The Unofficial Fire Ron Wilson/Ron Wilson is the Greatest Thread
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bustaheims
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Bates said:
Playing on the first line and being a number 1 centre are two very different things.
Busta Reims said:
Matt Stajan played #1 center for the Leafs too. Maybe Calgary will let us have him and his $3.5 mil/yr contract back !!! ;D (j/k)
In fairness to his point though, I was also thinking this morning that maybe Lombardi should get a look with Kessel and Lupul. Bozak has not been very impressive this season (with some consideration given for playing with his wrist injury). Lombardi has not been playing his preferred position at center much this season. Might be something to try as he's more proven in that spot even if he isn't a true #1 center.
My point was not that Lombardi is a number 1 center. I was just showing that even if you don't have the perceived best players at each position you can still be a very good team. Phoenix prob don't have a good player at any position relative to depth yet they make playoffs last couple years. The difference to me is coaching and getting players to buy into system that can make them successful.
Bates said:
I was thinking about Tippett the other day. I asked myself "what if he was coaching this group over the last couple of seasons? Would he have done better?" It's pure conjecture on my part and my feeling was that he very likely would have done better. I think he's a very good and smart coach who knows how to squeeze the most out of a roster.
I'm not saying Wilson is a bad coach because I honestly don't believe he is. But I do think a number of NHL coaches are better.
cw said:
That could be true, but shouldn't we be having this discussion based on who's available? And I think what's likely going to happen is either Cronin or the other guy they brought in will become head coach, or they'll call up Eakins. And just because Eakins has had some success down in the AHL doesn't mean he'll be a world beater with this roster. It's tough to tell.
I am with you CW and while I normally would not want to see someone fired I have a hard time believing that the Leafs we have had for last few years have been as bad as our record. Again I will use the Coyotes as an example, they change some players each year and don't always get better players for the position yet they keep plugging along. Also few that have left have not been as successful on new team such as Upshall, Bryz, and Lepisto although is is still a little early to be sure.
Bates said:
On paper, they're a pretty lousy looking club with a bunch of guys they're trying to recycle into being decent NHL players again.
39 yr old Ray Whitney leads the team in scoring with 14 pts. Their 'star' forward, 35 yr old Doan is on the down side of his career.
11 guys 30 yrs or older - not a fast team.
They have two NHL backups for goalies.
And their win% .615.
I look at that roster and say to myself "these guys have no business doing that".
But then you watch how Tippett has them playing together and it starts to make some sense.
I would not advocate for a coaching change unless Burke is convinced he has someone better that will make a real impact. Who is out there that would be better?
If a new coach comes in and the team continues to lose things will seem worse than they are now. Some people seem to want to try a coaching change like it is a goalie change "Hey let's give Scrivens a shot".... that may or may not work when it comes to trying out an AHL goalie but you cannot change coaches like you change goalies."hey let's give Eakins a shot". When Scrivens doesn't work out you have a small problem, when Ealins doesn't work out you have a disaster on your hands.
I am not crazy about Wilson, but I would need a better reason to change than just to change.
If a new coach comes in and the team continues to lose things will seem worse than they are now. Some people seem to want to try a coaching change like it is a goalie change "Hey let's give Scrivens a shot".... that may or may not work when it comes to trying out an AHL goalie but you cannot change coaches like you change goalies."hey let's give Eakins a shot". When Scrivens doesn't work out you have a small problem, when Ealins doesn't work out you have a disaster on your hands.
I am not crazy about Wilson, but I would need a better reason to change than just to change.
Kin
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Bates said:
Was Phoenix a really good team in those years or did they play a style that was able to work for them in the regular season but got exposed when the games really mattered?
I know there's a tendency to say that it doesn't matter but I think most Leafs fans would prefer to not make the playoffs and continue building than to get in the way Phoenix did and then get exposed as pretenders.
L K
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Bender said:
Wilson likes to get on the bad goaltending, but I'm sorry, that was not a well played game by the forwards. They did get saves in the 1st period and did nothing to return the favour for their goaltender. And while I certainlly fault Scrivens and Gustavsson for giving up bad goals last night, this team is going nowhere if you need your goaltender to make game-changing saves 4-5 times a period.
Kin
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Bates said:
I don't disagree necessarily. I just think that to be any kind of a success a team needs significantly better goaltending than what the Leafs have gotten this year from any of their goaltenders.
To be a really good team, unlike a mirage-y good team like Phoenix, I think it does start with good players and I think that starts in goal.
I would not be firing Wilson on his body of work this year but that of the last few seasons. I don't think the Leafs line-up night in and out has been as bad as we have finished in the standings. Wilson just does not seem to get the most out of the players that he has. Not many play at or above their expectations.
Saint Nik said:
You are going to open up a can of worms here but... why?
Burkes tried giving Wilson as many pieces to work with as realistically possible. They have the most depth they have had in recent years. He's tried fixing areas that need improvement (ex. New assistant coaches for the PK, Steckal for faceoffs, Dupuis/Lombardi for PK, etc).
I guess you can say that Burke over estimated our goaltending situation but we might not be having this discussion if Reimer was healthy.
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