The Brian Burke Thread

[McPwnage]

I think Burke will get another season at the very least - that will give Carlyle time to get these guys playing more cohesively. It could be that the Leaf players are very slow learners.

I think they just suck and need replacing, slow learners have no place in the NHL

 

[jdh1]

Does anybody think there's any chance of Burke getting turfed once the sale of MLSE is completed?  I doubt it, but I wouldn't rule it out either.  Looking at it objectively, he probably deserves to get fired.

EDIT: I predict a Damien Cox column calling for Burke's head within 48 hrs.

I can't see Burke getting canned..He's been collecting young talent through trades and drafting and has sown a pretty good squad for the future...I believe he over estimated that he could rebuild the Leafs quick in a few short years...It doesn't always happen that way very often.He has to keep going and pick up a veteran goalie and a top forward or two yet.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I don't know that they do things like...sign multiple free agents to long term deals.

Pittsburgh signed Palffy and Gonchar in '05, they also signed a number of free agents in '03 though none so sexy.

Trading for Phaneuf was definitely not a 'traditional' rebuild move but I don't know that a ton more would have been accomplished dealing off the parts for picks and keeping White.

Trading for Phaneuf and Giguere smelled of a sheer panic move on Burke's part because he had no first round draft pick and the team was garbage.  He thought he could immediately improve the talent on the team.  Phaneuf has had brief moments when he's played well, but he's not an answer right now.

Wouldn't a panic move be trading really good assets for a short-term rental, or something like that?  I fail to see how getting rid of guys like Blake, Hagman, Stajan and White and getting Phaneuf, Aulie/Ashton, Giguere falls into the realm of panic move.  Sure, they haven't made monumental impacts on getting the team to the playoffs, but it was hardly a panic.  To me it was more of trying to shake up the core of the team from what it was, and got useful pieces back in doing so.

 

[Zee]

I don't know that they do things like...sign multiple free agents to long term deals.

Pittsburgh signed Palffy and Gonchar in '05, they also signed a number of free agents in '03 though none so sexy.

Trading for Phaneuf was definitely not a 'traditional' rebuild move but I don't know that a ton more would have been accomplished dealing off the parts for picks and keeping White.

Trading for Phaneuf and Giguere smelled of a sheer panic move on Burke's part because he had no first round draft pick and the team was garbage.  He thought he could immediately improve the talent on the team.  Phaneuf has had brief moments when he's played well, but he's not an answer right now.

Wouldn't a panic move be trading really good assets for a short-term rental, or something like that?  I fail to see how getting rid of guys like Blake, Hagman, Stajan and White and getting Phaneuf, Aulie/Ashton, Giguere falls into the realm of panic move.  Sure, they haven't made monumental impacts on getting the team to the playoffs, but it was hardly a panic.  To me it was more of trying to shake up the core of the team from what it was, and got useful pieces back in doing so.

Phaneuf and Giguere both had HUGE contracts and weren't playing up to the value of their contracts.  He acquired them in hopes they'd re-find their respective games and make him look like a genius.  When neither happened, the move looks very bad now.  Phaneuf at $6.5M for a few more seasons is just cap-crippling for the Leafs.  That kind of money should be spent on a real stud defenseman, something we don't have.

 

[Erndog]

Listening to the radio this morning they said 1 of Burkes last big cards he could play is to sign Parise... however, Pierre McGuire said that he doesn't think Parise would sign.  Neither do I.  Pierre seemed to think that Parise's list is VERY small... he said he considers Zach a friend and they talk often so I'm inclined to believe him.  Parise isn't coming.

Which got me thinking.  Everyone knows the Leafs are in desparate need of some elite talent.  However pretty much nothing is available in free agency.  There is of course the potential Rick Nash deal.

Not that I am advocating this, but anyone think Burke might offer our (likely) #4/5/6 pick in a deal for Nash (in addition to some other stuff I imagine)?  For argument sake, a #4/5 pick has extreme value.  And Columbus can turn to their franchise and say, "hey look, we have 2 of the top 5 picks, plus Jack Johnson, plus LA's first... our rebuild is well under way."

I imagine a #4/5 pick would probably be more enticing than almost any other prospect they could get in a trade.


What do you think?  Does Burke get desparate and offer up the pick for Nash?  Remember, 6 years of Nash for potentiall 7 years of young player (before they are a UFA).

