The Unofficial Fire Ron Wilson/Ron Wilson is the Greatest Thread

[Zee]

Time to bump this thread.

Fire Wilson.  I'm 100% serious now.  21st PP, 30th PK, yes there are assistant coaches responsible for these things, but after 3 years of Wilson and the pathetic special teams, somebody has to take the major fall for this.  Don't tell me he has no say in these things.  The Leafs keep making the same boneheaded mistakes, a major shakeup needs to happen.

What better way for Burke to say he's not happy with this team's play.  Yes we're still 2nd in the conference by some miraculous early play, but it's not good enough.  These problems *will* sink the team if they're not corrected now.  If we stick with the status quo the Leafs will start to drop in the standings and the playoffs will be in jeopardy -- again.

 

[maplesyrup]

... and replace him with? Every time I get my Wilson hate on, I find myself asking that question.

 

[Zee]

... and replace him with? Every time I get my Wilson hate on, I find myself asking that question.

Eakins.

 

[Redleaf]

... and replace him with? Every time I get my Wilson hate on, I find myself asking that question.

I think Dallas Eakins would take a promotion.

 

[Zee]

... and replace him with? Every time I get my Wilson hate on, I find myself asking that question.

I think Dallas Eakins would take a promotion.

Marlies are #1 in AHL penalty killing, he must be doing something right.

 

[Bender]

Time to bump this thread.

Fire Wilson.  I'm 100% serious now.  21st PP, 30th PK, yes there are assistant coaches responsible for these things, but after 3 years of Wilson and the pathetic special teams, somebody has to take the major fall for this.  Don't tell me he has no say in these things.  The Leafs keep making the same boneheaded mistakes, a major shakeup needs to happen.

What better way for Burke to say he's not happy with this team's play.  Yes we're still 2nd in the conference by some miraculous early play, but it's not good enough.  These problems *will* sink the team if they're not corrected now.  If we stick with the status quo the Leafs will start to drop in the standings and the playoffs will be in jeopardy -- again.

OMG2GAEMELOOSINGSTREEK

Even the best teams have losing streaks. Just saying.

In other news: If your goaltenders are sieves it's clearly the coach's fault.

 

[Zee]

Time to bump this thread.

Fire Wilson.  I'm 100% serious now.  21st PP, 30th PK, yes there are assistant coaches responsible for these things, but after 3 years of Wilson and the pathetic special teams, somebody has to take the major fall for this.  Don't tell me he has no say in these things.  The Leafs keep making the same boneheaded mistakes, a major shakeup needs to happen.

What better way for Burke to say he's not happy with this team's play.  Yes we're still 2nd in the conference by some miraculous early play, but it's not good enough.  These problems *will* sink the team if they're not corrected now.  If we stick with the status quo the Leafs will start to drop in the standings and the playoffs will be in jeopardy -- again.

OMG2GAEMELOOSINGSTREEK

Even the best teams have losing streaks. Just saying.

In other news: If your goaltenders are sieves it's clearly the coach's fault.

We've been having this discussion for 3 years on now.  It's *never* the coaches fault that the team sucks at special teams for 3 straight seasons?  Lazy play?  No motivation?  At what point is it the coaches fault?

 

[Mikhail Bloodnovsky]

I am really worried this 2 game losing streak will lead to a classic 0-7-1 slide. They have been doing those under Wilson like clockwork.

 

[Zee]

I am really worried this 2 game losing streak will lead to a classic 0-7-1 slide. They have been doing those under Wilson like clockwork.

Exactly.  It's time to send a message. 

 

[Bender]

Time to bump this thread.

Fire Wilson.  I'm 100% serious now.  21st PP, 30th PK, yes there are assistant coaches responsible for these things, but after 3 years of Wilson and the pathetic special teams, somebody has to take the major fall for this.  Don't tell me he has no say in these things.  The Leafs keep making the same boneheaded mistakes, a major shakeup needs to happen.

What better way for Burke to say he's not happy with this team's play.  Yes we're still 2nd in the conference by some miraculous early play, but it's not good enough.  These problems *will* sink the team if they're not corrected now.  If we stick with the status quo the Leafs will start to drop in the standings and the playoffs will be in jeopardy -- again.

OMG2GAEMELOOSINGSTREEK

Even the best teams have losing streaks. Just saying.

In other news: If your goaltenders are sieves it's clearly the coach's fault.

We've been having this discussion for 3 years on now.  It's *never* the coaches fault that the team sucks at special teams for 3 straight seasons?  Lazy play?  No motivation?  At what point is it the coaches fault?

No, seriously. Answer me on how the goaltenders playing like garbage, letting in chances that have no right going in, is the coach's fault. To me its not surprising that when we had half decent goaltending in Reimer we were winning games.

I don't know how you hang the loss on RW the last two games.

