Tank Nation UNITE!!!

[Arn]

Short term pain for long term gain.

Although I'm not sure what long term pain for the last 9 or so years has done for us. It's been the wrong kind of pain I guess.

 

[Joe S.]

I can't disagree with the assessment the article presents. Except for the Nolan trade. I will always maintain that it was the right trade at the time.

I could be wrong but I think since the trade Nolan ended up playing more games than any of the pieces that were involved in that deal. I'll have to look that up though.

Ohh... I was wrong. Forgot it was boyes. I thought it was just macauley and a 1st.

 

[L K]

I can't disagree with the assessment the article presents. Except for the Nolan trade. I will always maintain that it was the right trade at the time.

I could be wrong bit it think since the trade Nolan ended up playing more games than any of the pieces that were involved in that deal. I'll have to look that up though.

I'm going to back the Leetch trade too.  The Leafs would have been better getting Chris Pronger rather than another offensive defenseman but they gave up a 6th round draft prospect who was a non-NHLer, an 8th round draft prospect who was a non-NHLer, a 1st round pick (24th overall) and a 2nd round draft pick for what was supposed to be a year and a half of Leetch.  They got burned by a lockout that the Leafs never wanted.  That was still a very good team.  Borderline Cup contender, but a contender nonetheless.

 

[freer]

I can't disagree with the assessment the article presents. Except for the Nolan trade. I will always maintain that it was the right trade at the time.

I could be wrong bit it think since the trade Nolan ended up playing more games than any of the pieces that were involved in that deal. I'll have to look that up though.

I'm going to back the Leetch trade too.  The Leafs would have been better getting Chris Pronger rather than another offensive defenseman but they gave up a 6th round draft prospect who was a non-NHLer, an 8th round draft prospect who was a non-NHLer, a 1st round pick (24th overall) and a 2nd round draft pick for what was supposed to be a year and a half of Leetch.  They got burned by a lockout that the Leafs never wanted.  That was still a very good team.  Borderline Cup contender, but a contender nonetheless.

I can't do it. I can't wish for a loss. I am also under the opinion that this team will not be saved by drafting McDavid. He is only one player. I am also have the same opinion of Joe S, the NHL would not let him come to Toronto anyways.

 

[Bill_Berg]

I can cheer for them to lose. They're going to lose anyway, might as well get something other than a 15th overall pick for it. Doesn't mean I'll enjoy cheering for them to lose, but enjoy and the Leafs are two words that rarely go together these days, unless the word not is in there.

 

[Arn]

I can't disagree with the assessment the article presents. Except for the Nolan trade. I will always maintain that it was the right trade at the time.

I could be wrong but I think since the trade Nolan ended up playing more games than any of the pieces that were involved in that deal. I'll have to look that up though.

Ohh... I was wrong. Forgot it was boyes. I thought it was just macauley and a 1st.

I was in Toronto that season and saw them play 3 games against Tampa, Colorado and Ottawa. I recall they won 1, lost 1 and drew 2-2 with Ottawa. The Ottawa game goes down as probably the best game of hockey I've ever seen for the combined quality of the teams, and the atmosphere in the arena.

As a Belfast native, I was of course delighted to see Nolan in the Leafs sweater too. He was also a genuine top class player at that time, and I guess we didn't know the trouble he was going to have with that knee injury.

As someone who was only really just getting into the team from around that era, little did I know it would be the beginning of a fruitless, frustrating and unrewarding relationship!

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I can't disagree with the assessment the article presents. Except for the Nolan trade. I will always maintain that it was the right trade at the time.

I could be wrong bit it think since the trade Nolan ended up playing more games than any of the pieces that were involved in that deal. I'll have to look that up though.

I'm going to back the Leetch trade too.  The Leafs would have been better getting Chris Pronger rather than another offensive defenseman but they gave up a 6th round draft prospect who was a non-NHLer, an 8th round draft prospect who was a non-NHLer, a 1st round pick (24th overall) and a 2nd round draft pick for what was supposed to be a year and a half of Leetch.  They got burned by a lockout that the Leafs never wanted.  That was still a very good team.  Borderline Cup contender, but a contender nonetheless.

