Tank Nation UNITE!!!

[TML fan]

Buying out Grabovski was ffffoooooking nuts!  Both at the time and now!  The one thing you could not say about him was that he lacked "compete level" or "accountability"  I still can't believe we picked Bozak over him, essentially because Kessel was his roommate (In my mind).

I don't think buying him out was an mistake, using the resulting cap space to sign Clarkson was a huge mistake though.

I will agree on that point. No one could of known that Clarkson was going to be as bad!

I think everyone but Nonis knew, actually.

 

[freer]

Buying out Grabovski was ffffoooooking nuts!  Both at the time and now!  The one thing you could not say about him was that he lacked "compete level" or "accountability"  I still can't believe we picked Bozak over him, essentially because Kessel was his roommate (In my mind).

Really what has Grabovski done! Nothing! He has 14 pts so for this season compared to Bozaks 32 pts. Both players played the exact same amount of games last season and Bozak had 14 more pts. Bozak 4.2 mil, Grabovski 5.0 mil. Numbers say Bozak is better and cheaper.

Looking at numbers in that way and only that way would mean Bozak is as good as or better than Jeff Carter, Patrice Bergeron, Alex Galchenyuk, Ryan Nugent-Hopkins, Eric Staal, Matt Duchene, Nathan MacKinnon, to name a few.

I never stated that he was better then the players that you listed. I only stated that he was and is better then Grabovski. Patrice Bergeron is the best center in the league IMO.

 

[freer]

Buying out Grabovski was ffffoooooking nuts!  Both at the time and now!  The one thing you could not say about him was that he lacked "compete level" or "accountability"  I still can't believe we picked Bozak over him, essentially because Kessel was his roommate (In my mind).

I don't think buying him out was an mistake, using the resulting cap space to sign Clarkson was a huge mistake though.

I will agree on that point. No one could of known that Clarkson was going to be as bad!

I think everyone but Nonis knew, actually.

Really. Then why was he most sot after free agent of that year then?

 

[LuncheonMeat]

This thread has taken a dark, sad, and depressing turn.

The facts surrounding the Leafs have a way of doing that.

Funny, I've always looked at the 80s, and the Ballard years in general, and think things really aren't that bad right now.  But as this train wreck of a franchise continues to plumb the depths of futility, it's becoming a lot harder to convince myself that those years were so much worse than the current ones (just a different kind of bad).

The Leafs barely made the playoffs in 1980, finishing five games below .500. They would not post a winning record again until 1992?93, going a franchise-record 13 consecutive seasons without a winning record. The low point came in 1984?85, when the Leafs finished the season with the worst record in the league, 32 games below .500.

Not that I was old enough, but I'm pretty sure it was wayyyy easier to make the playoffs then.

For instance, in 85-86 Leafs finished 25-48-7 and made it to the 2nd round of the playoffs.

It was, but I'm not even talking playoffs, just about the way the Leafs make you want to scream and cry and pull your hair out.  There have been so many more bad years than good, for decades, that it just feels like this franchise is doomed, and its fans along with it.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Buying out Grabovski was ffffoooooking nuts!  Both at the time and now!  The one thing you could not say about him was that he lacked "compete level" or "accountability"  I still can't believe we picked Bozak over him, essentially because Kessel was his roommate (In my mind).

Really what has Grabovski done! Nothing! He has 14 pts so for this season compared to Bozaks 32 pts. Both players played the exact same amount of games last season and Bozak had 14 more pts. Bozak 4.2 mil, Grabovski 5.0 mil. Numbers say Bozak is better and cheaper.

Looking at numbers in that way and only that way would mean Bozak is as good as or better than Jeff Carter, Patrice Bergeron, Alex Galchenyuk, Ryan Nugent-Hopkins, Eric Staal, Matt Duchene, Nathan MacKinnon, to name a few.

I never stated that he was better then the players that you listed. I only stated that he was and is better then Grabovski. Patrice Bergeron is the best center in the league IMO.

I never stated you stated he was better than the players I listed.  If "the numbers say Bozak is better" and the only numbers you are using are total points to come to this conclusion, then I did the exact same thing to get an even bigger list of players who right now "the numbers" say Bozak is better than.

 

[Kin]

Patrice Bergeron is the best center in the league IMO.

I don't think Patrice Bergeron's mother thinks he's the best center in the league.

 

[brothert]

Yeah but Grabovski has one advantage that Bozak can never have: he's not Bozak.

I think this nails it for me.  Concussions have hurt Grabbo this season but he's been out there for 38 games (probably still injured for some of them).  And despite the poor point production, still manages to keep his +/- respectable and dishes out a few hits and generates a bit of energy for the rest of his team.  for the same 5 million you get a pretend (Stajanesque) first line center who gets his points parasitically through his linemates and is a -12 as the defensive conscience on his line.  This team might have been better with Kadri-Gabbo up the middle than where we are now.  Paying to get rid of him was ridiculous(by paying I mean buying him out and not using the buyout on gleason-liles)

 

[bustaheims]

Really what has Grabovski done! Nothing! He has 14 pts so for this season compared to Bozaks 32 pts. Both players played the exact same amount of games last season and Bozak had 14 more pts. Bozak 4.2 mil, Grabovski 5.0 mil. Numbers say Bozak is better and cheaper.

Swap their situations and I guarantee you that Grabovski has more points that Bozak would for the Islanders - and would probably put up more point than Bozak has for Leafs, considering very little of Bozak's production has come from Bozak's playmaking ability. On top of that, Grabovski would provide a much stronger defensive presence and a much more tenacious forecheck, because he's a much more well-rounded player than Bozak ever has been.

 

[bustaheims]

Part of me is wondering what the hell the past five years were if not a rebuild?