 

[Zee]

Listening to the radio this morning they said 1 of Burkes last big cards he could play is to sign Parise... however, Pierre McGuire said that he doesn't think Parise would sign.  Neither do I.  Pierre seemed to think that Parise's list is VERY small... he said he considers Zach a friend and they talk often so I'm inclined to believe him.  Parise isn't coming.

Which got me thinking.  Everyone knows the Leafs are in desparate need of some elite talent.  However pretty much nothing is available in free agency.  There is of course the potential Rick Nash deal.

Not that I am advocating this, but anyone think Burke might offer our (likely) #4/5/6 pick in a deal for Nash (in addition to some other stuff I imagine)?  For argument sake, a #4/5 pick has extreme value.  And Columbus can turn to their franchise and say, "hey look, we have 2 of the top 5 picks, plus Jack Johnson, plus LA's first... our rebuild is well under way."

I imagine a #4/5 pick would probably be more enticing than almost any other prospect they could get in a trade.


What do you think?  Does Burke get desparate and offer up the pick for Nash?  Remember, 6 years of Nash for potentiall 7 years of young player (before they are a UFA).

I think a Nash deal is the last desperation card that Burke has to play and he'll play it.  Nash wants out, Toronto is a team on his list, so a deal can get done.  You're right a top 10 (likely top 5) pick combined with Columbus's own #1 overall goes a long way to selling to their fanbase that a rebuild is underway.  They'll actually probably be in better shape than the Leafs in a few years.

 

[maplesyrup]

I think in addition to that pick, Columbus would want a couple of players (and good ones.) i.e. Lupul + say, Gardiner. Perhaps the more likely scenario would make it Lupul + Schenn + the pick to balance out the salaries.

 

[Zee]

I think in addition to that pick, Columbus would want a couple of players (and good ones.) i.e. Lupul + say, Gardiner. Perhaps the more likely scenario would make it Lupul + Schenn + the pick to balance out the salaries.

It can be anyone but Kessel and Gardiner.  It'll be a different team to be sure.  I can see multiple trades going down.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Listening to the radio this morning they said 1 of Burkes last big cards he could play is to sign Parise... however, Pierre McGuire said that he doesn't think Parise would sign.  Neither do I.  Pierre seemed to think that Parise's list is VERY small... he said he considers Zach a friend and they talk often so I'm inclined to believe him.  Parise isn't coming.

Which got me thinking.  Everyone knows the Leafs are in desparate need of some elite talent.  However pretty much nothing is available in free agency.  There is of course the potential Rick Nash deal.

Not that I am advocating this, but anyone think Burke might offer our (likely) #4/5/6 pick in a deal for Nash (in addition to some other stuff I imagine)?  For argument sake, a #4/5 pick has extreme value.  And Columbus can turn to their franchise and say, "hey look, we have 2 of the top 5 picks, plus Jack Johnson, plus LA's first... our rebuild is well under way."

I imagine a #4/5 pick would probably be more enticing than almost any other prospect they could get in a trade.


What do you think?  Does Burke get desparate and offer up the pick for Nash?  Remember, 6 years of Nash for potentiall 7 years of young player (before they are a UFA).

I think a Nash deal is the last desperation card that Burke has to play and he'll play it.  Nash wants out, Toronto is a team on his list, so a deal can get done.  You're right a top 10 (likely top 5) pick combined with Columbus's own #1 overall goes a long way to selling to their fanbase that a rebuild is underway.  They'll actually probably be in better shape than the Leafs in a few years.

I should hope they start to look in better shape with 11 top-8 picks in the last 13 drafts.

 

[Zee]

Listening to the radio this morning they said 1 of Burkes last big cards he could play is to sign Parise... however, Pierre McGuire said that he doesn't think Parise would sign.  Neither do I.  Pierre seemed to think that Parise's list is VERY small... he said he considers Zach a friend and they talk often so I'm inclined to believe him.  Parise isn't coming.

Which got me thinking.  Everyone knows the Leafs are in desparate need of some elite talent.  However pretty much nothing is available in free agency.  There is of course the potential Rick Nash deal.

Not that I am advocating this, but anyone think Burke might offer our (likely) #4/5/6 pick in a deal for Nash (in addition to some other stuff I imagine)?  For argument sake, a #4/5 pick has extreme value.  And Columbus can turn to their franchise and say, "hey look, we have 2 of the top 5 picks, plus Jack Johnson, plus LA's first... our rebuild is well under way."