I maintain if one trade was the absolute worst for the team long term, it was Rask for Raycroft.  If I absolutely had to pick one.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

And basically the conclusion from that article (hey Brendan, know you're reading) should be: don't trade anymore draft picks (exception: involves young, elite talent returning) and especially don't treat 2nd rounders like worthless commodities to include in every deal.

Oh god almost forgot about this already:

The Leafs then bought out that contract (Tim Gleason) and will have it on the books until the end of the 2018 season.

So unnecessarily dumb.

 

[bustaheims]

I maintain if one trade was the absolute worst for the team long term, it was Rask for Raycroft.  If I absolutely had to pick one.

It started them down a really bad path, yeah. The trade itself was awful, but, it also lead to the Toskala and Giguere trades. It was really just a mess.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I maintain if one trade was the absolute worst for the team long term, it was Rask for Raycroft.  If I absolutely had to pick one.

It started them down a really bad path, yeah. The trade itself was awful, but, it also lead to the Toskala and Giguere trades. It was really just a mess.

Yeah, you can just imagine so many other moves not having to happen if that deal isn't made.

 

[bustaheims]

I never root for a loss in any given game, can't do it.  But in the larger context, I hope for a great measure of tank.

It's time to gut this sucker and let the entrails sink to the bottom of the pond.

I can't really, either, until last few games of the season when they're legitimately jockeying for a better draft position. Right now, it's more that I'm less enthusiastic about wins because I see them as being fruitless endeavours.

 

[Boston Leaf]

I am all talk. I am always saying yes lets tank. lose very game etc.. then they drop the puck and I jsut cant do it. I still get excited whenever they score.. so i guess in reality count me out of tank nation.. Plus our hsitory of drafting is pretty poor. I think the scouting staff needs a huge overhaul

 

[Heroic Shrimp]

I maintain if one trade was the absolute worst for the team long term, it was Rask for Raycroft.  If I absolutely had to pick one.

It started them down a really bad path, yeah. The trade itself was awful, but, it also lead to the Toskala and Giguere trades. It was really just a mess.

Yeah, you can just imagine so many other moves not having to happen if that deal isn't made.

So who would be the 2015 player equivalent to Raycroft that we could trade Nylander for?

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I maintain if one trade was the absolute worst for the team long term, it was Rask for Raycroft.  If I absolutely had to pick one.

It started them down a really bad path, yeah. The trade itself was awful, but, it also lead to the Toskala and Giguere trades. It was really just a mess.

Yeah, you can just imagine so many other moves not having to happen if that deal isn't made.

So who would be the 2015 player equivalent to Raycroft that we could trade Nylander for?

Clarkson?

 

[Heroic Shrimp]

I maintain if one trade was the absolute worst for the team long term, it was Rask for Raycroft.  If I absolutely had to pick one.

It started them down a really bad path, yeah. The trade itself was awful, but, it also lead to the Toskala and Giguere trades. It was really just a mess.

Yeah, you can just imagine so many other moves not having to happen if that deal isn't made.

So who would be the 2015 player equivalent to Raycroft that we could trade Nylander for?

Clarkson?

:'(

Do you have to be so right?

 

[Deebo]

I never root for a loss in any given game, can't do it.  But in the larger context, I hope for a great measure of tank.

It's time to gut this sucker and let the entrails sink to the bottom of the pond.

I can't really, either, until last few games of the season when they're legitimately jockeying for a better draft position. Right now, it's more that I'm less enthusiastic about wins because I see them as being fruitless endeavours.

Losing as many of the next 16 games is important, we don't want management to think there is any chance of a playoff spot going into the trade deadline.

 

[pmrules]

I can't disagree with the assessment the article presents. Except for the Nolan trade. I will always maintain that it was the right trade at the time.

I could be wrong bit it think since the trade Nolan ended up playing more games than any of the pieces that were involved in that deal. I'll have to look that up though.

