caveman said:
I'm not really against the contract, especially since it's a lower cap-hit, but the fact that Liles has really underperformed since returning from the concussion and signing that contract is a little concerning.
The Brian Burke Thread
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I'm not really against the contract, especially since it's a lower cap-hit, but the fact that Liles has really underperformed since returning from the concussion and signing that contract is a little concerning.
Burke is responsible for some key mistakes:
He built the back end around Gustavsson and Reimer. He overalued them and the Leafs are paying for that mistake. This is the easiest one to fix. Gus will not be resigned and a veteran will come in to mentor Reimer.
He built the D around Phaneuf and made Phaneuf the captain. $6 million tied up in a D man who cannot play D. The trade was no big deal because the Leafs did not give up anything of any real value, but the problem exists now that they have a captain and a cornerstone of the D who is not worth anywhere close to what he is being paid.
He overvalued the team (thus underestimating the draft picks in 2010 and 2011) and traded for Kessel. The Leafs offense is built around a complimentary player who looks like a hobbit and looks like someone afraid of his own shadow. Often with teams it can be held true that as their best players go so goes the team. With that in mind you can forget about beating Boston anytime in the future while Kessel remains a Leaf. Burke now has to acknowledge this mistake and go get whatever he can for Phil and move on in another direction.
In order for the Leafs to take the next steps forward one of two things has to happen. Either Burke acknowledges his mistakes and deals with them or MLSE finds someone else to do it.
He built the back end around Gustavsson and Reimer. He overalued them and the Leafs are paying for that mistake. This is the easiest one to fix. Gus will not be resigned and a veteran will come in to mentor Reimer.
He built the D around Phaneuf and made Phaneuf the captain. $6 million tied up in a D man who cannot play D. The trade was no big deal because the Leafs did not give up anything of any real value, but the problem exists now that they have a captain and a cornerstone of the D who is not worth anywhere close to what he is being paid.
He overvalued the team (thus underestimating the draft picks in 2010 and 2011) and traded for Kessel. The Leafs offense is built around a complimentary player who looks like a hobbit and looks like someone afraid of his own shadow. Often with teams it can be held true that as their best players go so goes the team. With that in mind you can forget about beating Boston anytime in the future while Kessel remains a Leaf. Burke now has to acknowledge this mistake and go get whatever he can for Phil and move on in another direction.
In order for the Leafs to take the next steps forward one of two things has to happen. Either Burke acknowledges his mistakes and deals with them or MLSE finds someone else to do it.
Redleaf
Active member
Fanatic said:
While I agree with some of this, your premise relies on the fact that Burke is done building the nucleus of this team, and that this current collection of players is the end result.
Kessel, Phaneuf and Reimer are the 1st focal pieces of a slow are arduous process to fill this roster out. Hopefully guys like Suter, Nash and Nabakov (or similar) can be brought in to fill in those cornerstone roles you speak of. At which point guys like Kessel, Phaneuf & Reimer become excellent secondary pieces of this team.
RedLeaf said:
Suter, Nash and a really good goalie? you're setting yourself up for dissapointment. We won't get Suter or Nash let alone both.
But you're right... this isn't the end result. However, when is it ever the end result? Every team, in every season is constantly in flux. Even the Stanley Cup champions made a few changes to their team from when the won the Cup (Corvo, Zanon, etc).
Anyways, I think Kessel and Phaneuf are complimentary players sadly. Good ones no doubt. But not players who should lead your offence or anchor your defense. The problem is getting those franchise type players just doesn't happen often.
Kin
New member
RedLeaf said:
It doesn't rely on anything of the sort. What it relies on is the reality of the situation as is rather than making assumptions about the future. I don't think anyone would argue that Burke, magic lamp in hand, would love to add another terrific player. But in looking at that possibility you do have to deal with the reality that the Leafs aren't a team bursting with cap space or the prospects needed to make a huge deal for Rick Nash.
ZBBM
Active member
Fanatic said:
I give Burke a pass on the Gus/Reimer decision. It was a big gamble but one that I supported, and still do, because we are finding out whether they have the right stuff or not. That was the point of going with the young tandem. I think we have that verdict now. The question is, which of them do you want to get rid of -- or both?
The rest of your analysis is absolutely correct, less the cheap shot at Kessel's appearance. My contention that Phaneuf and Kessel are fatally flawed as cornerstones amounts to the same thing.
I would like to hear cw on this specific point -- IIRC I think he agreed (in passing) with me some time ago when I said something to the effect of this team will never be successful if it's built around those two. If this is correct, I wonder if he has any more detailed thoughts on that.
Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:
Believe it or not it was not intended as a simple cheap shot. Kessel strikes fear into no one. That would be okay if he was surrounded by people who do - but again, this is our guy and other than being a fancy skater and having a nose for scoring goals he has nothing else to offer.
I covet so many other players in the NHL and perhaps the Leafs need a Milan Lucic more than they need a Kessel right now. It is so ironic that the Bruins are the team that Burke promised to build us with the Leafs.
hockeyfan1
New member
After sacrificing much of his team's future in the Phil Kessel trade, the Leafs GM has done a nice job the past few years in restocking the cupboards in Toronto.
...the inspired play of youngsters such as Jake Gardiner, Matt Frattin and, more recently, Carter Ashton, bodes well for the future. Not to mention Nazem Kadri, Joe Colborne and Korbinian Holzer playing in the AHL with the Marlies, although there is no guarantee they will be consistent NHLers.
