Randy Carlyle/Leaf Coach thread

[Redleaf]

I personally think a different coaching strategy could potentially do a lot to clean up the defensive mess, but maybe that's just wishful thinking.  Wilson and Maurice were both touted as defensive coaches and they never got it done.

At the same time, Maurice and Wilson had a major weakness in the most important part of the lineup that, whereas Carlyle has that as his teams' biggest strength. Maurice and Wilson also didn't have the same overall level of talent to work with. While I don't think either Maurice or Wilson were/are the best coaches, if you gave them the same level of goaltending Carlyle has been privileged to receive, their teams would have been significantly better. Neither of them saw their teams outshot this drastically on this frequent a basis.

I'd love for you to get a chance to prove your theory, but I'd be afraid the minute the Leafs went into a tailspin under a new head coach you'd say they got the wrong guy again. It's easy to say 'fire the coach', but doing that every time the team goes south creates more problems than it solves. Once again.... Carlyle isn't the problem with this team, he's just the easiest guy to blame.

 

[Andy007]

The calls for Carlyle's firing are hilarious. You do know it's not happening, right?

It's not hilarious because he should be fired. The team is a mess that is being saved by goaltending and Phil Kessel.

But you're right, it won't happen, even though it absolutely should.

 

[bustaheims]

I'd love for you to get a chance to prove your theory, but I'd be afraid the minute the Leafs went into a tailspin under a new head coach you'd say they got the wrong guy again. It's easy to say 'fire the coach', but doing that every time the team goes south creates more problems than it solves. Once again ...coaching isn't the problem with this team, he's just the easiest guy to blame.

Just because you keep saying it doesn't make you right. The biggest issue with this team is a tactical one. There's absolutely no reason why a team with this level of talent filled with guys who have been in the league for 4 or more seasons should be being outshot by this amount on a regular basis. Even inexperienced teams do better than this. It's also not like this is just a Carlyle with the Leafs issue, either. His last few seasons in Anaheim went the same way - those teams were also among the worst in the league in shots allowed per game. Carlyle may be the easiest guy to blame, sure, but that doesn't mean he's the wrong guy to blame, either. He is absolutely part of the problem with this team - and possibly the biggest part. And, while you're right that the next guy might not be any better, that doesn't make the decision to hold on to the current guy a good one or the right one when that guy is pretty clearly not the right coach for this group.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

The calls for Carlyle's firing are hilarious. You do know it's not happening, right?

What does that have to do with discussing the merits of his coaching?

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I don't agree with everything Carlyle does with this lineup, but he's getting more wins than losses out of them. I'm happy with that for the time being.

Were you happy when Raycroft tied the franchise record for most wins by a goalie in a season?

 

[Highlander]

We seem to have a solid reciepe for success or failure and success is found when McClement stays on the fourth.  It seems when he is on the third we lose..someone here has the stats on this and I believe it would amazeus the win/loss percentage when McClemment is on the third.  For gods sake keep him where he belongs

 

[Redleaf]

I'd love for you to get a chance to prove your theory, but I'd be afraid the minute the Leafs went into a tailspin under a new head coach you'd say they got the wrong guy again. It's easy to say 'fire the coach', but doing that every time the team goes south creates more problems than it solves. Once again ...coaching isn't the problem with this team, he's just the easiest guy to blame.

Just because you keep saying it doesn't make you right. The biggest issue with this team is a tactical one. There's absolutely no reason why a team with this level of talent filled with guys who have been in the league for 4 or more seasons should be being outshot by this amount on a regular basis. Even inexperienced teams do better than this. It's also not like this is just a Carlyle with the Leafs issue, either. His last few seasons in Anaheim went the same way - those teams were also among the worst in the league in shots allowed per game. Carlyle may be the easiest guy to blame, sure, but that doesn't mean he's the wrong guy to blame, either. He is absolutely part of the problem with this team - and possibly the biggest part. And, while you're right that the next guy might not be any better, that doesn't make the decision to hold on to the current guy a good one or the right one when that guy is pretty clearly not the right coach for this group.

But you'd make a coaching change just for the sake of it? Which Stanley cup winning coaches are currently available that would instantly improve this club's fortunes? If you don't have a clear cut guy at the top of that list your just shuffling the deck and could ultimately make this team worse in the process. How many full seasons in Toronto has Carlyle been given? Is his team currently in the bottom third of the league? Is his team a veteran laden one that is a perennial playoff team? I guess I'm The only one that thinks he deserves the chance to develop this team into a future challenger and not a current one?

 

[TML fan]

Are we back to the Leafs missing the playoffs again after one uninspired effort?

No, but it's been a recurring theme all season, and even during the winning streak they were giving up over 3.00 goals against per game.  That's not sustainable for your offense and is not the mark of a playoff-calibre team to be giving up that many goals per game despite .915 SV% goaltending.

