Sharp signs 5 year extension with Hawks.

[Tigger]

Like I said, look at Fleischmann, Florida gave him 4.5 over 4 years. Some team will pay that premium. I don't want Burke to break the bank for him either but imagine the team without him right now, like it or not that line clicks pretty fair and he's a big part of it. He's a funny player, gets knocked down a lot but he's feisty and doesn't back down plus he has really improved his overall game. It's a tough call and will depend in part on what BurkeandtheBurkettes think they can or can't replace him with.

I agree with last parts of that Tig... but God help us if we're looking to Florida as an example of how we should be building a hockey team.

I don't think I said we should look at Florida's model and see if it could work in Toronto rather that other teams choices will have an influence on cost.

 

[BlueWhiteBlood]

I think Burke would be stupid to give up on Grabo, especially if he doesn't have a concrete plan to replace him. Like Tigger says, he's a different player, but for whatever reason, he works and puts points on the board. I think he'll be even better this year and believe that Burke shouldn't take his time trying to re-sign him.

Oh I agree completely. I just have a rough comfort level (contractually) with the player. 4.5 (ish) X 4/5 is what I'd to today... What he does this year leading up to the deadline will likely change how I feel about that number. Could improve, it may decrease - it's up to Grabs.

Yeah, I guess that's a fair number right now for us, but Grabo probably feels different I would think.

For me it's not so much his pedigree that makes him a good player, it's his heart. I know that sounds weird, as we've never really seen him in the playoffs, but since he's been here, I've been rather impressed with his never die attitude for a guy that gets knocked around a fair bit. Call it intangibles or what have you, but the guy would go through a wall for our team and you can never have enough players like that. If he plays as well or better this season, which I believe he will, I think Burke should just pay him the going rate and be happy, even if it means trading a guy that we otherwise might want to keep.

 

[maplesyrup]

Yeah, I guess that's a fair number right now for us, but Grabo probably feels different I would think.

For me it's not so much his pedigree that makes him a good player, it's his heart. I know that sounds weird, as we've never really seen him in the playoffs, but since he's been here, I've been rather impressed with his never die attitude for a guy that gets knocked around a fair bit. Call it intangibles or what have you, but the guy would go through a wall for our team and you can never have enough players like that.

Yeah, I think that game vs. Boston where he got smoked by Chara and then went on to leave Thomas holding his jock strap is pretty much proof of that.

 

[Omallley]

So you're saying we'd have to pay a premium because Grabs is headed to UFA? I'm not sure I want to do that.

That isn't limited to just Grabo - that has always been the case for players hitting UFA status...

 

[dappleganger]

So you're saying we'd have to pay a premium because Grabs is headed to UFA? I'm not sure I want to do that.

That isn't limited to just Grabo - that has always been the case for players hitting UFA status...

It'll come down to whether he makes it to free agency or resigns before then. On the open market with teams bidding against one another, the salaries will rise. If he re-signs while still under contract he'll come in at a slightly decreased rate.

It's really up to Grabs. If he wants to break the bank and maximize his next contract he'll opt for free agency regardless of what Burke offers.

 

[maplesyrup]

So you're saying we'd have to pay a premium because Grabs is headed to UFA? I'm not sure I want to do that.

That isn't limited to just Grabo - that has always been the case for players hitting UFA status...

While that may be true, I'm not sure its prudent. - Unless of course Burke (or any other GM with an upcoming UFA) has mismanaged his options. 

 

[bustaheims]

While that may be true, I'm not sure its prudent. - Unless of course Burke (or any other GM with an upcoming UFA) has mismanaged his options.

Losing one of your top offensive players to free agency isn't exactly prudent either. UFAs are always going to get larger contracts than comparable RFAs simply because more teams are going to willing and able to negotiate for their services. The more buyers, the higher the price. It really has very little to do with prudence and a lot to do with simple economics. As long as Burke doesn't go significantly above fair market value (which, if Grabovski has another 25+ goal, 55+ point season, will be in the $5M-$5.5M per range depending on what happens with the CBA), it's a perfectly prudent move.

 

[maplesyrup]

Losing one of your top offensive players to free agency isn't exactly prudent either. UFAs are always going to get larger contracts than comparable RFAs simply because more teams are going to willing and able to negotiate for their services. The more buyers, the higher the price. It really has very little to do with prudence and a lot to do with simple economics. As long as Burke doesn't go significantly above fair market value (which, if Grabovski has another 25+ goal, 55+ point season, will be in the $5M-$5.5M per range depending on what happens with the CBA), it's a perfectly prudent move.

Hey, I like Grabovski as much as most guys do but you'll forgive me for taking a pass at your suggested number I hope. - At least until I see what he does for most of the year this year.

 

[bustaheims]

Hey, I like Grabovski as much as most guys do but you'll forgive me for taking a pass at your suggested number I hope. - At least until I see what he does for most of the year this year.

Well, if my choices are offering him $4.5M and losing him or offering him $5.25M and keeping him . . . I know which one I'd consider to be the smart decision (assuming he picks up where he left off last season, of course).

 

[maplesyrup]

Hey, I like Grabovski as much as most guys do but you'll forgive me for taking a pass at your suggested number I hope. - At least until I see what he does for most of the year this year.

Well, if my choices are offering him $4.5M and losing him or offering him $5.25M and keeping him . . . I know which one I'd consider to be the smart decision (assuming he picks up where he left off last season, of course).

