Steve Stamkos?

[Bill_Berg]

For all we know he'll start declining hard at 30, for all we know the changes to goalie equipment will amount to a goal or two.

The Leafs have enough high end talent in the system? Yikes.

Edit to add, so you'll just ignore the cap issues there, eh?

What cap issues?  How many pending premium UFA's that we want to keep, are we going to need to sign two season's from now, with only two long term contracts signed?

Its a non-issue as I've said all along.

Problem is more 4 and beyond years from now than 2.

You mean when the cap goes up, Tavares and Seguin get more than Toews and Kane money and we've had our first or second year contending for the cup?

And if he continued to contribute more or less at the level he is known for as a Leaf, his cap would be a problem and we'd want to trade him, why?

I think he was referring to the 'other' 5 years (past your 2) that Stamkos is tying up 10+ million on the cap. You know, the years when the Leafs have to re-sign all the elite prospects that their farm system is flush with.

As far as the cap going up, it has been anything but predictable the past couple of years. And if it does go up, so do player salaries. You don't just gain more room.

You mean the RFA contracts Shannyco has full control over?

Those guys are a part of it, and also potential big name free agents that actually play a position we're in dire need of. Like goalie and defensemen. A major concern is not that we can't resign Matthews if we have Stamkos, but that between the two of them, and the rest, we won't have a bunch of cap space left to sign a 10 million dollar defenseman. What we could have is too many first line centers with garbage defense. But if we just wait it out, then when the time is right, we'll know exactly what's missing and we'll have ample cap room to fill those gaps.

 

[herman]

I'm not anti-Stamkos. I love Stamkos. I wish he played for the Leafs.
I'm just anti-signing expensive long-term core players through UFA during year 1 of a rebuild.

 

[TBLeafer]

You can't assume all the prospects on the Marlies will turn into elite talent.  Who knows how many, or IF any turn into those types of players.

That's very true but that's a point the anti-Stamkos crowd has made more consistently than the pro-Stamkos crowd. The people who are loudly advocating for Stamkos to be signed in this thread are doing so on the basis of assuming that all of the Leafs' top prospects work out spectacularly and the team doesn't need any more high first round picks.

Show me a team who's core is built exclusively of all high, first round picks.

Oh right.  Edmonton.

 

[Kin]

I'm not anti-Stamkos. I love Stamkos. I wish he played for the Leafs.
I'm just anti-signing expensive long-term core players through UFA during year 1 of a rebuild.

For future clarification "pro-Stamkos" and "anti-Stamkos" in this context are referring to the Leafs signing him. I'm sure he's a lovely guy.

 

[Bill_Berg]

I'm not anti-Stamkos. I love Stamkos. I wish he played for the Leafs.
I'm just anti-signing expensive long-term core players through UFA during year 1 of a rebuild.

Ditto.

 

[TBLeafer]

I'm not anti-Stamkos. I love Stamkos. I wish he played for the Leafs.
I'm just anti-signing expensive long-term core players through UFA during year 1 of a rebuild.

Year 3.  Shanny will be starting year 3 in the fall.  His rebuild started the season his team plummeted to obtain 4th OA.

 

[Bill_Berg]

You can't assume all the prospects on the Marlies will turn into elite talent.  Who knows how many, or IF any turn into those types of players.

That's very true but that's a point the anti-Stamkos crowd has made more consistently than the pro-Stamkos crowd. The people who are loudly advocating for Stamkos to be signed in this thread are doing so on the basis of assuming that all of the Leafs' top prospects work out spectacularly and the team doesn't need any more high first round picks.

Show me a team who's core is built exclusively of all high, first round picks.

Oh right.  Edmonton.

What do you mean by exclusively? Does it have to be so blank and white? Can't I want them to sign FAs and trade for stars in a few years? Or if I am willing to say they should sign a big name FA in 2019 do I have to also think they should sign Stamkos this year?

 

[TBLeafer]

I'm sure being scared of long term expensive UFA core members has something to do with Clarkson.

Some of you must think nothing good will come out of going in and trying again.

I think you're wrong and while that fear is completely understandable, it is unnecessary when it comes to Steven f****** Stamkos.

Its STEVEN F****** STAMKOS!

 

[Bill_Berg]

Clarkson tops the list, but it's a long list.

No one is saying it's not possible that signing Stamkos would turn out to be a great move. It's just an unnecessary risk.

 

[Tigger]

I'm sure being scared of long term expensive UFA core members has something to do with Clarkson.

Some of you must think nothing good will come out of going in and trying again.

I think you're wrong and while that fear is completely understandable, it is unnecessary when it comes to Steven f****** Stamkos.

Its STEVEN F****** STAMKOS!

You keep bringing up that f word and don't seem to understand it's patience we're talking about, Clarkson is just the latest in a long list of mistakes driven by a 'win now' mentality, or even a, 'we're going to sell the team, win now' mentality. 'going in and trying again' is fine, as long as it's done correctly, this ain't that.

Also, assuming what people think and then stating that said people are wrong leaves you in a vacuum, arguing with yourself.

 

[Kin]

Show me a team who's core is built exclusively of all high, first round picks.

Oh right.  Edmonton.

That is an excellent point. Edmonton is another example of how teams don't tend to hit homeruns on all of their high draft picks. Along with Chicago and LA and Pittsburgh and the Panthers and Islanders and all of the top teams, everyone does draft some duds. 