I imagine a #4/5 pick would probably be more enticing than almost any other prospect they could get in a trade.


What do you think?  Does Burke get desparate and offer up the pick for Nash?  Remember, 6 years of Nash for potentiall 7 years of young player (before they are a UFA).

I think a Nash deal is the last desperation card that Burke has to play and he'll play it.  Nash wants out, Toronto is a team on his list, so a deal can get done.  You're right a top 10 (likely top 5) pick combined with Columbus's own #1 overall goes a long way to selling to their fanbase that a rebuild is underway.  They'll actually probably be in better shape than the Leafs in a few years.

I should hope they start to look in better shape with 11 top-8 picks in the last 13 drafts.

It'll be a sad day when Columbus is suddenly a better team than the Leafs, even though the Leafs are supposedly building a strong foundation and Columbus through a few trades and picks leapfrogs us.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Listening to the radio this morning they said 1 of Burkes last big cards he could play is to sign Parise... however, Pierre McGuire said that he doesn't think Parise would sign.  Neither do I.  Pierre seemed to think that Parise's list is VERY small... he said he considers Zach a friend and they talk often so I'm inclined to believe him.  Parise isn't coming.

Which got me thinking.  Everyone knows the Leafs are in desparate need of some elite talent.  However pretty much nothing is available in free agency.  There is of course the potential Rick Nash deal.

Not that I am advocating this, but anyone think Burke might offer our (likely) #4/5/6 pick in a deal for Nash (in addition to some other stuff I imagine)?  For argument sake, a #4/5 pick has extreme value.  And Columbus can turn to their franchise and say, "hey look, we have 2 of the top 5 picks, plus Jack Johnson, plus LA's first... our rebuild is well under way."

I imagine a #4/5 pick would probably be more enticing than almost any other prospect they could get in a trade.


What do you think?  Does Burke get desparate and offer up the pick for Nash?  Remember, 6 years of Nash for potentiall 7 years of young player (before they are a UFA).

I think a Nash deal is the last desperation card that Burke has to play and he'll play it.  Nash wants out, Toronto is a team on his list, so a deal can get done.  You're right a top 10 (likely top 5) pick combined with Columbus's own #1 overall goes a long way to selling to their fanbase that a rebuild is underway.  They'll actually probably be in better shape than the Leafs in a few years.

I should hope they start to look in better shape with 11 top-8 picks in the last 13 drafts.

It'll be a sad day when Columbus is suddenly a better team than the Leafs, even though the Leafs are supposedly building a strong foundation and Columbus through a few trades and picks leapfrogs us.

Suddenly?

Did you not see what I just posted?  They have had top 8 picks practically EVERY season since before the lockout.  If they become better than the Leafs it's not going to be suddenly - it's going to be finally.

 

[caver]

It's a sad day already. 4 years into the rebuild and the Leafs can't even make the playoffs. Every time a big name comes in to run the Leafs they make the speech about winning the cup in 5 years. Dryden did it. Burke did it. And we get the same results. 4 years of rebuild and the Marlies look good in the AHL. I think the bar was set a little higher than that. I have been a Burke supporter since day one. Now, I am just disappointed. If Burke and the management "dream team" can't do the job then give someone else a shot. 

 

[Guru Tugginmypuddah]

So another "quick fix"? 

You get Nash, you still need to a goalie and a solid D-man, at the bare minimum to make this team even remotely competetive. 

If Toronto's pick is top 5, I wouldn't give Columbus any more than that.

 

[Mikhail Bloodnovsky]

If Burke trades out top 5 pick for Nash then I want him gone.

 

[Kin]

If they become better than the Leafs it's not going to be suddenly - it's going to be finally.

Well, no, it would be again. They have made the playoffs in that span.

 

[Zee]

Listening to the radio this morning they said 1 of Burkes last big cards he could play is to sign Parise... however, Pierre McGuire said that he doesn't think Parise would sign.  Neither do I.  Pierre seemed to think that Parise's list is VERY small... he said he considers Zach a friend and they talk often so I'm inclined to believe him.  Parise isn't coming.

Which got me thinking.  Everyone knows the Leafs are in desparate need of some elite talent.  However pretty much nothing is available in free agency.  There is of course the potential Rick Nash deal.

Not that I am advocating this, but anyone think Burke might offer our (likely) #4/5/6 pick in a deal for Nash (in addition to some other stuff I imagine)?  For argument sake, a #4/5 pick has extreme value.  And Columbus can turn to their franchise and say, "hey look, we have 2 of the top 5 picks, plus Jack Johnson, plus LA's first... our rebuild is well under way."