I'm going to back the Leetch trade too.  The Leafs would have been better getting Chris Pronger rather than another offensive defenseman but they gave up a 6th round draft prospect who was a non-NHLer, an 8th round draft prospect who was a non-NHLer, a 1st round pick (24th overall) and a 2nd round draft pick for what was supposed to be a year and a half of Leetch.  They got burned by a lockout that the Leafs never wanted.  That was still a very good team.  Borderline Cup contender, but a contender nonetheless.

I maintain if one trade was the absolute worst for the team long term, it was Rask for Raycroft.  If I absolutely had to pick one.

Ahh...love that trade. 

Hypothetical question...

Assume it was Pogge instead of Rask in that trade.

Is there anyone other than me who thinks there is an outside shot (i.e. not a guarantee) that it is Pogge with the Stanley Cup and the Vezina, and Rask outside the NHL?

Inference being that it was the Toronto team/system that ruined Pogge and the Boston team/system that helped to make Rask what he is today (Chara/Bergeron in their primes could make a lot of goalies).   

If I recall correctly that at the time of the trade the talent levels of Rask/Pogge were considered to be at a similar level (i don't know this to be true since i don't follow junior/euro hockey so I have to assume based on what i remember hearing at the time).

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I can't disagree with the assessment the article presents. Except for the Nolan trade. I will always maintain that it was the right trade at the time.

I could be wrong bit it think since the trade Nolan ended up playing more games than any of the pieces that were involved in that deal. I'll have to look that up though.

I'm going to back the Leetch trade too.  The Leafs would have been better getting Chris Pronger rather than another offensive defenseman but they gave up a 6th round draft prospect who was a non-NHLer, an 8th round draft prospect who was a non-NHLer, a 1st round pick (24th overall) and a 2nd round draft pick for what was supposed to be a year and a half of Leetch.  They got burned by a lockout that the Leafs never wanted.  That was still a very good team.  Borderline Cup contender, but a contender nonetheless.

I maintain if one trade was the absolute worst for the team long term, it was Rask for Raycroft.  If I absolutely had to pick one.

Ahh...love that trade. 

Hypothetical question...

Assume it was Pogge instead of Rask in that trade.

Is there anyone other than me who thinks there is an outside shot (i.e. not a guarantee) that it is Pogge with the Stanley Cup and the Vezina, and Rask outside the NHL?

Inference being that it was the Toronto team/system that ruined Pogge and the Boston team/system that helped to make Rask what he is today (Chara/Bergeron in their primes could make a lot of goalies).   

If I recall correctly that at the time of the trade the talent levels of Rask/Pogge were considered to be at a similar level (i don't know this to be true since i don't follow junior/euro hockey so I have to assume based on what i remember hearing at the time).

Short answer: nope.

Rask was a legitimate 1st round pick and considered the best goalie outside of the NHL for years until he broke into the league.

Pogge didn't really have much other than hype from being on the WJHC team.  There was really nowhere near the same excitement about him from scouts.

I'm sure Boston's style has helped Rask's overall numbers, but he'd be great regardless.

 

[bustaheims]

Hypothetical question...

Assume it was Pogge instead of Rask in that trade.

Is there anyone other than me who thinks there is an outside shot (i.e. not a guarantee) that it is Pogge with the Stanley Cup and the Vezina, and Rask outside the NHL?

Inference being that it was the Toronto team/system that ruined Pogge and the Boston team/system that helped to make Rask what he is today (Chara/Bergeron in their primes could make a lot of goalies).   

If I recall correctly that at the time of the trade the talent levels of Rask/Pogge were considered to be at a similar level (i don't know this to be true since i don't follow junior/euro hockey so I have to assume based on what i remember hearing at the time).

No. I think Pogge's stock was artificially inflated by his performance at the WJHC, and, while his junior numbers looked pretty good, he was playing behind a very stingy defensive team. I don't think any of the professionals ever considered Pogge to be on par with Rask. Maybe some of the talking heads said something to that effect, but, that's about it.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Even at the time of the trade, there were tons of people (myself included) that saw Pogge as nothing more than maybe a back-up in the NHL. Rask was generally considered a top 2 or 3 goalie prospect at the time.