 

[Zee]

Time to bump this thread.

Fire Wilson.  I'm 100% serious now.  21st PP, 30th PK, yes there are assistant coaches responsible for these things, but after 3 years of Wilson and the pathetic special teams, somebody has to take the major fall for this.  Don't tell me he has no say in these things.  The Leafs keep making the same boneheaded mistakes, a major shakeup needs to happen.

What better way for Burke to say he's not happy with this team's play.  Yes we're still 2nd in the conference by some miraculous early play, but it's not good enough.  These problems *will* sink the team if they're not corrected now.  If we stick with the status quo the Leafs will start to drop in the standings and the playoffs will be in jeopardy -- again.

OMG2GAEMELOOSINGSTREEK

Even the best teams have losing streaks. Just saying.

In other news: If your goaltenders are sieves it's clearly the coach's fault.

We've been having this discussion for 3 years on now.  It's *never* the coaches fault that the team sucks at special teams for 3 straight seasons?  Lazy play?  No motivation?  At what point is it the coaches fault?

No, seriously. Answer me on how the goaltenders playing like garbage, letting in chances that have no right going in, is the coach's fault. To me its not surprising that when we had half decent goaltending in Reimer we were winning games.

I don't know how you hang the loss on RW the last two games.

I'm hanging the entire lackluster play on Wilson's head -- not just the last 2 games.  The goalies haven't helped for sure, but they weren't exactly top-notch when Reimer was there either -- remember the 5 goals given up in the 3rd period against Ottawa?  This team continues to make the same stupid lazy plays under Wilson.  The defense pinches at wrong times, forwards don't back-check.  What has he been doing in practice with these guys?

 

[Bender]

Time to bump this thread.

Fire Wilson.  I'm 100% serious now.  21st PP, 30th PK, yes there are assistant coaches responsible for these things, but after 3 years of Wilson and the pathetic special teams, somebody has to take the major fall for this.  Don't tell me he has no say in these things.  The Leafs keep making the same boneheaded mistakes, a major shakeup needs to happen.

What better way for Burke to say he's not happy with this team's play.  Yes we're still 2nd in the conference by some miraculous early play, but it's not good enough.  These problems *will* sink the team if they're not corrected now.  If we stick with the status quo the Leafs will start to drop in the standings and the playoffs will be in jeopardy -- again.

OMG2GAEMELOOSINGSTREEK

Even the best teams have losing streaks. Just saying.

In other news: If your goaltenders are sieves it's clearly the coach's fault.

We've been having this discussion for 3 years on now.  It's *never* the coaches fault that the team sucks at special teams for 3 straight seasons?  Lazy play?  No motivation?  At what point is it the coaches fault?

No, seriously. Answer me on how the goaltenders playing like garbage, letting in chances that have no right going in, is the coach's fault. To me its not surprising that when we had half decent goaltending in Reimer we were winning games.

I don't know how you hang the loss on RW the last two games.

I'm hanging the entire lackluster play on Wilson's head -- not just the last 2 games.  The goalies haven't helped for sure, but they weren't exactly top-notch when Reimer was there either -- remember the 5 goals given up in the 3rd period against Ottawa?  This team continues to make the same stupid lazy plays under Wilson.  The defense pinches at wrong times, forwards don't back-check.  What has he been doing in practice with these guys?

So every time the Leafs lose, if it's not the goalies it's RW. Gotcha.

I'm not defending him, I just feel that our players are making some bad decisions out on the ice irrespective of coaching. Do you think RW tells his players to get caught out of position? Or to allow breakaways? It seems to me that even the team isn't doing a good job of playing effectively as a unit insofar as they don't catch their own mistakes. You'd be crazy to think RW isn't trying to get them to tighten up defensively.

In terms of PK, for me it's the goaltenders, but we also don't have shut down PK specialists really outside of Steckel. IIRC Lombardi was pegged as a decent PKer but he's been on for the most goals against. Dupuis is decent at PKing but that's it. Apparently we have the highest shot blocking total in the league but RW isn't satisfied with that in the sense that we don't get into the shooting lanes. I'm sorry, but when you tell your players to get into the shooting lanes and they start panicking on the PK, giving players all sorts of time and space, instead of buckling down then to me it goes beyond coaching. It comes down to the players being accountable, and I think we've seen that with how pissed off Steckel was with the PK a few days ago.

PP: I'd say yeah, RW is probably at fault here. The trailer plays he's drawn up don't seem to be working effectively. Something needs to change here, but apparently this is why they brought in Cronin.

Again, I don't want to defend Wilson, but sometimes it's not the coach, its the players failing to play a simple, sound game. If we had half decent goaltending that didn't rival the atrociousness of Toskala and Raycroft I severely doubt we would even be talking about the PK.

