Tank Nation UNITE!!!

[rdowdall]

So just to add to this debate, here are the all the #1 centres in the league and where they are drafted from.  Some of these are good, some of these are bad.  Because I don't get to watch all of the teams all of the time, in some cases I used TOI as an indicator of who the #1 centre on a team is.  This may lead to some discussion over who the number one centre is on a particular team.

Ananhiem - Ryan Getzlaf, Drafted by Anahiem in the 1st round, 19th overall
Arizona - Antoine Vermette, Drafted by Ottawa in the 2nd round, 55th overall
Boston - David Krejci, Drafted by Boston in the 2nd round, 63rd overall
Buffalo - Zemgus Girgensons, Drafted by Buffalo in the 1st round, 14th overall
Calgary - Sean Monahan, Drafted by Calgary in the 1st round, 6th overall
Carolina - Eric Stall, Drafted by Carolina in the 1st round, 2nd overall
Chicago - Jonathan Toews, Drafted by Chicago in the 1st round, 3rd overall
Colorado - Matt Duchene, Drafted by Colorado in the 1st round, 3rd overall
Columbus - Ryan Johansen, Drafted by Columbus in the 1st round, 4rth overall
Dallas - Tyler Seguin, Drafted by Boston in the 1st round, 2nd overall (not going to lie, this hurt)
Detroit - Pavel Datsyuk, Drafted by Detroit in the 6th round, 171st overall
Edmonton - Ryan Nugent-Hopkins, Drafted by Edmonton in the 1st round, 1st overall
Florida - Nick Bjugstad, Drafted by Florida in the 1st round, 19th overall
Los Angeles - Anze Kopitar, Drafted by Los Angles in the 1st round, 11th overall
Minnesota - Mikko Koivu, Drafted by Minnesota in the 1st round, 6th overall
Montreal - Tomas Plekanec, Drafted by Montreal in the 3rd round, 71st overall
Nashville - Mike Ribeiro, Drafted by Montreal in the 2nd round, 45th overall (this is who I think Kadri plays like)
New Jersey - Travis Zajac, Drafted by New Jersey in the 1st round, 20th overall
New York (Islanders) - John Tavares, Drafted by New York Islanders in the 1st round, 1st overall
New York (Rangers) - Derek Stepan, Drafted by New York Rangers in the 2nd round, 51st overall
Ottawa - Kyle Turris, Drafted by Arizona in the 1st round, 3rd overall
Philadelphia - Claude Giroux, Drafted by Philadelphia in the 1st round, 22nd overall
Pittsburgh - Sidney Crosby, Drafted by Pittsburgh in the 1st round, 1st overall
San Jose - Logan Couture, Drafted by San Jose in the 1st round, 9th overall
St. Louis - David Backes, Drafted by St. Louis in the 2nd round, 62nd overall
Tampa Bay - Steven Stamkos, Drafted by Tampa Bay in the 1st round, 1st overall
Toronto - Tyler Bozak, Undrafted, signed by Toronto
Vancouver - Henrik Sedin, Drafted by Vancouver in the 1st round, 3rd overall
Washington - Nicklas Backstrom, Drafted by Washington in the 1st round, 4th overall
Winnipeg - Bryan Little, Drafted by Atlanta (which is now Winnipeg), in the 1st round, 12th overall

So in that list, there are only two cases of first line centres playing on teams that did not draft them.  I think the Shanaplan should be pretty clear here.

 

[freer]

In all fairness to Bozak he was undrafted and went to college.

 

[bustaheims]

In all fairness to Bozak he was undrafted and went to college.

Hundreds of players went to college and were drafted. In fairness to Bozak, that's entirely meaningless at this point.

 

[freer]

In all fairness to Bozak he was undrafted and went to college.

Hundreds of players went to college and were drafted. In fairness to Bozak, that's entirely meaningless at this point.

He did not cost us a draft pick or prospects. 

 

[bustaheims]

He did not cost us a draft pick or prospects.

He's also not good enough to be the #1 centre on anything more than a middling team, so, the fact that he didn't cost anything other than cash . . . again, entirely meaningless at this point. It really doesn't matter where he came from. What's important is where his replacement is coming from.

 

[Kin]

In all fairness to Bozak he was undrafted and went to college.

How is that "in fairness" to Bozak? For starters it's specifically mentioned in the list and then...who cares? Does that make him more valuable than if he'd been a sixth round pick?

 

[L K]

Personally I like his career highs of 19 goals and 49 points.  I think those are the measures of greatness.  Free or not, Bozak is mediocre regardless of the measure you use to assess him.  Antoine Vermette is the only player on that list that I wouldn't trade Bozak for.

 

[freer]

He did not cost us a draft pick or prospects.

