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Useless Thread

Arn said:
Brexit/Europe sees off yet another Conservative party Prime Minister...
Click to expand...

The sovereignty vote was just a political gambit right from the beginning. This is the whole problem with the sovereignty vote - it's so much easier to sell people on hopes and dreams than on status quo and reality. The Brits forced this on themselves and they don't want to be part of the EU but they want all the benefits - reality is biting them in the ass right now and either you stay in the EU and adhere to their rules but get the benefits or you leave the EU, have more say in your own affairs but get all the downside trade offs - there is no middle.

I'd have a second vote (since I thought the first vote was non-binding) now that people know the reality but it's like meh, people made their uninformed idiotic choice and we're going to go through with that idiotic choice come hell or high water. It's such a fiasco.
 
Bender said:
Arn said:
Brexit/Europe sees off yet another Conservative party Prime Minister...
Click to expand...

The sovereignty vote was just a political gambit right from the beginning. This is the whole problem with the sovereignty vote - it's so much easier to sell people on hopes and dreams than on status quo and reality. The Brits forced this on themselves and they don't want to be part of the EU but they want all the benefits - reality is biting them in the ass right now and either you stay in the EU and adhere to their rules but get the benefits or you leave the EU, have more say in your own affairs but get all the downside trade offs - there is no middle.

I'd have a second vote (since I thought the first vote was non-binding) now that people know the reality but it's like meh, people made their uninformed idiotic choice and we're going to go through with that idiotic choice come hell or high water. It's such a fiasco.
Click to expand...
It reminds me of Rick Mercer's description of Quebec's referendum debates in the 90's. Basically he compared it to a teenager moving out of their parents house but expecting to keep a key so they can come and raid the fridge or get anything else they want for free.
 
Arn said:
Brexit/Europe sees off yet another Conservative party Prime Minister...
Click to expand...

It's funny because I guess I'm one of the very few people who has a bit of sympathy for her. Sure, she seems like a really dreadful person who did a terrible job as PM(and whose policies/politics I think are awful) but I feel like there's this massive wash of delusion over the whole country like the issue is with decisions she made rather than a very real and deep split about the issue that transcends party politics.

I don't care if Winston Churchill or Benjamin Disraeli came back from the dead to lead the way, there is no political solution that would unite both the leave and soft-leave sides of the Tories nor the Remain and Left-Wing Brexiters in Labour. It feels like May was being faulted for somehow not finding the magic wand that would unite 4 entirely disparate views of the EU.

And now the likeliest outcome is Boris Johnson as PM and a no-deal Brexit. Seems pretty hard to believe that's where things would end up.
 
Crake said:
Bender said:
Arn said:
Brexit/Europe sees off yet another Conservative party Prime Minister...
Click to expand...

The sovereignty vote was just a political gambit right from the beginning. This is the whole problem with the sovereignty vote - it's so much easier to sell people on hopes and dreams than on status quo and reality. The Brits forced this on themselves and they don't want to be part of the EU but they want all the benefits - reality is biting them in the ass right now and either you stay in the EU and adhere to their rules but get the benefits or you leave the EU, have more say in your own affairs but get all the downside trade offs - there is no middle.

I'd have a second vote (since I thought the first vote was non-binding) now that people know the reality but it's like meh, people made their uninformed idiotic choice and we're going to go through with that idiotic choice come hell or high water. It's such a fiasco.
Click to expand...
It reminds me of Rick Mercer's description of Quebec's referendum debates in the 90's. Basically he compared it to a teenager moving out of their parents house but expecting to keep a key so they can come and raid the fridge or get anything else they want for free.
Click to expand...

Hey ma, I'm taking the car. Bye!
 
Nik the Trik said:
Arn said:
Brexit/Europe sees off yet another Conservative party Prime Minister...
Click to expand...

It's funny because I guess I'm one of the very few people who has a bit of sympathy for her. Sure, she seems like a really dreadful person who did a terrible job as PM(and whose policies/politics I think are awful) but I feel like there's this massive wash of delusion over the whole country like the issue is with decisions she made rather than a very real and deep split about the issue that transcends party politics.

