Trade Deadline

[AvroArrow]

Stocked with NHL'ers like Kasperi Kapanen.

If you draft someone in the #20-#30 range you are extremely fortunate if they come into the NHL with the skillset that Kapanen has.

If a team values that more than Kapanen, you absolutely tear their hand off.

For every first rounder like Kapanen there are lots like Biggs, Percy and Gauthier.

A bird in hand is worth two in the bush.

Hockey fans tend to fetishize the first round pick, it is very valuable, but ultimately it's just a lotto ticket when compared to a youngster like Kapanen.

Kapanen is part of a group of wingers that we barely have space for.  Starting next year, Johnsson joins that group, possibly Grundstrom as well.

Where do you plan to put these guys? And what do you plan to do when all their contracts are up within a year or two of each other?  It smells like a Chicago situation to me where we'll have to jettison some of these guys at some time. If Kapanen helps us get a #1 dman now, I take that shot.

 

[Bullfrog]

Think of it this way: if we're going to be a great team that places high in the standings and goes deep in the playoffs for a long time, we're going to need as many first round picks as we can get to try to keep the pipeline stocked.

This, incidentally, is why they should be trading their expiring contracts. By adding extra picks you can then trade picks and still have some.

I'm on board with this 100%. The prospect pool isn't as deep as it could be.

 

[Kin]

Think of it this way: if we're going to be a great team that places high in the standings and goes deep in the playoffs for a long time, we're going to need as many first round picks as we can get to try to keep the pipeline stocked.

This, incidentally, is why they should be trading their expiring contracts. By adding extra picks you can then trade picks and still have some.

I'm on board with this 100%. The prospect pool isn't as deep as it could be.

Basically the only argument against it at this point is "but what about a long playoff run" in a year where, let's be honest, they're almost certainly going to be an underdog in their first round series.

 

[Guru Tugginmypuddah]

Think of it this way: if we're going to be a great team that places high in the standings and goes deep in the playoffs for a long time, we're going to need as many first round picks as we can get to try to keep the pipeline stocked.

This, incidentally, is why they should be trading their expiring contracts. By adding extra picks you can then trade picks and still have some.

I'm on board with this 100%. The prospect pool isn't as deep as it could be.

How quickly we forget this how the Leafs were terribad for so long.  Trading draft picks and young players/prospects.  Next thing you know, you have a team of overpriced aging veterans, no picks, no prospects and a terrible team.

Signing overpriced UFA's seems to be way less catastrophic than emptying out your cupboard.  Signing Marleau was unnecessary, but not ultimately a disaster. 

 

[Kin]

How quickly we forget this how the Leafs were terribad for so long.  Trading draft picks and young players/prospects.  Next thing you know, you have a team of overpriced aging veterans, no picks, no prospects and a terrible team.

I'm not sure what period of time this is referring to but the Leafs problems had way more to do with making bad picks than it did not having picks. The Leafs in the 2000s made about as many draft picks as anyone else.

 

[Guru Tugginmypuddah]

How quickly we forget this how the Leafs were terribad for so long.  Trading draft picks and young players/prospects.  Next thing you know, you have a team of overpriced aging veterans, no picks, no prospects and a terrible team.

I'm not sure what period of time this is referring to but the Leafs problems had way more to do with making bad picks than it did not having picks. The Leafs in the 2000s made about as many draft picks as anyone else.

While difficult to say who the Leafs would have picked with the picks they traded away, just by looking at prospects they traded away like Rask, Steen, Stralman and looking at the picks they traded way like Seguin, Hamilton, Josi etc.

 

[herman]

Y'all should see what the Leafs raked in at the 2003 (the deepest draft ever, until probably 2015), 2004, and 2005 drafts. 1999 and 2000 were also pretty wonderful.

 

[Kin]

While difficult to say who the Leafs would have picked with the picks they traded away, just by looking at prospects they traded away like Rask, Steen, Stralman and looking at the picks they traded way like Seguin, Hamilton, Josi etc.

Ok. But it's probably more relevant that they traded multiple picks to draft Luke Schenn than just that they traded multiple picks.

 

[Highlander]

While difficult to say who the Leafs would have picked with the picks they traded away, just by looking at prospects they traded away like Rask, Steen, Stralman and looking at the picks they traded way like Seguin, Hamilton, Josi etc.

Ok. But it's probably more relevant that they traded multiple picks to draft Luke Schenn than just that they traded multiple picks.

Luc has begotten us JVR who will spawn great things. Luc is a fountain from which all life flows

 

[Bender]

Well, they're going to have to give to get.  They're not getting anything valuable for Brooks and Bracco.

RE: Johnsson. He's 5th in league scoring. So we're going to give away an AHL asset that will be ready and cost effective literally next year so we can get a rental? I really hope not. Does anyone think we can get over the hump by adding, say, Rick Nash? I don't. We have to replace Komarov, Bozak & JVR next year and pay the kids. Johnsson is a piece in all of that.

 

[Chris]

If the price to land a top pairing/legit #1 defenseman (and not just a rental) includes Kapanen, then you have to seriously consider it. But if you can get away with trading our first rounder this year and keeping Kapanen, I think you have to do that. It probably means you think the team is capable of competing for the Cup in the next 1-3 years, and Kapanen will be more valuable to the team during that period than the draft pick will be. What if Nylander or Marner goes down with a long term injury...Kapanen could possibly step into one of those spots right away. I'm not sure anyone else in the system, including Johnsson, has the skillset Kapanen possesses.

