The Unofficial Fire Ron Wilson/Ron Wilson is the Greatest Thread

[avatarx51]

The sooner management and fans realize that neither Gus or Reimer is a #1 goalie.  You really have to buld your team from the net out, the leafs are doing the opposite.

 

[bustaheims]

But ignoring that, given where they are, it's still a Hail Mary I would consider if they want to make the playoffs because it's hard to see them substantially changing in the near term. So I can understand why a bunch of fans are calling for his head. I won't shed a tear when Ron is shown the door.

I get that, and I'm not against firing Wilson, because, well, he almost certainly deserves it. However, I am against the notion that doing so is a way to save the season. Like you said, it's a Hail Mary type move. I also don't think that bringing in the next coach now serves much purpose. A good chunk of the roster might not be here next season and he'll really just have to re-teach all the same systems in September. It's not something that I see putting the team further ahead than hiring/promoting the same guy in June.

 

[the dingo ate my baby]

I'm at the point where I do not want to make the playoffs so I can be certain Wilson's gone next year.  If we eek in and get another year of Wilson, I don't think I could take it.  If they fire Wilson now, they either continue the downward spiral (good for draft), or show improvement (good for playoff chances, and showcasing players for of season trades).

 

[proteus2000]

Wow loads of posts about Wilson getting fired now...no chance it'll happen before the end of the season, it's too close. Burke will do it in the offseason and blame the media, say that Wilson is a fantastic coach but didn't get a fair shake.

 

[Kin]

You're very much distorting the intent of what he said.  Burke merely suggested he didn't see value in making bad long-term trades merely to give a mediocre team a short-term boost to scrape into the playoffs and get their asses handed to them in the first round.

I'm actually not. You're just confusing two separate things he said. This is the quote I'm referring to:

?I?m not interested in making the playoffs and getting our asses kicked in the first round,? the GM told a Toronto radio station last month, repeating a mantra heard countless other times. ?I?ve done that. It?s not much fun.

?I?m interested in getting in with a realistic, reasonable chance to win or bloody somebody?s nose and use that round or two rounds or whatever we can do as a building block for a championship team.?

As the article notes, this isn't a one time thing he said in the context of the trade deadline. This is something he says often.

But either way, he's still saying he doesn't see the value in those deals. But there is value in those deals. Making the playoffs, even if you don't have a great chance of winning, has value. That's why teams make those trades.

 

[Corn Flake]

Now in fairness, Reimer looked like he was on his way to a stellar season before the Gionta headshot which I think gets downplayed or ignored when you look at how it derailed his season.  Not many goalies can take 6 weeks off to recover from that and come back 100%.  He never did.

I didn't think Reimer looked that hot in preseason or during those early games. He let in some soft/stoppable goals more that were not characteristic of his '11 season. The team won in those early games but I thought they kind of won more in spite of Reimer being kind of mediocre.

He wasn't mind-blowing but he was bouncing back from the odd bad goal vs. today where he lets one in and its crushing him.

 

[cw]

But ignoring that, given where they are, it's still a Hail Mary I would consider if they want to make the playoffs because it's hard to see them substantially changing in the near term. So I can understand why a bunch of fans are calling for his head. I won't shed a tear when Ron is shown the door.

I get that, and I'm not against firing Wilson, because, well, he almost certainly deserves it. However, I am against the notion that doing so is a way to save the season. Like you said, it's a Hail Mary type move. I also don't think that bringing in the next coach now serves much purpose. A good chunk of the roster might not be here next season and he'll really just have to re-teach all the same systems in September. It's not something that I see putting the team further ahead than hiring/promoting the same guy in June.

I wouldn't necessarily bring in the coach for next season now. An interim coach is what I might try. The only thing they have to lose this season is missing the playoffs and they're seriously headed that way.

The problem Burke has with that is he just gave the guy an extension two months ago. So it's not going to happen.

But if the Leafs faced relegation to the AHL if they missed the playoffs - something serious, would you do nothing? I wouldn't. I'd try an interim coach and maybe call up Owuya because Gus and James are not cutting it. They have little to lose at this point and a Hail Mary is close to their only option to change the outcome.

 

[cw]

You're very much distorting the intent of what he said.  Burke merely suggested he didn't see value in making bad long-term trades merely to give a mediocre team a short-term boost to scrape into the playoffs and get their asses handed to them in the first round.

