The Official 2011/2012 Armchair GM thread

[Corn Flake]

If Carter wants out, (his agent is denying he does but who wouldn't want out of Columbus right now    ), I think the Leafs should try hard to get him.

I have never thought he was a franchise center because his passing ability isn't that hot (and therefore, he might not be the ideal center for Kessel). But he'd be a darn good center compared to what we've got on this club.

The issue naturally is what they'd have to give up. I'd have to give that some thought.

Agreed.  He would shore up the 1st line centre position for a good long while. Even if he's not an elite centre, he's an all-star level guy who can put 35-40 away each year. 

Voracek, 1st and a 3rd is what Columbus paid to get him.  His value is no higher now than it was then for sure. 

Still, I'd be knocking on the door and asking about Nash first, but zero complaints if Carter can be had.

 

[Erndog]

If Carter wants out, (his agent is denying he does but who wouldn't want out of Columbus right now    ), I think the Leafs should try hard to get him.

I have never thought he was a franchise center because his passing ability isn't that hot (and therefore, he might not be the ideal center for Kessel). But he'd be a darn good center compared to what we've got on this club.

The issue naturally is what they'd have to give up. I'd have to give that some thought.

Agreed.  He would shore up the 1st line centre position for a good long while. Even if he's not an elite centre, he's an all-star level guy who can put 35-40 away each year. 

Voracek, 1st and a 3rd is what Columbus paid to get him.  His value is no higher now than it was then for sure. 

Still, I'd be knocking on the door and asking about Nash first, but zero complaints if Carter can be had.

They generally score about the same actually but what I like about Carter over Nash is his versatility.  Wing/Center, probably a little better defensively than Nash also.  A year younger (though that doesn't really matter).  Not to mention his cap hit is about $2.6M less.  And the fact it would likely take less to acquire Carter than Nash so all that adds up to me as the more attractive player.

It's quite possible that Carter outscores even Kessel over the next 5 years. 

I've never been a big Kulemin guy.  He's a jack of all trades, master of none type and while I like him, and while I would rather keep him than deal him, we are going to have to offer an 'attractive' piece to Columbus.  They won't be taking back Lombardi for him.

I'd do my proposed deal in a sencond (or Kulemin + Kadri for Carter).  Again, Carter is everything we want Kulemin to be.  I have no doubt that in the next 6-7 seasons Carter will outscore Kulemin is probably 5-6 if not all of them.

 

[Erndog]

In his last 3 seasons, Jeff Carter has averaged 39 goals in 82 games.

That is not some run of the mill player.  He is only 26, signed to a good cap hit.  Big, strong center/winger.

We can sit around waiting for a team to take our junk for a bonafide star but I get the impression we won't be that lucky again.

 

[maplesyrup]

Here's a scary thought... Jeff Carter's cap number may come in LOWER than Grabovski's next year. 

 

[Andy007]

In his last 3 seasons, Jeff Carter has averaged 39 goals in 82 games.

That is not some run of the mill player.  He is only 26, signed to a good cap hit.  Big, strong center/winger.

We can sit around waiting for a team to take our junk for a bonafide star but I get the impression we won't be that lucky again.

You're starting to sell me on the deal   But I do think that people overestimate Carter's physicality due to his size. Kulemin is tougher and visits the dirty areas more frequently. Carter's cap hit and versatility are certainly intriguing.

I don't know; if Kulemin was at, say, 7G 7A right now, would we be as willing to give up him, Kadri and extra (pick, B prospect, Franson etc)?

 

[AvroArrow]

yes please, RE: Carter

 

[Heroic Shrimp]

I think it takes a series of deals to get Carter.  First, acquire Carlo Colaiacovo from St. Louis for Cody Franson.  Then trade MacArthur and Joey Crabb to Winnipeg for Nik Antropov.  The final trade:

To Toronto:  Jeff Carter
To Columbus:  Antropov, Colaiacovo and a 1st

Done.

 

[cw]

I think it takes a series of deals to get Carter.  First, acquire Carlo Colaiacovo from St. Louis for Cody Franson.  Then trade MacArthur and Joey Crabb to Winnipeg for Nik Antropov.  The final trade:

To Toronto:  Jeff Carter
To Columbus:  Antropov, Colaiacovo and a 1st

Done.

To Columbus:  Antropov, Colaiacovo and a 1st

Snatch Brendl from Pardubice HC for zero talent cost.

Grab Woywitka off waivers when Marc Staal returns

To Columbus:  Brendl, Woywitka and a 1st

A deal that would be a true debating dilemma for past Flyers fans .. 

 

[Tigger]

I really don't want to see Kulemin go anywhere. Not sure but I don't think the Leafs have enough cap space for that deal without another move of some sort ( probably not a huge deal, still )

I mean sure, Carter would be a great catch, goal scorer who wins faceoffs and can pk a little if needed and not a mighty mite either. Is there some other way other than sending Nik?

Not that this will happen or anything but would anyone trade Schenn for him? I'm far from sure I would but it's interesting to consider.

 

[maplesyrup]

I really don't want to see Kulemin go anywhere. Not sure but I don't think the Leafs have enough cap space for that deal without another move of some sort ( probably not a huge deal, still )

I mean sure, Carter would be a great catch, goal scorer who wins faceoffs and can pk a little if needed and not a mighty mite either. Is there some other way other than sending Nik?

