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So the debate begins: Matthews vs. Laine

KGB said:
He'd still go with Strome ahead of Marner?  Not sure about that one at present.

[tweet]733478817944113152[/tweet]

Where skill being equal you would take the player in the tougher position (centre), it can be argued that Marner has a bit of a leg up on Strome in the skill department.

These are remarks from Scott Wheeler's draft+1 assessment with no regard for the organizational needs that might come into play with the decision.

On my personal list (that no one really cares about), I had Marner over Strome by a very small margin, but I can see why some would still put Strome ahead. Including Hanifin, they're all going to be very good players.

I thank Horachek for Marner every day.

---

The Strome/Marner conversation is very similar to the Matthews/Laine conversation, but probably just a tier below.
 
http://news.nationalpost.com/sports/nhl/top-prospect-auston-matthews-gaining-more-confidence-each-game-emerging-as-leader-at-world-hockey-championship

With each game Matthews has played in the world hockey championship, the American-born centre has seemingly aged a year. He might have looked like an in-over-his-head teenager in a 5-1 loss to Canada in his tournament debut, but after scoring the only goals for the U.S. in a 2-1 overtime shootout win against the Czech Republic on Thursday, teammates were calling him a leader.

?I think it took him a little time to get comfortable in his own skin,? U.S. captain Matt Hendricks said on Friday. ?He?s playing around some NHL players and maybe he didn?t know that he needed to be ?The Man.? Now he?s realizing that ?Hey, I can take this game over.? He definitely had an outstanding performance last night and I expect him to continue on and continue to get better and continue to get more confident.?

[...]

?Individually I?m gaining more confidence each game, so I think that?s always good,? said Matthews. ?I think as a team as well, each game you want to get better and learn from your mistakes and move forward. And I think that?s exactly what we?ve done ? It?s going to be a tough one (against Canada), but I think we?re ready.?

[...]

With Matthews and Laine pegged as the No. 1 and No. 2 picks in next month?s NHL Entry Draft, the superlatives surrounding their games are growing with each passing day. Laine, whose one-timer has actually blown away goaltenders in hilarious fan-made memes, has been called the second coming of Alex Ovechkin. Not to be outdone, U.S. forward Nick Foligno has been comparing Matthews to Jonathan Toews, otherwise known as the most complete player in the world.

It?s all a bit silly and probably only adds to the unreal and unfair pressure both players are under in a tournament where 18-year-olds are typically watching from home or at the very least playing limited minutes on the fourth line, not asked to be leaders. And yet, if the players weren?t able to handle this sort of thing, said Foligno, we wouldn?t be making the comparisons in the first place.

?I?m not trying to sound like they?re the same player,? Foligno said of the Toews comparison. ?It?s just that?s the kind of elements he can bring ? that he does bring ? that?s all I was trying to do in saying that. I wasn?t trying to put more pressure on him, although at this point, is there really any more pressure on him??

For his part, Matthews seems unfazed. After all, he?s not your normal teenager. He?s not even your normal hockey player.

[...]

When his season ended, Matthews called up skills coach Darryl Belfry, who works with John Tavares and the Toronto Maple Leafs, and spent weeks reinventing his shot. It was a curious move for a player who broke Patrick Kane?s season-single scoring record in the U.S. National Development Team. But that?s where the Toews comparison comes from.

Matthews knows he hasn?t figured it all out. He knows there is more work to do, offensively and defensively. ?I think moving onto the higher levels, it?s all about adapting,? he said. ?Goalies, defencemen, forwards are going to be better at the next level.?

During a video session after the win against Czech Republic ? a game where Matthews tucked a backhand deke through the goalie?s legs and then used his new release point to sneak a shot that arrived a second too early in the shootout ? a clip of the young centre turning the puck over was shown in front of the entire team. But so was a clip of what happened immediately after: Matthews, head down, legs churning, chasing the play back into the defensive zone.

For his older teammates, that play was even more impressive than the two goals.

?He?s a player that makes that much of a difference for a team, but sometimes the little things go unnoticed,? said Foligno. ?To me, that?s like Jonathan Toews. You don?t always realize the impact he makes in a game until after.

?I don?t think you can question anything about Auston Matthews. It will be a tough challenge to play him in the NHL one day, but I?m glad he?s on my team right now.?
 
herman said:
KGB said:
He'd still go with Strome ahead of Marner?  Not sure about that one at present.

[tweet]733478817944113152[/tweet]

Where skill being equal you would take the player in the tougher position (centre), it can be argued that Marner has a bit of a leg up on Strome in the skill department.

These are remarks from Scott Wheeler's draft+1 assessment with no regard for the organizational needs that might come into play with the decision.

On my personal list (that no one really cares about), I had Marner over Strome by a very small margin, but I can see why some would still put Strome ahead. Including Hanifin, they're all going to be very good players.

I thank Horachek for Marner every day.

