2012 CBA Negotiations Thread

[GhostofPotvin29]

Done for the night.  Meeting again tomorrow.  No one said much to the media.

Some stuff coming out...

Elliotte Friedman ‏@FriedgeHNIC

Daly: had a number of meetings today...good candid dialogue, some critical issues remain between two parties and we understand union... Will be getting back to us tomorrow about those issues.

James Mirtle ‏@mirtle

Basically the halfway point. RT @JSportsnet: League proposed increasing "make whole" provision to 300 Million Dollars.

James Mirtle ‏@mirtle

Big factor in getting deal done. RT @JSportsnet: League proposed that UFA and Arbitration rules stayed same as last CBA...27 and 4 Years Pro

James Mirtle ‏@mirtle

But still some work to be done. RT @JSportsnet: League would not budge on Contract Term or Variance... 5 Years... 5%.

 

[lc9]

So are they going to get this wrapped up or what?

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Chris Botta ‏@ChrisBottaNHL

NHL possibly playing on Christmas? Good to see we're past core economic issues and on to minor Clauses.

Chris Botta ‏@ChrisBottaNHL

Talks set up well for Bettman/Fehr return, NHL to still get big concessions, players to still make big $ and play to begin Dec. 26.

Don't know how much he knows different from others, but there's another voice (NHL writer for Sports Business Journal).

And apparently Jeremy Jacobs (the lovely owner of Boston) wanted to walk out of the negotiations yesterday afternoon (and Daly was on board), but some of the more moderate owners convinced the others to stay.

 

[Kin]

Some more details about what's on the table, as per TSN:

The league's offer Wednesday night offered a raise in money devoted to the 'make-whole' provision. The number in the latest offer jumped to $300 million, up from $211 million in the league's previous offer. The players had previously asked for $389 million, making the owners' latest offer an exact middle ground between the previous offer and the players' demands. However, of that proposed $300 million only $250 million would go towards a 'make-whole' provision with the remaining $50 million going towards pension funding that would not come out of the players' share.

and:

The league did not budge on its request for a five-year term limit on player contracts and held firm to a maximum year-to-year salary variance of five per cent.

The league's offer did, however, offer an exception on contract lengths for the re-signing of free agents. Teams would be allowed to re-sign their own free agents to contracts up to seven years in duration.

So I guess we'll see how important long term deals are.

 

[lc9]

Botta has been an insider for a long time.  I believe he was the writer who had messy break up with the islanders when he called out Garth Snow.

 

[lc9]

So I guess we'll see how important long term deals are.

Hopefully this is a pill the players can swallow.  As a fan, I love the idea of shorter contracts.

 

[Andy007]

The league did not budge on its request for a five-year term limit on player contracts and held firm to a maximum year-to-year salary variance of five per cent.

The league's offer did, however, offer an exception on contract lengths for the re-signing of free agents. Teams would be allowed to re-sign their own free agents to contracts up to seven years in duration.

So I guess we'll see how important long term deals are.

I just think it's funny that the league locked out the players to get a salary cap and set up the guidelines for operating in that system, and then locked out the players again to put restrictions on the same system that they are soley responsible for breaching/stretching beyond its limits. I guess next cba they will lock out the players again and try, what, to get a max yearly salary cap hit and rectify other rules that they instituted and found loopholes to get around.

 

[Kin]

Hopefully this is a pill the players can swallow.  As a fan, I love the idea of shorter contracts.

Not me, for what it's worth. As a Leafs fan the front-loaded long-term deals struck me as one of the only remaining advantages the Leafs, or any other deep pocketed club had in attracting FA's.

Honestly, the limiting of contract lengths just strikes me as a bone to throw to stupid GM's who don't know how to manage a club. In the right hands, a 7 or 8 or 10 year deal can be a real asset to a team.

 

[lc9]

Not me, for what it's worth. As a Leafs fan the front-loaded long-term deals struck me as one of the only remaining advantages the Leafs, or any other deep pocketed club had in attracting FA's.

Honestly, the limiting of contract lengths just strikes me as a bone to throw to stupid GM's who don't know how to manage a club. In the right hands, a 7 or 8 or 10 year deal can be a real asset to a team.

I guess over the years I have just gotten used to the NBA system.  I like the player movement and roster turnover created by the shorter deals.  Attracting FAs is about winning.  Win some games and players will come. 

 

[maplesyrup]

I heard the proposed idea with contracts is 5 years (7 if it's your own player.)

 

[Kin]

I guess over the years I have just gotten used to the NBA system.  I like the player movement and roster turnover created by the shorter deals.  Attracting FAs is about winning.  Win some games and players will come.

But keep in mind that the NBA system is inextricably linked to their soft cap and the various exceptions teams have. In the NBA a winning club can keep adding pieces once their core is assembled because of the mid-level and things like that. Teams in the NHL would have much less options and, because of that, I think you wouldn't see players migrating towards winning clubs but rather whoever had cap space.

 

[Andy007]

Hopefully this is a pill the players can swallow.  As a fan, I love the idea of shorter contracts.