 

[Zee]

I'm not defending him, I just feel that our players are making some bad decisions out on the ice irrespective of coaching. Do you think RW tells his players to get caught out of position? Or to allow breakaways? It seems to me that even the team isn't doing a good job of playing effectively as a unit insofar as they don't catch their own mistakes. You'd be crazy to think RW isn't trying to get them to tighten up defensively.

In terms of PK, for me it's the goaltenders, but we also don't have shut down PK specialists really outside of Steckel. IIRC Lombardi was pegged as a decent PKer but he's been on for the most goals against. Dupuis is decent at PKing but that's it. Apparently we have the highest shot blocking total in the league but RW isn't satisfied with that in the sense that we don't get into the shooting lanes. I'm sorry, but when you tell your players to get into the shooting lanes and they start panicking on the PK, giving players all sorts of time and space, instead of buckling down then to me it goes beyond coaching. It comes down to the players being accountable, and I think we've seen that with how pissed off Steckel was with the PK a few days ago.

PP: I'd say yeah, RW is probably at fault here. The trailer plays he's drawn up don't seem to be working effectively. Something needs to change here, but apparently this is why they brought in Cronin.

Again, I don't want to defend Wilson, but sometimes it's not the coach, its the players failing to play a simple, sound game. If we had half decent goaltending that didn't rival the atrociousness of Toskala and Raycroft I severely doubt we would even be talking about the PK.

The thing is, you can ALWAYS say it's not the coaches fault because in the end, it's the players making the mistakes on the ice. 

The coach doesn't tell them to give up breakaways.
The coach doesn't make the goalie blow a save.
The coach doesn't tell these guys to miss a backcheck.

So, in the end, it's ALWAYS the players fault if you want to get technical about it.  In that case Ron Wilson should have a lifetime contract.

My point is, we're seeing the *same* issues year after year with Wilson at the helm.  At what point DO you blame the coach and say we need a fresh face in there, with some new ideas and new systems to try out?  Wilson is out of ideas.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

... and replace him with? Every time I get my Wilson hate on, I find myself asking that question.

I think Dallas Eakins would take a promotion.

Marlies are #1 in AHL penalty killing, he must be doing something right.

Wilson was #1 before in the NHL, too.

Apparently doesn't mean much.

 

[Bender]

I'm not defending him, I just feel that our players are making some bad decisions out on the ice irrespective of coaching. Do you think RW tells his players to get caught out of position? Or to allow breakaways? It seems to me that even the team isn't doing a good job of playing effectively as a unit insofar as they don't catch their own mistakes. You'd be crazy to think RW isn't trying to get them to tighten up defensively.

In terms of PK, for me it's the goaltenders, but we also don't have shut down PK specialists really outside of Steckel. IIRC Lombardi was pegged as a decent PKer but he's been on for the most goals against. Dupuis is decent at PKing but that's it. Apparently we have the highest shot blocking total in the league but RW isn't satisfied with that in the sense that we don't get into the shooting lanes. I'm sorry, but when you tell your players to get into the shooting lanes and they start panicking on the PK, giving players all sorts of time and space, instead of buckling down then to me it goes beyond coaching. It comes down to the players being accountable, and I think we've seen that with how pissed off Steckel was with the PK a few days ago.

PP: I'd say yeah, RW is probably at fault here. The trailer plays he's drawn up don't seem to be working effectively. Something needs to change here, but apparently this is why they brought in Cronin.

Again, I don't want to defend Wilson, but sometimes it's not the coach, its the players failing to play a simple, sound game. If we had half decent goaltending that didn't rival the atrociousness of Toskala and Raycroft I severely doubt we would even be talking about the PK.

The thing is, you can ALWAYS say it's not the coaches fault because in the end, it's the players making the mistakes on the ice. 

The coach doesn't tell them to give up breakaways.
The coach doesn't make the goalie blow a save.
The coach doesn't tell these guys to miss a backcheck.

So, in the end, it's ALWAYS the players fault if you want to get technical about it.  In that case Ron Wilson should have a lifetime contract.

My point is, we're seeing the *same* issues year after year with Wilson at the helm.  At what point DO you blame the coach and say we need a fresh face in there, with some new ideas and new systems to try out?  Wilson is out of ideas.

You clearly missed the part about PPs. I don't think the plays he has drawn up are that effective.

But again, you're not going to win many games when your goaltending is .876 or whatever it is. Even with lapses the goaltending has to be better than that, and the best goaltenders fight a way to eke out those higher numbers even when playing on a defensively poor team.

Hey, maybe we should bring in a fresh coach with fresh ideas, like Paul Maurice... wait a second...

 

[Zee]

I'm not defending him, I just feel that our players are making some bad decisions out on the ice irrespective of coaching. Do you think RW tells his players to get caught out of position? Or to allow breakaways? It seems to me that even the team isn't doing a good job of playing effectively as a unit insofar as they don't catch their own mistakes. You'd be crazy to think RW isn't trying to get them to tighten up defensively.