 

[Kin]

https://twitter.com/PierreVLeBrun/status/966702284255084545

Yay?

 

[CarltonTheBear]

RE: Johnsson. He's 5th in league scoring. So we're going to give away an AHL asset that will be ready and cost effective literally next year so we can get a rental? I really hope not. Does anyone think we can get over the hump by adding, say, Rick Nash? I don't. We have to replace Komarov, Bozak & JVR next year and pay the kids. Johnsson is a piece in all of that.

Nobody is talking about Rick Nash or a rental though. Ryan McDonagh is exactly what this team needs and still has a year left on his contract and there's really no reason to think he would definitely walk at the end of it.

 

[Bender]

RE: Johnsson. He's 5th in league scoring. So we're going to give away an AHL asset that will be ready and cost effective literally next year so we can get a rental? I really hope not. Does anyone think we can get over the hump by adding, say, Rick Nash? I don't. We have to replace Komarov, Bozak & JVR next year and pay the kids. Johnsson is a piece in all of that.

Nobody is talking about Rick Nash or a rental though. Ryan McDonagh is exactly what this team needs and still has a year left on his contract and there's really no reason to think he would definitely walk at the end of it.

It's a bit easier to swallow but I really don't know if McDonagh is the answer. How likely are we to win a cup with McDonagh on the roster in the next 2 years? You add McDonagh now and it limits your ability to plug holes elsewhere in the lineup, especially once Bozak & JVR leave for nothing.

 

[Bender]

If the price to land a top pairing/legit #1 defenseman (and not just a rental) includes Kapanen, then you have to seriously consider it. But if you can get away with trading our first rounder this year and keeping Kapanen, I think you have to do that. It probably means you think the team is capable of competing for the Cup in the next 1-3 years, and Kapanen will be more valuable to the team during that period than the draft pick will be. What if Nylander or Marner goes down with a long term injury...Kapanen could possibly step into one of those spots right away. I'm not sure anyone else in the system, including Johnsson, has the skillset Kapanen possesses.

It depends what the price is. What if they're asking for Kapanen, Johnsson, 1st+?

 

[Kin]

It's a bit easier to swallow but I really don't know if McDonagh is the answer. How likely are we to win a cup with McDonagh on the roster in the next 2 years? You add McDonagh now and it limits your ability to plug holes elsewhere in the lineup, especially once Bozak & JVR leave for nothing.

It's way, way easier to replace JVR and Bozak than it is to acquire a comparable defenseman.

 

[ZBBM]

RE: Johnsson. He's 5th in league scoring. So we're going to give away an AHL asset that will be ready and cost effective literally next year so we can get a rental? I really hope not. Does anyone think we can get over the hump by adding, say, Rick Nash? I don't. We have to replace Komarov, Bozak & JVR next year and pay the kids. Johnsson is a piece in all of that.

Nobody is talking about Rick Nash or a rental though. Ryan McDonagh is exactly what this team needs and still has a year left on his contract and there's really no reason to think he would definitely walk at the end of it.

It's a bit easier to swallow but I really don't know if McDonagh is the answer. How likely are we to win a cup with McDonagh on the roster in the next 2 years? You add McDonagh now and it limits your ability to plug holes elsewhere in the lineup, especially once Bozak & JVR leave for nothing.

I agree with Bender.  I think it was busta who said somewhere that minor tinkering (in terms of additions; I still would not be averse to dealing any of the UFAs at the deadline) if anything is what we should be doing at this point.  Not really a contender yet, though we could just possibly go deep this year if absolutely everything falls into place like it did for OTT last year.  Next year at this time is when some critical decisions will need to be made; if all goes well the window really opens then.

 

[bustaheims]

I agree with Bender.  I think it was busta who said somewhere that minor tinkering (in terms of additions; I still would not be averse to dealing any of the UFAs at the deadline) if anything is what we should be doing at this point.  Not really a contender yet, though we could just possibly go deep this year if absolutely everything falls into place like it did for OTT last year.  Next year at this time is when some critical decisions will need to be made; if all goes well the window really opens then.

McDonagh is a little different in my mind, though. I see that as a move that's more about next year than these playoffs.

 

[Kin]

I agree with Bender.  I think it was busta who said somewhere that minor tinkering (in terms of additions; I still would not be averse to dealing any of the UFAs at the deadline) if anything is what we should be doing at this point.  Not really a contender yet, though we could just possibly go deep this year if absolutely everything falls into place like it did for OTT last year.  Next year at this time is when some critical decisions will need to be made; if all goes well the window really opens then.

McDonagh is a good enough player that you can't really bank on there being a similar opportunity to acquire him when it's most convenient for the Leafs. That isn't to say they should abandon all prudence but we shouldn't treat it like they can just have a top pairing delivered in 30 minutes or he's free.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

It depends what the price is. What if they're asking for Kapanen, Johnsson, 1st+?

I think we can all agree that Kapanen and Johnsson aren't future superstar players, right? I mean I love them both but they project to be cost-effective (until they aren't anymore) middle-6 wingers who can ride shotgun on the top line with Matthews if need be. But they aren't elite players. We aren't talking about Marner or Nylander here. Whether it happens this season, or next season, or the season after that, those 2 are basically exactly the type of players that we're going to have to use to acquire an elite top pairing defenceman like McDonagh.