What part of the least 5 years really resembled a rebuild (other than finishing near the bottom of the standings in most of those seasons)? The trading away of picks and prospects? The poor use of young players? The lack of players drafted by the Leafs in the lineup? Letting players who could have been useful trade pieces walk away? Outside of being a bad team on the ice, this team has had none of the tell-tale signs of a rebuild.

 

[bustaheims]

Really. Then why was he most sot after free agent of that year then?

We can't say definitively that he was the more sought after UFA that summer. What we know is that the Leafs and the Oilers went hard after him and that it was a weak free agent class. We don't really know how serious any other teams were. And, really, with the track record of the management groups of the two teams involved . . .

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Really what has Grabovski done! Nothing! He has 14 pts so for this season compared to Bozaks 32 pts. Both players played the exact same amount of games last season and Bozak had 14 more pts. Bozak 4.2 mil, Grabovski 5.0 mil. Numbers say Bozak is better and cheaper.

Swap their situations and I guarantee you that Grabovski has more points that Bozak would for the Islanders - and would probably put up more point than Bozak has for Leafs, considering very little of Bozak's production has come from Bozak's playmaking ability. On top of that, Grabovski would provide a much stronger defensive presence and a much more tenacious forecheck, because he's a much more well-rounded player than Bozak ever has been.

Currently, the injury history would worry me, but that's only with the benefit of hindsight (not that Bozak's been healthy either, he hasn't played a full 82-game season since 2010-11).

 

[Kin]

Freshness of debate on Bozak aside, there's really nothing Grabo's done since he left that should have anyone thinking that being locked into him long term right now is something the Leafs really missed the boat on.

 

[bustaheims]

Freshness of debate on Bozak aside, there's really nothing Grabo's done since he left that should have anyone thinking that being locked into him long term right now is something the Leafs really missed the boat on.

He was having a pretty good year in Washington before injuries derailed him. He's struggled with the Islanders, but, I think part of that is due to usage, as well as injuries. He just hasn't been a good fit for them. They've also used him as a winger more than a centre.

 

[brothert]

Freshness of debate on Bozak aside, there's really nothing Grabo's done since he left that should have anyone thinking that being locked into him long term right now is something the Leafs really missed the boat on.

Other than the fact that we could have walked away from Bozak without having to buy him out and stuck with Grabbo.  I don't think in the scheme of things on the ice, we wouldn't still be in the same position we are now, but Grabbo i think would only have one year left on his contract and perhaps 1 less concussion (who knows on that front).  And we would have the Gleason cap space back.  Grabbo wasn't worthless, but IMO Bozak without Kessel probably is...

 

[Kin]

He was having a pretty good year in Washington before injuries derailed him. He's struggled with the Islanders, but, I think part of that is due to usage, as well as injuries. He just hasn't been a good fit for them. They've also used him as a winger more than a centre.

He's also a smallish player on the wrong side of 30 so the fact that he's struggled with injuries isn't exactly out of the blue. Personally, I don't think the Leafs are really missing out here outside of the false "Bozak or Grabo" narrative.

 

[Kin]

Other than the fact that we could have walked away from Bozak without having to buy him out and stuck with Grabbo.  I don't think in the scheme of things on the ice, we wouldn't still be in the same position we are now, but Grabbo i think would only have one year left on his contract and perhaps 1 less concussion (who knows on that front).  And we would have the Gleason cap space back.  Grabbo wasn't worthless, but IMO Bozak without Kessel probably is...

Next year is the only year of the Gleason buy-out where the Gleason Money added to Bozak's salary is more than what Grabo would have made so the idea that you'd save anything by choosing Grabo doesn't really add up.

Regardless, I didn't say anything about Bozak. They could have, and probably should have, kept neither player. That doesn't make Grabo's deal look good all of a sudden.

 

[Joe S.]

Buying out Grabovski was ffffoooooking nuts!  Both at the time and now!  The one thing you could not say about him was that he lacked "compete level" or "accountability"  I still can't believe we picked Bozak over him, essentially because Kessel was his roommate (In my mind).

I don't think buying him out was an mistake, using the resulting cap space to sign Clarkson was a huge mistake though.

I will agree on that point. No one could of known that Clarkson was going to be as bad!

I don't know about that - even before he was signed there was alot of posts here saying that signing him would be a huge mistake. That his numbers were an aberration, and that after scoring something like 14 goals in the first 30 games he went on to score 5 more the rest of the season...

I can't remember anyone saying it was a good idea to sign Clarkson.

 

[pmrules]

My opinion is that neither Bozak nor Grabbo (let alone both) should be a part of a contending teams top 2 lines.

They are both behind Kadri in my mind.  I'm still waiting for that second top 2 centre to arrive. Nylander???

 

[pmrules]

Fletcher 2.0 was just awful. The Finger contract, giving up a 3rd for Jamal Myers, Steen + Cola for Stempniak, multiple picks to move up two spots in draft. But nothing compares to JFJ and his goalie trades. Man, a 1st, 2nd and 4th for Toskala, a backup with average stats on a stacked SJ team? Wow.

Remember the rumors were that Fletcher got the Finger signing incorrect!  The theory being that he was actually thinking of another player from Colorado to sign.

Those were fun times too...

I didn't hear that rumour but I'm not really surprised lol. I think some of the early confusion was whether it was 3.5 per or total. Because nobody had ever heard of this guy.

Drown your tears in this.  Not that Sauer turned into anything of significance (Mainly due to concussion issues...so there's that).  But who is to say what would have happened had we signed the right "finger".

Did the Leafs Confuse Sauer with Finger or am I Missing Something Here?
http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=16043

Edit:  I apologize for the link to THAT website...it was the only one that i could search for quickly that explained the issues with the Finger signing.

 

[hockeyfan1]

Bring him back!  Our #1 draft pick!  ;D