I'm actually not. You're just confusing two separate things he said. This is the quote I'm referring to:

?I?m not interested in making the playoffs and getting our asses kicked in the first round,? the GM told a Toronto radio station last month, repeating a mantra heard countless other times. ?I?ve done that. It?s not much fun.

?I?m interested in getting in with a realistic, reasonable chance to win or bloody somebody?s nose and use that round or two rounds or whatever we can do as a building block for a championship team.?

As the article notes, this isn't a one time thing he said in the context of the trade deadline. This is something he says often.

But either way, he's still saying he doesn't see the value in those deals. But there is value in those deals. Making the playoffs, even if you don't have a great chance of winning, has value. That's why teams make those trades.

link

GM Brian Burke recently conducted an extremely honest interview and made it clear the team is not satisfied just making the playoffs (via ibtimes.com): "I'm not paid to get in the playoffs. I want to win a championship here. Getting into the playoffs...we could have done that last year. We could have traded our young players and gotten in last year for a couple of 30-year-olds. We could have gotten in the year before, too, I believe, if we traded all the kids. I'm not interested in making the playoffs and getting our asses kicked in the first round...I've done that. It's not much fun.

The underlined part is from your quote. The bolded text before is some of the context for your quoted remarks.

 

[cw]

Now in fairness, Reimer looked like he was on his way to a stellar season before the Gionta headshot which I think gets downplayed or ignored when you look at how it derailed his season.  Not many goalies can take 6 weeks off to recover from that and come back 100%.  He never did.

I didn't think Reimer looked that hot in preseason or during those early games. He let in some soft/stoppable goals more that were not characteristic of his '11 season. The team won in those early games but I thought they kind of won more in spite of Reimer being kind of mediocre.

He wasn't mind-blowing but he was bouncing back from the odd bad goal vs. today where he lets one in and its crushing him.

Still, in preseason and at the start of the season, he didn't look like the Reimer we saw in January 2011. He wasn't as sharp or consistent.

 

[Stebro]

I say fire Wilson during the off-season. Then look at coaches that could suit our needs. Sometimes it's good to make a change just for the sake of changing. Is Wilson a horrible coach? No. But he doesn't seem to have a cure for much of the problems. So who would I suggest for the role? I don't know at the moment. Not even sure who's out there, and we have no idea who will be fired before the off-season.

 

[cw]

Toronto Star weights in with a poll:
If Ron Wilson is fired as head coach of the Toronto Maple Leafs, who whould the team hire to take his place?

The media smells blood in the water.

I think there will be plenty of good candidates.

 

[Redleaf]

Toronto Star weights in with a poll:
If Ron Wilson is fired as head coach of the Toronto Maple Leafs, who whould the team hire to take his place?

The media smells blood in the water.

I think there will be plenty of good candidates.

Wow. Smell blood is right. How fast did they put that together? I counted like 4 spelling errors.

 

[Heroic Shrimp]

You're very much distorting the intent of what he said.  Burke merely suggested he didn't see value in making bad long-term trades merely to give a mediocre team a short-term boost to scrape into the playoffs and get their asses handed to them in the first round.

I'm actually not. You're just confusing two separate things he said. This is the quote I'm referring to:

?I?m not interested in making the playoffs and getting our asses kicked in the first round,? the GM told a Toronto radio station last month, repeating a mantra heard countless other times. ?I?ve done that. It?s not much fun.

?I?m interested in getting in with a realistic, reasonable chance to win or bloody somebody?s nose and use that round or two rounds or whatever we can do as a building block for a championship team.?

As the article notes, this isn't a one time thing he said in the context of the trade deadline. This is something he says often.

But either way, he's still saying he doesn't see the value in those deals. But there is value in those deals. Making the playoffs, even if you don't have a great chance of winning, has value. That's why teams make those trades.

See cw's post.  There's value in those trades, it's just really poor value.  Do you seriously want Burke to make "Perreault for a 2nd rounder" kinds of deadline trades like JFJ made?

I have no doubt that Burke realizes that making the playoffs is better than not making it, even if the team gets swept.  However, I'm sure he also seriously weighs the short-term value of a likely quick exit vs. the long-term lost value of traded young assets, as his full quote indicates.  Everything comes at a cost, and sometimes the cost isn't worth it.