I imagine a #4/5 pick would probably be more enticing than almost any other prospect they could get in a trade.


What do you think?  Does Burke get desparate and offer up the pick for Nash?  Remember, 6 years of Nash for potentiall 7 years of young player (before they are a UFA).

I think a Nash deal is the last desperation card that Burke has to play and he'll play it.  Nash wants out, Toronto is a team on his list, so a deal can get done.  You're right a top 10 (likely top 5) pick combined with Columbus's own #1 overall goes a long way to selling to their fanbase that a rebuild is underway.  They'll actually probably be in better shape than the Leafs in a few years.

I should hope they start to look in better shape with 11 top-8 picks in the last 13 drafts.

It'll be a sad day when Columbus is suddenly a better team than the Leafs, even though the Leafs are supposedly building a strong foundation and Columbus through a few trades and picks leapfrogs us.

Suddenly?

Did you not see what I just posted?  They have had top 8 picks practically EVERY season since before the lockout.  If they become better than the Leafs it's not going to be suddenly - it's going to be finally.

Well, they were an expansion team in 2000, when the Leafs were a playoff team, yet if they *finally* get better than the Leafs, what does that say about the Leafs since then?

 

[maplesyrup]

I think in addition to that pick, Columbus would want a couple of players (and good ones.) i.e. Lupul + say, Gardiner. Perhaps the more likely scenario would make it Lupul + Schenn + the pick to balance out the salaries.

It can be anyone but Kessel and Gardiner.  It'll be a different team to be sure.  I can see multiple trades going down.

I'd consider moving Kessel + the pick for Nash. I dig Kessel and all but Nash is the better overall player and Kessel only has two years left on his deal. - Nash has six. It could also be a case of buying low on Nash and selling high on Kessel.  Maybe that deal needs to be massaged a bit but maybe there's something there.

 

[Zee]

I think in addition to that pick, Columbus would want a couple of players (and good ones.) i.e. Lupul + say, Gardiner. Perhaps the more likely scenario would make it Lupul + Schenn + the pick to balance out the salaries.

It can be anyone but Kessel and Gardiner.  It'll be a different team to be sure.  I can see multiple trades going down.

I'd consider moving Kessel + the pick for Nash. I dig Kessel and all but Nash is the better overall player and Kessel only has two years left on his deal. - Nash has six. It could also be a case of buying low on Nash and selling high on Kessel.  Maybe that deal needs to be massaged a bit but maybe there's something there.

Would be a terrible move to trade Kessel now.  He's 25 and just starting to become an overall better player, i.e. a point a game player.  I could see Kessel elevating his game even more if he had the big linemates to play with.  Put Kessel on a team like Pittsburgh, Vancouver and he's a 50 goal man.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

If they become better than the Leafs it's not going to be suddenly - it's going to be finally.

Well, no, it would be again. They have made the playoffs in that span.

Well, if we're talking about the actual span I referred to, then so have the Leafs.  But that's not really fair to Columbus their first bunch of years.  But post-lockout, after that many high draft picks, I'd expect their team to be better than a Leafs team that spun its wheels for years post-lockout and only had a couple high picks in that time.

 

[maplesyrup]

I think in addition to that pick, Columbus would want a couple of players (and good ones.) i.e. Lupul + say, Gardiner. Perhaps the more likely scenario would make it Lupul + Schenn + the pick to balance out the salaries.

It can be anyone but Kessel and Gardiner.  It'll be a different team to be sure.  I can see multiple trades going down.

I'd consider moving Kessel + the pick for Nash. I dig Kessel and all but Nash is the better overall player and Kessel only has two years left on his deal. - Nash has six. It could also be a case of buying low on Nash and selling high on Kessel.  Maybe that deal needs to be massaged a bit but maybe there's something there.

Would be a terrible move to trade Kessel now.  He's 25 and just starting to become an overall better player, i.e. a point a game player.  I could see Kessel elevating his game even more if he had the big linemates to play with.  Put Kessel on a team like Pittsburgh, Vancouver and he's a 50 goal man.

It would depend on what else could unfold on the draft floor or in the days leading up to it. We need to be much less soft and if that can be accomplished without moving Kessel (and I don't think that's impossible) then I agree. Absent that though, I still consider swapping Kessel for Nash.