Yes, what last night's little excursion to Barfville shows (again, as if it needed to be demonstrated) is that this team has some intriguing talents but has nowhere near the overall chops to be considered a serious contender.  Teams that have a serious shot at the Cup usually dominate lesser teams on a regular basis; we don't. 

I personally think a different coaching strategy could potentially do a lot to clean up the defensive mess, but maybe that's just wishful thinking.  Wilson and Maurice were both touted as defensive coaches and they never got it done.

Wilson and Maurice had awful teams.

 

[Highlander]

does anyone have the win loss percentage when Mcclement plays on the 3rd line over the 4th?

 

[TML fan]

I'd love for you to get a chance to prove your theory, but I'd be afraid the minute the Leafs went into a tailspin under a new head coach you'd say they got the wrong guy again. It's easy to say 'fire the coach', but doing that every time the team goes south creates more problems than it solves. Once again ...coaching isn't the problem with this team, he's just the easiest guy to blame.

Just because you keep saying it doesn't make you right. The biggest issue with this team is a tactical one. There's absolutely no reason why a team with this level of talent filled with guys who have been in the league for 4 or more seasons should be being outshot by this amount on a regular basis. Even inexperienced teams do better than this. It's also not like this is just a Carlyle with the Leafs issue, either. His last few seasons in Anaheim went the same way - those teams were also among the worst in the league in shots allowed per game. Carlyle may be the easiest guy to blame, sure, but that doesn't mean he's the wrong guy to blame, either. He is absolutely part of the problem with this team - and possibly the biggest part. And, while you're right that the next guy might not be any better, that doesn't make the decision to hold on to the current guy a good one or the right one when that guy is pretty clearly not the right coach for this group.

But you'd make a coaching change just for the sake of it? Which Stanley cup winning coaches are currently available that would instantly improve this club's fortunes? If you don't have a clear cut guy at the top of that list your just shuffling the deck and could ultimately make this team worse in the process. How many full seasons in Toronto has Carlyle been given? Is his team currently in the bottom third of the league? Is his team a veteran laden one that is a perennial playoff team? I guess I'm The only one that thinks he deserves the chance to develop this team into a future challenger and not a current one?

It's not for the sake of it, it's because they get outplayed by teams like the Florida Panthers...consistently.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I'd love for you to get a chance to prove your theory, but I'd be afraid the minute the Leafs went into a tailspin under a new head coach you'd say they got the wrong guy again. It's easy to say 'fire the coach', but doing that every time the team goes south creates more problems than it solves. Once again ...coaching isn't the problem with this team, he's just the easiest guy to blame.

Just because you keep saying it doesn't make you right. The biggest issue with this team is a tactical one. There's absolutely no reason why a team with this level of talent filled with guys who have been in the league for 4 or more seasons should be being outshot by this amount on a regular basis. Even inexperienced teams do better than this. It's also not like this is just a Carlyle with the Leafs issue, either. His last few seasons in Anaheim went the same way - those teams were also among the worst in the league in shots allowed per game. Carlyle may be the easiest guy to blame, sure, but that doesn't mean he's the wrong guy to blame, either. He is absolutely part of the problem with this team - and possibly the biggest part. And, while you're right that the next guy might not be any better, that doesn't make the decision to hold on to the current guy a good one or the right one when that guy is pretty clearly not the right coach for this group.

But you'd make a coaching change just for the sake of it? Which Stanley cup winning coaches are currently available that would instantly improve this club's fortunes? If you don't have a clear cut guy at the top of that list your just shuffling the deck and could ultimately make this team worse in the process. How many full seasons in Toronto has Carlyle been given? Is his team currently in the bottom third of the league? Is his team a veteran laden one that is a perennial playoff team? I guess I'm The only one that thinks he deserves the chance to develop this team into a future challenger and not a current one?

It's not that young of a team (it's not old either, it's just not particularly young) and you're in the prime years of your best player right now.

 

[LuncheonMeat]

I personally think a different coaching strategy could potentially do a lot to clean up the defensive mess, but maybe that's just wishful thinking.  Wilson and Maurice were both touted as defensive coaches and they never got it done.

At the same time, Maurice and Wilson had a major weakness in the most important part of the lineup that, whereas Carlyle has that as his teams' biggest strength. Maurice and Wilson also didn't have the same overall level of talent to work with. While I don't think either Maurice or Wilson were/are the best coaches, if you gave them the same level of goaltending Carlyle has been privileged to receive, their teams would have been significantly better. Neither of them saw their teams outshot this drastically on this frequent a basis.

I would be willing to bet neither Maurice nor Wilson would have played Colton Orr 7.5 minutes last night.  I can't even wrap my head around that.  ???