---

The Strome/Marner conversation is very similar to the Matthews/Laine conversation, but probably just a tier below.

Laine is a snowmobile, Matthews is a furnace.  Or something like that.
 
bustaheims said:
KGB said:
He'd still go with Strome ahead of Marner?  Not sure about that one at present.

I imagine 5, 6, and 7 on his list are largely interchangeable. A lot of us obviously prefer Marner, but there's definitely some bias influencing that.
Yeah, bias like winning everything in the ohl ;)
 
Bender said:
herman said:
Just one guy's opinion on what the top 10 draft would look like if 15/16 were combined.
[tweet]733476214766067712[/tweet]
Straight link for Tapatalk users please?

Combining the 2015 and 2016 drafts, Scott Wheeler would rank them:

1. McDavid 2. Matthew 3. Eichel 4. Laine 5. Puljujarvi 6. Strome 7. Marner 8. Hanifin 9. Rantanen 10. Connor
 
Ah well. Issues of patriotism aside part of me did want the WC's to literally come down to Matthews vs. Laine. 
 
Heroic Shrimp said:
herman said:
KGB said:
He'd still go with Strome ahead of Marner?  Not sure about that one at present.

[tweet]733478817944113152[/tweet]

Where skill being equal you would take the player in the tougher position (centre), it can be argued that Marner has a bit of a leg up on Strome in the skill department.

These are remarks from Scott Wheeler's draft+1 assessment with no regard for the organizational needs that might come into play with the decision.

On my personal list (that no one really cares about), I had Marner over Strome by a very small margin, but I can see why some would still put Strome ahead. Including Hanifin, they're all going to be very good players.

I thank Horachek for Marner every day.

---

The Strome/Marner conversation is very similar to the Matthews/Laine conversation, but probably just a tier below.

Laine is a snowmobile, Matthews is a furnace.  Or something like that.

All I can say is that it's nice to achieve memetic immortality.
 
Comparing and putting into perspective Laine's & Matthews' points production at the 2016 Men's Worlds:

Laine?s eye-popping numbers could be inflated by who he is playing with, and against. Through nine games, he has seven goals and 12 points and his 1.33 points per game average is the third-highest production rate for an under-19 skater at the World Championship ever, trailing only Sidney Crosby's 1.78 and Anze Kopitar's 1.50, which were both registered in 2005-  06.

                        Year  GP  G  Pts  Pts/GP      L1              L2
Sidney Crosby  2006  9  8  16  1.78  P. Bergeron      B. Boyes
Anze Kopitar      2006  6  3  9  1.5  T. Razingar          M. Sotlar (D)
Patrik Laine      2016  9  7  12  1.33    A. Barkov          Jokinen
Steven Stamkos  2009  9  7  11  1.22  M. St. Louis    S. Doan
Magnus Paajarvi  2010  9  5  9  1          R. Wallin        M. Weinhandl
Auston Matthews  2016  9  6  9  1        D. Larkin        N. Foligno
Matt Duchene        2010  7  4  7  1        J. Tavares        R. Whitney
Mikael Granlund  2011  9  2  9  1          J. Immonen    J. Pesonen
Connor McDavid  2016  9  0  8  0.88    B. Marchand      M. Duchene
Jeff Skinner        2011  7  3  6  0.86      C. Stewart        J. Tavares
Jonathan Toews  2007  9  2  7  0.78      R. Nash            S. Doan
Ryan Nugent-Hopkins  2012  8  4  6  0.75  P. Sharp        J. Benn
Jack Eichel          2015  10  2    7    0.7          J. Vesey      T. Lewis


Laine's main linemates this year have been Jussi Jokinen and Aleksander Barkov, both of whom produced more than 50 points in the NHL this season. He has also spent time on the power play with Mikko Koivu and Mikael Granlund who are top-line forwards for the Minnesota Wild.

Matthews has been lining up with the Dylan Larkin and Nick Foligno in recent games, but spent the early portion of the tournament playing with a mix of Brock Nelson, Patrick Maroon, Jordan Schroeder and top Boston Bruins prospect Frank Vatrano.

American rosters are under the age of 24, with the US actually sending across four skaters who are under the age of 20, which is the largest under-20 contingent in the tournament.


youngwcplayers_zpszcvmhydq.jpg


This year?s event has the second-highest number of U20 skaters in the past 15 years, comparable to spikes that occurred in 2010, 2006 and 2003. The massive wave of U20 talent in the 2010 tournament featured future elite NHLers such as Steven Stamkos, John Tavares, Erik Karlsson, Oliver Ekman-Larsson, Victor Hedman, Matt Duchene, Nino Niederreiter, Evander Kane, Roman Josi, Sami Vantanen, Jordan Eberle, Tomas Tatar, and Chris Kreider. The wave of 2006 included Sidney Crosby, Anze Kopitar, Evgeni Malkin, Phil Kessel, and Nicklas Backstrom. The 2003 bump featured Ilya Kovalchuk, Jay Bouwmeester, Alex Semin, Frans Nielsen, and Jiri Hudler.