In terms of PK, for me it's the goaltenders, but we also don't have shut down PK specialists really outside of Steckel. IIRC Lombardi was pegged as a decent PKer but he's been on for the most goals against. Dupuis is decent at PKing but that's it. Apparently we have the highest shot blocking total in the league but RW isn't satisfied with that in the sense that we don't get into the shooting lanes. I'm sorry, but when you tell your players to get into the shooting lanes and they start panicking on the PK, giving players all sorts of time and space, instead of buckling down then to me it goes beyond coaching. It comes down to the players being accountable, and I think we've seen that with how pissed off Steckel was with the PK a few days ago.

PP: I'd say yeah, RW is probably at fault here. The trailer plays he's drawn up don't seem to be working effectively. Something needs to change here, but apparently this is why they brought in Cronin.

Again, I don't want to defend Wilson, but sometimes it's not the coach, its the players failing to play a simple, sound game. If we had half decent goaltending that didn't rival the atrociousness of Toskala and Raycroft I severely doubt we would even be talking about the PK.

The thing is, you can ALWAYS say it's not the coaches fault because in the end, it's the players making the mistakes on the ice. 

The coach doesn't tell them to give up breakaways.
The coach doesn't make the goalie blow a save.
The coach doesn't tell these guys to miss a backcheck.

So, in the end, it's ALWAYS the players fault if you want to get technical about it.  In that case Ron Wilson should have a lifetime contract.

My point is, we're seeing the *same* issues year after year with Wilson at the helm.  At what point DO you blame the coach and say we need a fresh face in there, with some new ideas and new systems to try out?  Wilson is out of ideas.

You clearly missed the part about PPs. I don't think the plays he has drawn up are that effective.

But again, you're not going to win many games when your goaltending is .876 or whatever it is. Even with lapses the goaltending has to be better than that, and the best goaltenders fight a way to eke out those higher numbers even when playing on a defensively poor team.

Hey, maybe we should bring in a fresh coach with fresh ideas, like Paul Maurice... wait a second...

So there you have it.  Ron Wilson is blameless.  Thanks.

 

[Stebro]

I completely agree with Zee, I mean we could point our fingers at the players as much as we want, but if we don't see improvements I will blame the coach. Because it's not realistic to continue to make the same mistakes over and over again. I don't think that the players are that stupid.

 

[Zee]

Will it take a certain amount of losses in a row before some Wilson defenders finally think it's time for a change?

What if the Leafs start to lose 5, 6, 7 in a row?  Is he still safe? 

 

[cw]

Will it take a certain amount of losses in a row before some Wilson defenders finally think it's time for a change?

What if the Leafs start to lose 5, 6, 7 in a row?  Is he still safe?

I'm not a Wilson 'defender'. I would have fired him last year. But I have given him credit a number of times when I thought it was due this season. All in all, I think he's really tried and hasn't delayed dealing with issues - he's been faster to react this year.

Some examples:
- he has sat the enforcers (which I had hoped for in previous seasons)
- he did try to construct a third line to help with scoring (which I had hoped for in previous seasons). That hasn't paid off yet but I think it will - particularly when Armstrong returns.
- he's been faster to bench guys who are not playing well in a game
- he has largely rewarded ice time on merit of play - more so than in prior years when the vets seemed to have more of an edge
- his analysis of why they've won or didn't win has been dead on most of the time
- he's reasonably experimented with various configurations on special teams both in terms of personnel and system/plays
- he's got the forwards going to the net more than in past recent seasons
- he's recognized the contributions his 4th line can make and made better use of them than in previous seasons

Much of the recent failures relate more to player execution than something systemic or a lack of motivation in my opinion.

In fairness, the guy has done a fairly decent job in my opinion. I'm not saying that to be argumentative. I'm trying to be objective.

But to answer your question, "What if the Leafs start to lose 5, 6, 7 in a row?  Is he still safe?"

No. If they lose that many, they'd be out of a playoff position. They would have burnt their good start. Their PK would still likely be 30th (again) and their GAA is 28th now. The roster has been turned over a couple of times since he got here. At some point, you've got to give someone else a shot. Losing 5-7 in a row would have Wilson pretty close to that point.

 

[Zee]

No. If they lose that many, they'd be out of a playoff position. They would have burnt their good start. Their PK would still likely be 30th (again) and their GAA is 28th now. The roster has been turned over a couple of times since he got here. At some point, you've got to give someone else a shot. Losing 5-7 in a row would have Wilson pretty close to that point.

I think we'll find out soon enough.  We'll be playing  a St. Louis team with a TA-DA new coach.  Love how other organizations are quick to make changes but Burke stands by his man through thick and thin.  Loss #3 in a row coming up...