Agreed. Like I said, it's up to Grabs.  4.5(ish) on a 4/5 year deal is today's number for me though should his agent care to shop, that's all. Which BTW, is (in my mind) a noteworthy difference from that of Sharp's deal... as it should be I think. 

 

[Kin]

Hey, I like Grabovski as much as most guys do but you'll forgive me for taking a pass at your suggested number I hope.

Pretty tough to make that claim and say that you'd be willing to lose him if he doesn't agree to a below market deal.

 

[maplesyrup]

Hey, I like Grabovski as much as most guys do but you'll forgive me for taking a pass at your suggested number I hope.

Pretty tough to make that claim and say that you'd be willing to lose him if he doesn't agree to a below market deal.

Unless of course you choose to include the other part of my post that says; "- At least until I see what he does for most of the year this year." 

 

[Kin]

Unless of course you choose to include the other part of my post that says; "- At least until I see what he does for most of the year this year." 

No, because Busta's post that you're quoting and my earlier one lay out the parameters for what next season might bring. You said that even if Grabo has another 25+ goal, 55+ point season you'd pass on his getting 5+ million per.

 

[maplesyrup]

Unless of course you choose to include the other part of my post that says; "- At least until I see what he does for most of the year this year." 

No, because Busta's post that you're quoting and my earlier one lay out the parameters for what next season might bring. You said that even if Grabo has another 25+ goal, 55+ point season you'd pass on his getting 5+ million per.

Um, no... Please see my latest reply to Busta... and don't make me rolly eyes you!

 

[Kin]

Um, no... Please see my latest reply to Busta... and don't make me rolly eyes you!

Right, this:

Agreed. Like I said, it's up to Grabs.  4.5(ish) on a 4/5 year deal is today's number for me though should his agent care to shop, that's all. Which BTW, is (in my mind) a noteworthy difference from that of Sharp's deal... as it should be I think.

Where you say you'd draw the line at a number below what Grabs could probably get on the open market. Right after you said you'd pass at 5+ if he repeats the year he just had. So, again, I think it's pretty fair to say you aren't as high on keeping Grabo around as most of us.

 

[maplesyrup]

Um, no... Please see my latest reply to Busta... and don't make me rolly eyes you!

Right, this:

Agreed. Like I said, it's up to Grabs.  4.5(ish) on a 4/5 year deal is today's number for me though should his agent care to shop, that's all. Which BTW, is (in my mind) a noteworthy difference from that of Sharp's deal... as it should be I think.

Where you say you'd draw the line at a number below what Grabs could probably get on the open market. Right after you said you'd pass at 5+ if he repeats the year he just had. So, again, I think it's pretty fair to say you aren't as high on keeping Grabo around as most of us.

You're clearly not following (and I'll spare the rolly eyes.) 4.5(ish) is where I'm at today should the player wish to get something done right now.  - Could go higher, cold go lower depending on what Grabo does from here on out. I'm not sure how I can make that more clear.  ???

 

[Kin]

You're clearly not following (and I'll spare the rolly eyes.) 4.5(ish) is where I'm at today should the player wish to get something done right now.  - Could go higher, cold go lower depending on what Grabo does from here on out. I'm not sure how I can make that more clear.  ???

So it's 4.5 right now but it could possibly go higher or lower depending on what may or may not happen in the future? How could you make that clearer? Well, for starters you could address the specific hypothetical that both Busta and myself have mentioned as what his value could be next year. You could say what you think Grabo would be worth if he has another season of similar value. But that's only if you wanted to actually address the points being made by the people you're talking to.

As is though, 4.5 is definitely lower than what Grabo could get on the open market. Personally, if I really wanted to sign him I'd acknowledge that fact and work within those parameters. Burke could decide that he wants to see how this season shakes out before offering a long-term deal but that comes with the risk of Grabo having as good or better of a season which will increase his price.

 

[maplesyrup]

So it's 4.5 right now but it could possibly go higher or lower depending on what may or may not happen in the future? How could you make that clearer?

See. I knew you weren't getting it! You answer is - because the future hasn't happened yet. I can go higher or lower at a later date (which by the way Burke is likely to do I think.) 4.5 is my price today. - This somehow is the point you're missing. If he's having a year which continue to show him on an upward trend then I sign him for a higher price at a later date (if Grabs want to remain in Toronto and Burke wants to keep him that is.)  If he takes a step back, there simply is no way in heck I sign him to a deal north of 5. 

 

[Kin]

4.5 is my price today. - This somehow is the point you're missing.

I've acknowledged that repeatedly and said that A) you're disagreeing with people who are speculating as to his future value based on what he might do(which you could do yourself) and B) it's still below what he'd fetch on the open market.

Seriously, have another cup of coffee.

 

[maplesyrup]

4.5 is my price today. - This somehow is the point you're missing.

I've acknowledged that repeatedly and said that A) you're disagreeing with people who are speculating as to his future value based on what he might do(which you could do yourself) and B) it's still below what he'd fetch on the open market.

Seriously, have another cup of coffee.

I'm actually having one now! Okay, so  5.25 or north for another 25G, 55 pt season? If those are the numbers you insist on basing the conversation on then yeah, I just might deal him if there is a fair deal to be had . Gimme 30G and 70 pts then different story.