aspect of it.

 

[MetalRaven]

I hope people, especially the "MLSE should model themselves after the Red Wings" crowd, remember this for future reference. If you've got a talented employee under contract...keep him.

Can you please explain this to me? Im not trying to be an a, I just really don't see where that statement can be made. I want to believe, I really do.

I look at the way he interacts with the players...Terrible.
I look at his system...Terrible. Its either not working or he cant get the players to buy into it...either way its Terrible.
I look at his adaptability....Terrible. He cant adapt to different playing styles from what ive seen.
I look at his decisions when it comes to playing time.............this is a family site.
I look at his development of youth...I couldnt type it all without laughing.
I look at who plays vs who doesn't...*shrugs* I give up. Seriously.
Motivation? Not that ive seen.
Building a team culture? "Survey Says!?" *buzz*

I can't think of anything else that I attribute to a coach or his duties.

You have to be seeing something im not. Some diamond hidden in this pile of dung.

Can you please show me?

 

[bustaheims]

Can you please explain this to me? Im not trying to be an a, I just really don't see where that statement can be made. I want to believe, I really do.

I look at the way he interacts with the players...Terrible.
I look at his system...Terrible. Its either not working or he cant get the players to buy into it...either way its Terrible.
I look at his adaptability....Terrible. He cant adapt to different playing styles from what ive seen.
I look at his decisions when it comes to playing time.............this is a family site.
I look at his development of youth...I couldnt type it all without laughing.
I look at who plays vs who doesn't...*shrugs* I give up. Seriously.
Motivation? Not that ive seen.
Building a team culture? "Survey Says!?" *buzz*

I can't think of anything else that I attribute to a coach or his duties.

You have to be seeing something im not. Some diamond hidden in this pile of dung.

Can you please show me?

I don't think Nik is referring to Carlyle specifically with his statement.

 

[Kin]

Yeah, that was in reference to Blashill and the contrast between the Red Wings and the way the Leafs have dealt with similar situations.

 

[MetalRaven]

Can you please explain this to me? Im not trying to be an a, I just really don't see where that statement can be made. I want to believe, I really do.

I look at the way he interacts with the players...Terrible.
I look at his system...Terrible. Its either not working or he cant get the players to buy into it...either way its Terrible.
I look at his adaptability....Terrible. He cant adapt to different playing styles from what ive seen.
I look at his decisions when it comes to playing time.............this is a family site.
I look at his development of youth...I couldnt type it all without laughing.
I look at who plays vs who doesn't...*shrugs* I give up. Seriously.
Motivation? Not that ive seen.
Building a team culture? "Survey Says!?" *buzz*

I can't think of anything else that I attribute to a coach or his duties.

You have to be seeing something im not. Some diamond hidden in this pile of dung.

Can you please show me?

I don't think Nik is referring to Carlyle specifically with his statement.

I assumed he meant the "Fire Randy" Crowd, as he seems to be the only employee people are calling to get rid of. Its mostly because I have no clue who the " "MLSE should model themselves after the Red Wings" crowd" is. I dont even know what crowd im supposed to be in.

Forget that I addressed it the way I did, I believe my request is still valid.

Can anyone at all show me?

 

[MetalRaven]

Yeah, that was in reference to Blashill and the contrast between the Red Wings and the way the Leafs have dealt with similar situations.

Gotcha. (kinda like the Eakins thing) Sorry. But, ignoring that little mistake, id still like your opinion on whether we should keep Carlyle or not. If anyone has a well thought out argument as to why we should keep him I assume it would be you.

 

[Kin]

Gotcha. (kinda like the Eakins thing) Sorry. But, ignoring that little mistake, id still like your opinion on whether we should keep Carlyle or not. If anyone has a well thought out argument as to why we should keep him I assume it would be you.

I've said before that I don't really have a strong opinion one way or the other as, just in general, I very much question the overall impact a coach has on his team's record, good or bad. I think the problems with this team are so much deeper than coaching that fretting about who the coach is right now is along the lines of looking to hire someone to Captain a boat before you decide on whether that boat is going to be the QE2 or the Kon-Tiki.

But on a personal level, as someone who genuinely enjoys interesting discussions surrounding the team, I'd be fine with firing him and replacing him with someone who does everything by whatever book people are using as the standard just to change the subject.