The amazingly high proportion of under-20 skaters at this year's World Championship -- and their excellent production against some of the best hockey players on the planet -- bodes well for the game. If the names from previous spikes in U20 participation are any indication of what we can expect out of this year's crop of prospects at the Worlds, it looks like McDavid, Laine, Matthews, Larkin, Ehlers, Mikko Rantanen, David Pastarnak and Noah Hanifin will be regular all-stars, winning individual awards and leading their teams to playoff success in the very near future.



http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/laine-matthews-worlds-putting-points-context/



 
Auston Matthews draft year tournaments:

WJC 11 points in 7 games
WC 9 points in 10 games

Jack Eichel draft year tournaments:

WJC 4 points in 5 games
WC 7 points in 10 games
 
Heck, Matthews had a better WJC's than McDavid in his draft year and a better WC's than McDavid in his draft+1.
 
So now that we've seen all the hockey that we're going to see these guys play before the Draft I guess it's time to weigh in with some sort of straw poll as to how people here feel(excepting, I suppose, the people who decided beforehand). For me, it's Matthews and I'm a little surprised to the extent to which I think he should be the choice. I started this thread because some scouts were saying Laine and obviously he showed he's going to be a heck of a player but every time I watched the USA I came away more and more excited by Matthews. He really looks like he's the real deal. He plays big, the way Sundin did, and he's always generating offense. He's got wheels, vision, hands and a shot. I can't say a ton about his defense but he definitely has the tools to be a two-way center. I'm all in. 
 
For me, it's also Matthews. I had somewhat made up my mind previous to the tournament, but I went in with an open mind. Laine is really tempting because of his high-end skill. But, Matthews has it all in my opinion. He was the clear leader on that team and seems so mature (in a hockey sense.)

Though I'm generally a 100% "best player available" type, I do find myself thinking about the team and how they fit. In that sense, I really think Matthews would really complement Marner and Nylander and Brown. It's quite possible Laine goes on to score more points, but I have to go with Matthews.

I hate to make the comparison, but I see Matthews/Marner as our Toews/Kane.
 
Nik the Trik said:
So now that we've seen all the hockey that we're going to see these guys play before the Draft I guess it's time to weigh in with some sort of straw poll as to how people here feel(excepting, I suppose, the people who decided beforehand). For me, it's Matthews and I'm a little surprised to the extent to which I think he should be the choice. I started this thread because some scouts were saying Laine and obviously he showed he's going to be a heck of a player but every time I watched the USA I came away more and more excited by Matthews. He really looks like he's the real deal. He plays big, the way Sundin did, and he's always generating offense. He's got wheels, vision, hands and a shot. I can't say a ton about his defense but he definitely has the tools to be a two-way center. I'm all in. 
Couldn't agree more. For me it's like Crosby vs OV and I'll take Crosby everytime. Matthews is a complete player and his teammates said as much when interviewed. I think it was Foligno who said he reminds him of Toews. His contributions don't always show up on the scoreboard but he does all the little things that help win games. Craig Button said the only 2 players he'd draft ahead of Matthews and Eichel since the Crosby draft were Crosby and McDavid. Tavares would be considered also. Button said, that's how good this kid is. It's exciting to be a Leafs fan.
 
#TeamMatthews

His game, while not 100% perfect all the time, is trending towards completeness.

On the ice, he uses every physical gift he has to gain position and maintain puck control. The shot is NHL-ready, and still improving. His skating is above average and looks like there is still room to improve (he doesn't have the same straightaway speed that McDavid/Eichel seem to). His hands can keep up with his brain, and he does things that no one on the ice expects him to be able to. Unlike a lot of other prolific offensive players, he backchecks routinely and effectively.

Personality-wise, he has a similar make up to the household names we hold in high esteem: competitive and obsessive about hockey. Matthews gave up what was likely a longer, more lucrative baseball career to play the game he loved more (his dad said baseball was his better sport early on). He models his game after Toews and Kopitar. He speaks with a team-first attitude, while still acknowledging his role and responsibility as a key producer. This kid wants it.

I think the Sundin comparison is apt. Matthews is a stoic on skates who can clearly put the team on his back and I hope he reaches that Sundin level of consistency. Everything Matthews already brings to the table really lines up with the type of player Shanahan and Babcock have mentioned they'd be looking for.
 
For me, it's been Matthews all along.  Much needed #1 centre the team has sorely lacked who has been ranked #1 all along since the scouting for this draft was on radar. 

Short of a career ending injury, there was absolutely nothing this tournament -- one that is considered a complete afterthought every other year -- would do to sway me from Matthews to Laine.  Choosing anyone besides Matthews at this point would be getting cute and overthinking it.
 

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