...few weeks ago...that if the Leafs had dependable goaltending this season they would be sitting comfortably in a playoff spot...
All good, until...
...it has become increasingly difficult to maintain that stance.
With each passing defeat, more and more doubt creeps into the scenario.
Now, more than ever, the heat is on Burke. When he arrived in Toronto in 2008, Burke promised to build a team that would physically dominate the opposition. Tuesday night's debacle proves his team is a million miles away from backing that up.
For a guy that is supposed to have a plan -- or a blueprint, as he calls it -- the Leafs are no closer to being a playoff team now than when he burst on the scene.
That was Burke's Leafs that got their butts kicked in Boston; not John Ferguson Jr.'s team...
It has been three and a half years of big promises and no results. Burke put his faith this year in two inexperienced goalies and handed James Reimer the starting job although the smiling stopper had only 37 games of NHL experience on his resume. And that was after signing Reimer to a three-year extension in the summer.
When it became painfully obvious his goaltending wasn't up to par Burke did not address that problem at the trade deadline. Not only that, when the deadline passed Burke stepped to the podium and whined about the pressure his players are under playing in Toronto...
He doesn't make a single move to offer his team immediate help and then he whines about fan and media pressure on his players? That is lame.
If the new owners of the Maple Leafs elect to keep Burke when they take over...
Poor coach Randy Carlyle once again tried to deflect blame for the defeat onto himself and the coaching staff.
"We can't really point to one thing that we did well and as a coaching staff we have to take responsibility because we didn't prepare the club properly to go out and compete," Carlyle said after the loss. "The reality of the situation is when you turn the puck over off the opening faceoff that just led to one mistake after another. It seemed like we were playing in our boots and the Bruins were playing in their skates."
...it isn't about coaching. It is about players wanting it.
...the only one who can really help the Maple Leafs is Burke.
Exactly.
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2012/03/20/brophy_leafs_crushed_burke_under_fire/
...the inspired play of youngsters such as Jake Gardiner, Matt Frattin and, more recently, Carter Ashton, bodes well for the future. Not to mention Nazem Kadri, Joe Colborne and Korbinian Holzer playing in the AHL with the Marlies, although there is no guarantee they will be consistent NHLers.
...few weeks ago...that if the Leafs had dependable goaltending this season they would be sitting comfortably in a playoff spot...
All good, until...
...it has become increasingly difficult to maintain that stance.
With each passing defeat, more and more doubt creeps into the scenario.
Now, more than ever, the heat is on Burke. When he arrived in Toronto in 2008, Burke promised to build a team that would physically dominate the opposition. Tuesday night's debacle proves his team is a million miles away from backing that up.
For a guy that is supposed to have a plan -- or a blueprint, as he calls it -- the Leafs are no closer to being a playoff team now than when he burst on the scene.
That was Burke's Leafs that got their butts kicked in Boston; not John Ferguson Jr.'s team...
It has been three and a half years of big promises and no results. Burke put his faith this year in two inexperienced goalies and handed James Reimer the starting job although the smiling stopper had only 37 games of NHL experience on his resume. And that was after signing Reimer to a three-year extension in the summer.
When it became painfully obvious his goaltending wasn't up to par Burke did not address that problem at the trade deadline. Not only that, when the deadline passed Burke stepped to the podium and whined about the pressure his players are under playing in Toronto...
He doesn't make a single move to offer his team immediate help and then he whines about fan and media pressure on his players? That is lame.
If the new owners of the Maple Leafs elect to keep Burke when they take over...
Poor coach Randy Carlyle once again tried to deflect blame for the defeat onto himself and the coaching staff.
"We can't really point to one thing that we did well and as a coaching staff we have to take responsibility because we didn't prepare the club properly to go out and compete," Carlyle said after the loss. "The reality of the situation is when you turn the puck over off the opening faceoff that just led to one mistake after another. It seemed like we were playing in our boots and the Bruins were playing in their skates."
...it isn't about coaching. It is about players wanting it.
...the only one who can really help the Maple Leafs is Burke.
Exactly.
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2012/03/20/brophy_leafs_crushed_burke_under_fire/
maplesyrup
New member
I'm willing to give him until Christmas... Possibly the full year if we're hovering around a playoff spot.
Guru Tugginmypuddah
Active member
Sarge said:
I'm just as jaded as the next Leaf fan, but I think we have to give him his full 5 years. That would be November of 2013, and really would have to extend into the 2013-2014 season.
maplesyrup
New member
Erndog said:
Trades. Trades. Trades. What else can he do? There's a chance a couple of the kids (kids he's previously acquired/drafted) make an impact too which I suppose could also help redeem his image.
Sarge said:
Trades sure but that's probably the hardest thing to successfully pull off (what with 2 teams working with a cap/budget, players, etc).
And yeah, sure, there's a chance a couple kids make an impact but what are we really expecting? If any single one of Frattin, Colborne, Kadri, Ashton hit 40 points I'm pretty sure we'd all be ecstastic. Even then how meaningful would that be? Certainly not a significant upgrade.
I guess we have to hope for bounce back years from Kulemin, Schenn (if he stays), stablize the goaltending, have a good contract year out of Connolly, Army and Lombo and have 1 or 2 kids surprise.
Sadly either way we look at it we're left hoping the stars align for us.
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