 

[bustaheims]

I'm sure being scared of long term expensive UFA core members has something to do with Clarkson.

Some of you must think nothing good will come out of going in and trying again.

I think you're wrong and while that fear is completely understandable, it is unnecessary when it comes to Steven f****** Stamkos.

Its STEVEN F****** STAMKOS!

It's not fear of UFAs. It's never been fear of UFAs, and your classification of it as such is, quite frankly, ridiculous and dismissive.

It has nothing to do with Clarkson, either. It's about the process, and where the Leafs are in it, and what that means in terms of the types of moves that they should be making right now.

It's about waiting to see what the Leafs have, and what they will need before committing a significant amount of cap space to a player who may not fill that need.

It's about being patient, and not jumping on an opportunity because it's here now, but waiting for the right opportunity - or creating that opportunity when the time is right, which is not now.

In fact, if anyone's showing fear here, it's you and your "we have have enough prospects" mentality. You're showing fear of watching the Leafs struggle for a couple more season. You keep bringing up the Oilers, without acknowledging that the Oilers acted much more like you're suggesting the Leafs do than what those of us who are preaching patience are suggesting.

 

[nutman]

I'm not anti-Stamkos. I love Stamkos. I wish he played for the Leafs.
I'm just anti-signing expensive long-term core players through UFA during year 1 of a rebuild.

Year 3.  Shanny will be starting year 3 in the fall.  His rebuild started the season his team plummeted to obtain 4th OA.

Ok I can't refuse. Why do these guys keep saying were in year one of the rebuild. Its because there argument is not on stable ground and they know it. lol. back to observing...

 

[Tigger]

I'm not anti-Stamkos. I love Stamkos. I wish he played for the Leafs.
I'm just anti-signing expensive long-term core players through UFA during year 1 of a rebuild.

Year 3.  Shanny will be starting year 3 in the fall.  His rebuild started the season his team plummeted to obtain 4th OA.

Ok I can't refuse. Why do these guys keep saying were in year one of the rebuild. Its because there argument is not on stable ground and they know it. lol. back to observing...

If you go with year 3, that's still pretty early on in a true rebuild.

 

[louisstamos]

I'm not anti-Stamkos. I love Stamkos. I wish he played for the Leafs.
I'm just anti-signing expensive long-term core players through UFA during year 1 of a rebuild.

Year 3.  Shanny will be starting year 3 in the fall.  His rebuild started the season his team plummeted to obtain 4th OA.

Ok I can't refuse. Why do these guys keep saying were in year one of the rebuild. Its because there argument is not on stable ground and they know it. lol. back to observing...

It depends on your definition of a rebuild.  The general consensus two years ago at the beginning of the season was that the Leafs were trying to make the playoffs.  Teams that are trying to make the playoffs tend not to be "rebuilding," per say...

That said, the rebuild for me started the moment they fired Randy Carlyle.  That's when they started actively tanking.  But even if you consider that, that was 1.5 years ago.  3 seasons ago, they were in the playoff race until the whole "18-wheeler off the cliff" thing happened.

 

[Kin]

I would say without a doubt that Kulemin will yet again take another step up. i don't think were close to seeing what he can and will do in the NHL.

Here's nutman being wrong about the career of Nikolai Kulemin, without a doubt.

 

[TBLeafer]

You can't assume all the prospects on the Marlies will turn into elite talent.  Who knows how many, or IF any turn into those types of players.

That's very true but that's a point the anti-Stamkos crowd has made more consistently than the pro-Stamkos crowd. The people who are loudly advocating for Stamkos to be signed in this thread are doing so on the basis of assuming that all of the Leafs' top prospects work out spectacularly and the team doesn't need any more high first round picks.

Show me a team who's core is built exclusively of all high, first round picks.

Oh right.  Edmonton.

What do you mean by exclusively? Does it have to be so blank and white? Can't I want them to sign FAs and trade for stars in a few years? Or if I am willing to say they should sign a big name FA in 2019 do I have to also think they should sign Stamkos this year?

I think you work with what is tangible when it becomes so.  Not what may or may not be tangible a couple years down the road. Most teams generally have to trade good present and/or future assets for those pieces when the time comes that they determine that they "need" to.

 

[Zee]

I love the debate back and forth on this.  I think they can make it work either way so I'm not too worried about this.  We'll know soon enough what happens -- 17 days!

 

[nutman]

I would say without a doubt that Kulemin will yet again take another step up. i don't think were close to seeing what he can and will do in the NHL.

Here's nutman being wrong about the career of Nikolai Kulemin, without a doubt.

HaHa.. another reach.. come on grow up already. so I was wrong, I am sure it won't be the last time. I just wish I was more like you ... Never wrong , and such a nice guy to have around . keep digging bud, I am sure if you go back 5 or 10 years you will find more times I have been wrong.

 

[TBLeafer]

I love the debate back and forth on this.  I think they can make it work either way so I'm not too worried about this.  We'll know soon enough what happens -- 17 days!

I don't doubt that they could also make it work without Stamkos.  It will just take a couple seasons longer.  I'd prefer to see them contend a little sooner than the 2019-20 season given that they don't have to give up any assets to be a contender sooner.