I don't care if Winston Churchill or Benjamin Disraeli came back from the dead to lead the way, there is no political solution that would unite both the leave and soft-leave sides of the Tories nor the Remain and Left-Wing Brexiters in Labour. It feels like May was being faulted for somehow not finding the magic wand that would unite 4 entirely disparate views of the EU.

And now the likeliest outcome is Boris Johnson as PM and a no-deal Brexit. Seems pretty hard to believe that's where things would end up.
Click to expand...

Great, another idiot Targaryan leader.
 
Nik the Trik said:
Arn said:
Brexit/Europe sees off yet another Conservative party Prime Minister...
Click to expand...

It's funny because I guess I'm one of the very few people who has a bit of sympathy for her. Sure, she seems like a really dreadful person who did a terrible job as PM(and whose policies/politics I think are awful) but I feel like there's this massive wash of delusion over the whole country like the issue is with decisions she made rather than a very real and deep split about the issue that transcends party politics.

I don't care if Winston Churchill or Benjamin Disraeli came back from the dead to lead the way, there is no political solution that would unite both the leave and soft-leave sides of the Tories nor the Remain and Left-Wing Brexiters in Labour. It feels like May was being faulted for somehow not finding the magic wand that would unite 4 entirely disparate views of the EU.

And now the likeliest outcome is Boris Johnson as PM and a no-deal Brexit. Seems pretty hard to believe that's where things would end up.
Click to expand...

She definitely got the short end of the stick when it comes to Brexit, however I have a lack of sympathy for her in all honesty. She has an absolutely vile record as a politician. Her main legacy will be her time in the Home Office where she implemented the "hostile environment" policy which included attempting to prevent refugees making it to the UK and also removing the rights of settled people (mostly from the West Indies) and deporting them despite the fact many had been here for decades breaking up families.

https://www.theweek.co.uk/92944/who-are-the-windrush-generation-and-why-are-they-facing-deportation

Then there were the "Go home" vans where she literally agreed to have vans drive round telling immigrants to go home. "The pilot to use the AdVans referred to was authorised by former immigration minister Rt. Hon. Mark Harper MP. The former Home Secretary, Rt. Hon. Theresa May MP was informed of the intention to pilot this campaign."

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-go-home-vans-immigration-nick-timothy-prime-minister-a8312271.html

And what was one of the major issues that led to the Brexit vote ending up slightly in favour? The (vastly misguided) thought among a certain demographic of people that leaving the EU would stop immigration to the UK.

And that's without even going into various other things like policing cuts and rising crime (there's no correlation between the two, by the way)
 
Arn said:
She definitely got the short end of the stick when it comes to Brexit, however I have a lack of sympathy for her in all honesty. She has an absolutely vile record as a politician. Her main legacy will be her time in the Home Office where she implemented the "hostile environment" policy which included attempting to prevent refugees making it to the UK and also removing the rights of settled people (mostly from the West Indies) and deporting them despite the fact many had been here for decades breaking up families.

https://www.theweek.co.uk/92944/who-are-the-windrush-generation-and-why-are-they-facing-deportation

Then there were the "Go home" vans where she literally agreed to have vans drive round telling immigrants to go home. "The pilot to use the AdVans referred to was authorised by former immigration minister Rt. Hon. Mark Harper MP. The former Home Secretary, Rt. Hon. Theresa May MP was informed of the intention to pilot this campaign."

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-go-home-vans-immigration-nick-timothy-prime-minister-a8312271.html

And what was one of the major issues that led to the Brexit vote ending up slightly in favour? The (vastly misguided) thought among a certain demographic of people that leaving the EU would stop immigration to the UK.

And that's without even going into various other things like policing cuts and rising crime (there's no correlation between the two, by the way)
Click to expand...

Like I said, she certainly has contemptible politics in my view and, as you point out, as a senior Minister in Cameron's government she was responsible for implementing any number of terrible policies that she deserves all sorts of blame for.

"Sympathy" was probably the wrong word. She's gone and I'm certainly not going to shed any tears about it. But like I said, I think a lot of the criticism of her and the brexit negotiations is based on a fantasy of someone else being able to do a better job and the actual end result of her leaving may be someone who's just going to go full-on into a no-deal situation.
 
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