 

[bustaheims]

But you'd make a coaching change just for the sake of it? Which Stanley cup winning coaches are currently available that would instantly improve this club's fortunes? If you don't have a clear cut guy at the top of that list your just shuffling the deck and could ultimately make this team worse in the process. How many full seasons in Toronto has Carlyle been given? Is his team currently in the bottom third of the league? Is his team a veteran laden one that is a perennial playoff team? I guess I'm The only one that thinks he deserves the chance to develop this team into a future challenger and not a current one?

No, I wouldn't make a coaching change just for the sake of it. I'd make one because this team has major issues that need to be dealt with, and step one of dealing with those issues is changing the coach. I also don't think changing the coach is an instant fix - I have never once been a proponent of that position. It's not going to help them this season - it's too late for that - but, if a coach with a style that better suited to the talent on the roster comes in, it will help them going forward. Also, the whole "Stanley Cup winning" thing doesn't mean jack to me. I really don't care what kind of success a coach had almost a decade ago. It's not relevant anymore. All for the rest of your arguments, Carlyle has had enough time to show what type of strategy he's intent on using and enough time to show that it's not working. He also has enough history of using this same set of strategies to show that he's unlikely to change. It also doesn't matter to me where they are in the standings when the reasons they're not in the bottom 3rd really come down to having great goaltending and being successful in the shootout - neither of which have much of anything to do with his coaching. The things he is responsible for have put the team near the bottom of the league in a number of important categories. It's also not like they're firmly entrenched in upper echelons of the league, either. They're currently 12th overall, but they're also only 7 points up on 25th. 7 points the other way would only pull them up to 8th. They're very firmly a middle of the pack team, and it wasn't all that long ago that there were very much a bottom 1/3 team, and another poor couple weeks and they'll be there again. It's not like they're a team filled with raw rookies and guys just establishing themselves in the league. The majority of the roster are established players. They may not be grizzled veterans, but they are very much experienced players.

 

[bustaheims]

I would be willing to bet neither Maurice nor Wilson would have played Colton Orr 7.5 minutes last night.  I can't even wrap my head around that.  ???

If Wilson was still coach, neither McLaren nor Orr would be a part of the organization anymore.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I would be willing to bet neither Maurice nor Wilson would have played Colton Orr 7.5 minutes last night.  I can't even wrap my head around that.  ???

If Wilson was still coach, neither McLaren nor Orr would be a part of the organization anymore.

Just to expand on that, in case anybody forgot when Wilson was the coach Burke waived Orr because Wilson wasn't play him. This is what Wilson said about Orr at the time:

?He knows what?s going on,? Leafs coach Ron Wilson said. ?He?s an intelligent guy. He sees most of the teams we?re playing don?t have toughness in their lineup, and for us to be successful, our fourth line has to play 10, 11, 12 minutes and use their speed. And the set of skills they have right now is to be good penalty killers, as well.?

 

[Kin]

I would be willing to bet neither Maurice nor Wilson would have played Colton Orr 7.5 minutes last night.  I can't even wrap my head around that.  ???

Orr actually got more or less the same ice time under Wilson that he has under Carlyle.

 

[Kin]

Just to expand on that, in case anybody forgot when Wilson was the coach Burke waived Orr because Wilson wasn't play him. This is what Wilson said about Orr at the time:

?He knows what?s going on,? Leafs coach Ron Wilson said. ?He?s an intelligent guy. He sees most of the teams we?re playing don?t have toughness in their lineup, and for us to be successful, our fourth line has to play 10, 11, 12 minutes and use their speed. And the set of skills they have right now is to be good penalty killers, as well.?

But then Jay Rosehill did play half the season under Wilson, getting 6 minutes a night. The idea that Ron Wilson didn't have time for enforcers doesn't really measure up.

 

[hap_leaf]

Just to expand on that, in case anybody forgot when Wilson was the coach Burke waived Orr because Wilson wasn't play him. This is what Wilson said about Orr at the time:

?He knows what?s going on,? Leafs coach Ron Wilson said. ?He?s an intelligent guy. He sees most of the teams we?re playing don?t have toughness in their lineup, and for us to be successful, our fourth line has to play 10, 11, 12 minutes and use their speed. And the set of skills they have right now is to be good penalty killers, as well.?

But then Jay Rosehill did play half the season under Wilson, getting 6 minutes a night. The idea that Ron Wilson didn't have time for enforcers doesn't really measure up.

Oh yeah I like Rosehill.  Mike Brown too.  They just seemed to bring a little something more than Orr.

 

[Kin]

Oh yeah I like Rosehill.  Mike Brown too.  They just seemed to bring a little something more than Orr.

I mean, Mike Brown was closer to being a real hockey player but he likely wouldn't have been in the line-up if he didn't occasionally punch people for no reason either.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

But then Jay Rosehill did play half the season under Wilson, getting 6 minutes a night. The idea that Ron Wilson didn't have time for enforcers doesn't really measure up.

Rosehill only played 16 of 64 games under Wilson that season, and just 1 after Orr was waived. When Randy was hired Rosehill became a fixture in the line-up again and played 15 of 18 games.