Not that this will happen or anything but would anyone trade Schenn for him? I'm far from sure I would but it's interesting to consider.

Schenn might get you halfway (or so) there I feel  :-\

 

[Jalili]

Schenn for Carter? In a split second.

 

[bustaheims]

As much as I love Kulemin, I think I'd be willing to move him straight up or with a smaller piece for Carter - even with that ridiculously long contract of his - but, I definitely wouldn't add much else. Certainly not a prospect of as high a calibre as Kadri. Kulemin and Carrick or Mikus or someone like that, sure, but, I'm not convinced the difference between Carter and Kulemin is much more than that.

 

[Tigger]

Kind of like Kulemin Floyd?

I'm with you there too Busta, just looking at that contract, he'll be 36 when it's done, that's a tough chew though the cap hit is fairly reasonable if he continues to play as he has.

Burke wouldn't have to sign anyone to one of those deals either...

 

[maplesyrup]

Kind of like Kulemin Floyd?

Pretty much. In very broad strokes (and just my opinion) I'd say either guy gets you 50-60% of the way there. 

 

[Tigger]

Kind of like Kulemin Floyd?

Pretty much. In very broad strokes (and just my opinion) I'd say either guy gets you 50-60% of the way there.

I think Busta's got a point above, though the cap situation would have to be resolved somehow, still it's an intriguing situation if there's any truth to the notion that Carter wants out.

I have to think if that were the case Columbus could find a deal that would force the Leafs to up the ante some or fold.

 

[maplesyrup]

Kind of like Kulemin Floyd?

Pretty much. In very broad strokes (and just my opinion) I'd say either guy gets you 50-60% of the way there.

I think Busta's got a point above, though the cap situation would have to be resolved somehow, still it's an intriguing situation if there's any truth to the notion that Carter wants out.

Still, I have to think if that were the case Columbus could find a deal that would force the Leafs to up the ante some or fold.

I'd do Schenn + Kulemin for Carter + a nice kicker.

 

[bustaheims]

I'd do Schenn + Kulemin for Carter + a nice kicker.

Maybe if that kicker is Johansen, but, otherwise, that's more value than they gave up to acquire him in the first place, and, if he's asking out, that almost always means the team gets less. I stand by Kulemin and a mid-range prospect as my final offer.

 

[Andy007]

I think it's obvious that the solution to this dilemna is :

Schenn, Kulemin, Kadri, Grabovski, D'Amigo for Carter, Nash

 

[Corn Flake]

I'd do Schenn + Kulemin for Carter + a nice kicker.

Maybe if that kicker is Johansen, but, otherwise, that's more value than they gave up to acquire him in the first place, and, if he's asking out, that almost always means the team gets less. I stand by Kulemin and a mid-range prospect as my final offer.

True, but I was thinking about a possible Carter deal this afternoon and Howsen is going to have to get something pretty sexy in return for him to pull a trade for Carter, otherwise he's going to look like a complete maroon and the optics of sabotaging an already disaster of a season.

I do think his value shouldn't be any higher than it was at the time of that trade, but there would have to be some kind of name going back the other way, or at least a return that clearly makes sense as far as bolstering their team in another area.. like the Schenn/Kulemin idea, or a whole defense pairing... or something significant.

edit... this is all assuming he doesn't pull a Darryl Sutter type trade.  I mean that couldn't happen to us twice, could it?

 

[Corn Flake]

If Carter wants out, (his agent is denying he does but who wouldn't want out of Columbus right now    ), I think the Leafs should try hard to get him.

I have never thought he was a franchise center because his passing ability isn't that hot (and therefore, he might not be the ideal center for Kessel). But he'd be a darn good center compared to what we've got on this club.

The issue naturally is what they'd have to give up. I'd have to give that some thought.

Agreed.  He would shore up the 1st line centre position for a good long while. Even if he's not an elite centre, he's an all-star level guy who can put 35-40 away each year. 

Voracek, 1st and a 3rd is what Columbus paid to get him.  His value is no higher now than it was then for sure. 

Still, I'd be knocking on the door and asking about Nash first, but zero complaints if Carter can be had.

They generally score about the same actually but what I like about Carter over Nash is his versatility.  Wing/Center, probably a little better defensively than Nash also.  A year younger (though that doesn't really matter).  Not to mention his cap hit is about $2.6M less.  And the fact it would likely take less to acquire Carter than Nash so all that adds up to me as the more attractive player.

It's quite possible that Carter outscores even Kessel over the next 5 years. 

I've never been a big Kulemin guy.  He's a jack of all trades, master of none type and while I like him, and while I would rather keep him than deal him, we are going to have to offer an 'attractive' piece to Columbus.  They won't be taking back Lombardi for him.

I'd do my proposed deal in a sencond (or Kulemin + Kadri for Carter).  Again, Carter is everything we want Kulemin to be.  I have no doubt that in the next 6-7 seasons Carter will outscore Kulemin is probably 5-6 if not all of them.

I would do Kulemin + Kadri for Carter without any hesitation. Not because I think its a steal either. i think its the price you pay to get a legit 1st line guy and avoid the risk of Kadri not panning out and Kulemin maybe or maybe not progressing beyond last year, but that will take at least another year to find out.