Honestly, the limiting of contract lengths just strikes me as a bone to throw to stupid GM's who don't know how to manage a club.

And that is just one of the reasons why this lockout is so frustrating. The limiting of contract length is apparently non-negotiable as far as the league is concerned. Really? Your team has a problem with long-term contracts? Simple answer: DON'T SIGN THEM!

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie

I wouldn't try to predict how things go today but player mood last night was pretty dark. But it's emotional process. See what today brings.

Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie

PA doesn't like 5 yr term limits on contracts or 10 yr term of CBA or fact that Make Whole bump to $300M is tied to accepting 10 yr CBA.

 

[Bender]

Hopefully this is a pill the players can swallow.  As a fan, I love the idea of shorter contracts.

Honestly, the limiting of contract lengths just strikes me as a bone to throw to stupid GM's who don't know how to manage a club.

And that is just one of the reasons why this lockout is so frustrating. The limiting of contract length is apparently non-negotiable as far as the league is concerned. Really? Your team has a problem with long-term contracts? Simple answer: DON'T SIGN THEM!

Why do I think Burke probably helped pitch this idea?

 

[OldTimeHockey]

Hopefully this is a pill the players can swallow.  As a fan, I love the idea of shorter contracts.

Honestly, the limiting of contract lengths just strikes me as a bone to throw to stupid GM's who don't know how to manage a club.

And that is just one of the reasons why this lockout is so frustrating. The limiting of contract length is apparently non-negotiable as far as the league is concerned. Really? Your team has a problem with long-term contracts? Simple answer: DON'T SIGN THEM!

But Bettman is all about keeping competitive balance. He's doing his damnest to make sure every team can afford every player.

 

[Andy007]

Hopefully this is a pill the players can swallow.  As a fan, I love the idea of shorter contracts.

Honestly, the limiting of contract lengths just strikes me as a bone to throw to stupid GM's who don't know how to manage a club.

And that is just one of the reasons why this lockout is so frustrating. The limiting of contract length is apparently non-negotiable as far as the league is concerned. Really? Your team has a problem with long-term contracts? Simple answer: DON'T SIGN THEM!

But Bettman is all about keeping competitive balance. He's doing his damnest to make sure every team can afford every player.

Yes, well as long as the Leafs and Habs keep raking in the profits. And even then, most of the teams can't afford their players anyway.

 

[bustaheims]

It'll be pretty frustrating if the length of the CBA is a major part of what may scuttle the progress that seems to have been made the past couple days. A longer CBA has pros and cons for both sides, but, this is a league that desperately needs some stability going forward if it's going to continue to grow.

 

[Corn Flake]

Hopefully this is a pill the players can swallow.  As a fan, I love the idea of shorter contracts.

Honestly, the limiting of contract lengths just strikes me as a bone to throw to stupid GM's who don't know how to manage a club.

And that is just one of the reasons why this lockout is so frustrating. The limiting of contract length is apparently non-negotiable as far as the league is concerned. Really? Your team has a problem with long-term contracts? Simple answer: DON'T SIGN THEM!

Well I don't think it's completely non-negotiable since they have reportedly already offered this 5 year / 7 year change that wasn't there before.  I'm sure there is room.. I think their point is they want a limit on it of some kind and the lower the better.  They probably land on a 6 year / 8 year type of limit, which is pretty realistic in a lot of ways.  Also, no back diving silliness either.

All this "protecting teams from themselves" stuff aside, does it make any logical sense whatsoever to give an athlete a "career" contract, especially in a highly physical sport like hockey?  I think if you view it from a what makes sense for the sport, 12+ year deals make none.

 

[Corn Flake]

It'll be pretty frustrating if the length of the CBA is a major part of what may scuttle the progress that seems to have been made the past couple days. A longer CBA has pros and cons for both sides, but, this is a league that desperately needs some stability going forward if it's going to continue to grow.

I'm kind of surprised the owners would want that.  The way things have gone in the past, they will want to make changes sooner than later.  Do they really think they are going to get all their needs in this one, considering how they thought they got that last time? 

GMs will find loopholes in the new CBA, econonmics could change dramatically in the next 5-10 years (ie: Canadian Dollar crashes back down to 60 cents to the US buck) and who knows what else.

10 years of peace would be great.  I would be shocked - based on history - if we got it.

 

[Corn Flake]

Hopefully this is a pill the players can swallow.  As a fan, I love the idea of shorter contracts.

Honestly, the limiting of contract lengths just strikes me as a bone to throw to stupid GM's who don't know how to manage a club.

And that is just one of the reasons why this lockout is so frustrating. The limiting of contract length is apparently non-negotiable as far as the league is concerned. Really? Your team has a problem with long-term contracts? Simple answer: DON'T SIGN THEM!

But Bettman is all about keeping competitive balance. He's doing his damnest to make sure every team can afford every player.

Which in a lot of ways is what has driven up the prices in free agency, caused teams to overpay or give kkkkkrazy long deals to their RFAs to they don't walk at 27, which has led to many a mediocre player hitting the UFA market to be insanely overpaid.