 

[Optimus Reimer]

The problems with the team were evident at the start of the season, despite getting off to a decent start and staying in the playoff picture until of late.  Too many turnovers and poor defensive coverage has plagued the team all season and it finally caught up to them.  For RW not to do anything to correct that warrants his firing, but as others indicated, do it during the off season. 

 

[Stebro]

I don't think that we'll go with Keenan if Wilson gets the boot. I think that Burkie would go with someone who's won the cup before, or someone within our organization. Probably the first.

 

[cw]

You're very much distorting the intent of what he said.  Burke merely suggested he didn't see value in making bad long-term trades merely to give a mediocre team a short-term boost to scrape into the playoffs and get their asses handed to them in the first round.

I'm actually not. You're just confusing two separate things he said. This is the quote I'm referring to:

?I?m not interested in making the playoffs and getting our asses kicked in the first round,? the GM told a Toronto radio station last month, repeating a mantra heard countless other times. ?I?ve done that. It?s not much fun.

?I?m interested in getting in with a realistic, reasonable chance to win or bloody somebody?s nose and use that round or two rounds or whatever we can do as a building block for a championship team.?

As the article notes, this isn't a one time thing he said in the context of the trade deadline. This is something he says often.

But either way, he's still saying he doesn't see the value in those deals. But there is value in those deals. Making the playoffs, even if you don't have a great chance of winning, has value. That's why teams make those trades.

See cw's post.  There's value in those trades, it's just really poor value.  Do you seriously want Burke to make "Perreault for a 2nd rounder" kinds of deadline trades like JFJ made?

I have no doubt that Burke realizes that making the playoffs is better than not making it, even if the team gets swept.  However, I'm sure he also seriously weighs the short-term value of a likely quick exit vs. the long-term lost value of traded young assets, as his full quote indicates.  Everything comes at a cost, and sometimes the cost isn't worth it.

In this interview, around the 10 minute mark
http://www.fan590.com/ondemand/media.jsp?content=20120228_173137_8324
Burke goes through his reasoning

EDIT: here's the relevant quote from that interview:
"From our perspective, again, the math doesn't work at the trade deadline. I've said this before. I don't want to sound like a parrott stuck in a cage in a pet store saying the same thing over and over. But, we make more mistakes as a group on deadline day than we do the whole rest of the year. And there's 20 teams added yesterday or 22 or 23 and I'm pretty sure there's only going to be one parade. And for the rest of those teams, they've given up a 2nd round pick for a rental player which is what it used to cost. Now it's a 2nd & a 3rd or a 2nd and a prospect. That's a 10 year asset if you draft a guy who can play. That's a 10 year asset. And to try desperately to get into the 8 hole and trade a 10 year asset? I have a much longer view than that."

 

[the dingo ate my baby]

The Star poll has Eakins way out in front.  Hopefully he ends up getting his chance.

 

[Corn Flake]

The Star poll has Eakins way out in front.  Hopefully he ends up getting his chance.

Really like Eakins as a development coach but I think its a mistake to bring him in as the head coach, at least right now.  I think the Leafs should pay him NHL money to stay as the AHL coach for as long as he will stay, but they need more of a hellraiser to run this team and less of a player's coach type, which is what they have now.

Also: Eakins looks like he slept in his suits.

 

[the dingo ate my baby]

The Star poll has Eakins way out in front.  Hopefully he ends up getting his chance.

Really like Eakins as a development coach but I think its a mistake to bring him in as the head coach, at least right now.  I think the Leafs should pay him NHL money to stay as the AHL coach for as long as he will stay, but they need more of a hellraiser to run this team and less of a player's coach type, which is what they have now.

Also: Eakins looks like he slept in his suits.

Are you calling prickly old Ron Wilson a players coach??

 

[Redleaf]

The Star poll has Eakins way out in front.  Hopefully he ends up getting his chance.

Really like Eakins as a development coach but I think its a mistake to bring him in as the head coach, at least right now.  I think the Leafs should pay him NHL money to stay as the AHL coach for as long as he will stay, but they need more of a hellraiser to run this team and less of a player's coach type, which is what they have now.

Also: Eakins looks like he slept in his suits.

Are you calling prickly old Ron Wilson a players coach??

He supposedly came in as one. Remains to be seen how that reputation is perceived when he finally departs.