He's also not good enough to be the #1 centre on anything more than a middling team, so, the fact that he didn't cost anything other than cash . . . again, entirely meaningless at this point. It really doesn't matter where he came from. What's important is where his replacement is coming from.

Unfortunately TO has not sucked well enough to draft a "1 center".

 

[L K]

He did not cost us a draft pick or prospects.

He's also not good enough to be the #1 centre on anything more than a middling team, so, the fact that he didn't cost anything other than cash . . . again, entirely meaningless at this point. It really doesn't matter where he came from. What's important is where his replacement is coming from.

Unfortunately TO has not sucked well enough to draft a "1 center".

I think Nik covered this earlier today but yeah, they did.  His name is Tyler Seguin.

 

[Kin]

Personally I like his career highs of 19 goals and 49 points.  I think those are the measures of greatness.  Free or not, Bozak is mediocre regardless of the measure you use to assess him.  Antoine Vermette is the only player on that list that I wouldn't trade Bozak for.

I probably agree with that conclusion but Bozak for Ribeiro would be hilarious.

 

[bustaheims]

I think Nik covered this earlier today but yeah, they did.  His name is Tyler Seguin.

And, if they suck just a little longer this season, there's a few potential #1 centres in this year's draft.

 

[rdowdall]

I think Nik covered this earlier today but yeah, they did.  His name is Tyler Seguin.

And, if they suck just a little longer this season, there's a few potential #1 centres in this year's draft.

Well I haven't given up hope that they may develop Kadri in to a 1b type of first line centre.  That way if the Leafs have to draft a d-man in the first round this year that could potentially become a legitimate #1 d-man in the league then they should take it.

As much as we lament the lack of a true number one centre on the Leafs, he may already be here and we just have to be a patient a little longer.  Looking at the goal that Steen scored two Saturday's ago, it makes me leery of moving Kadri, Reilly, or Gardiner.  JVR may also fall in to that category.  I think that if you move the likes of Kessel, Phanuef, Lupul, and Bozak, and try and maximize the number of assets that you have in your system, then they increase their chances of building a pretty complete team.  There are also pieces like Nylander and Gauthier (he won't be a top 6, but I think he'll be one of the best shutdown centre's in the league) coming along as well.  It just takes time before those pieces are going to be able to contribute and dominate at the NHL level.

 

[Deebo]

12 games until the deadline.

 

[Redleaf]

Posted this in the GDT, but it really belongs here...

MacKenzie saying tonight's loss is a sign from above, and to embrace it. We went from a 6% chance of winning draft lottery to a 7.5% chance in one night.

Atta boy Bob!!! Welcome aboard!

 

[bustaheims]

Well I haven't given up hope that they may develop Kadri in to a 1b type of first line centre.  That way if the Leafs have to draft a d-man in the first round this year that could potentially become a legitimate #1 d-man in the league then they should take it.

I'd say there's a better chance they have that potential #1 d-man in Rielly than there is of Kadri becoming good enough to be the #1 centre on a Cup contending team. It's a little easier to find top pairing dmen later in the draft than it is #1 centres.

 

[bustaheims]

Leafs now own the 6th worst P% in the NHL. 5th is within reach. Top 4 still looking unlikely, but maybe not impossible.

3-15-1 in their last 19. This is what last year might have looked like if the season hadn't ended.

 

[Deebo]

If February is anything like January then nothing is impossible.

 

[rdowdall]

Well I haven't given up hope that they may develop Kadri in to a 1b type of first line centre.  That way if the Leafs have to draft a d-man in the first round this year that could potentially become a legitimate #1 d-man in the league then they should take it.

I'd say there's a better chance they have that potential #1 d-man in Rielly than there is of Kadri becoming good enough to be the #1 centre on a Cup contending team. It's a little easier to find top pairing dmen later in the draft than it is #1 centres.

I attended a seminar once that pointed out that one of the problems that we have today as a society is that we take experts opinion at face value without requesting the proof that lead to them having this opinion.

So I'm going to need you to make a chart...

 

[bustaheims]

I attended a seminar once that pointed out that one of the problems that we have today as a society is that we take experts opinion at face value without requesting the proof that lead to them having this opinion.

So I'm going to need you to make a chart...

Weber, Subban, Keith, Byfuglien, Letang, Chara, Yandle - all taken in the 2nd round or later. Same with Vatanen, Brodie, Markov, Josi, Stralman, etc. Giordano was undrafted. Karlsson, Carlson, Shattenkirk, Burns - all taken 14th or later.

Good enough?

 

[Kin]

I attended a seminar once that pointed out that one of the problems that we have today as a society is that we take experts opinion at face value without requesting the proof that lead to them having this opinion.

So I'm going to need you to make a chart...

I think it's pretty straight forward logic. The more developed a player is the easier he is to scout. Defensemen tend to take longer to develop than forwards ergo...