2015 NHL Entry Draft

[Kin]

Just for comparison's sake, Tyler Johnson weighs 180-185.  So I would assume Marner, who's listed as being slightly taller, would have to put on at least 20 lbs and maybe more like 25 or 30 to be able to compete in the league.  Roughly speaking, of course.

Claude Giroux is listed at 172 and competes pretty well in the league. So it's really more like 10 pounds and for a professional nutrition program adding 10 pounds of muscle won't be anything resembling a tall task. He can probably do that before camp.

 

[Supernova]

Just curious, but why is it likely the Coyotes will pick Strome?

They have made it public knowledge that they need centres more than D men.

 

[L K]

Just for comparison's sake, Tyler Johnson weighs 180-185.  So I would assume Marner, who's listed as being slightly taller, would have to put on at least 20 lbs and maybe more like 25 or 30 to be able to compete in the league.  Roughly speaking, of course.

The flip side being Tyler Johnson was 21 when he started playing in the AHL so really, Marner has to put on 20 pounds over the next 4 years to match Johnson's weight.  That's a pretty modest goal to look for 5 pounds of muscle mass a year to get around Johnson's weight.  Given that he's really only going to be entering his prime years of weight training over the next year or two that's a pretty achievable goal. 

Guys in the NHL who finish in the top 60 in points <190 lbs:
Hudler, Sedin, Giroux, Sedin, Johnson, Karlsson, Kucherov, Kane

I really think size is somewhat of a misnomer in the game today.  You certainly would want to have big bodied guys who can skate and control the play but being 220 pounds doesn't give you a big advantage in the game anymore.  What you really need is core/lower body strength and that is something that Marner has already.  With development time that is only going to get better.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I really think size is somewhat of a misnomer in the game today.  You certainly would want to have big bodied guys who can skate and control the play but being 220 pounds doesn't give you a big advantage in the game anymore.  What you really need is core/lower body strength and that is something that Marner has already.  With development time that is only going to get better.

Yeah, that's the thing. If Marner was a 160 lbs weakling who couldn't lift 10 pound weights it would be a problem. But you can be strong physically at 160-170 lbs or whatever Marner ends up being. And it does seem as though he takes his physical fitness rather seriously.

 

[ZBBM]

Just for comparison's sake, Tyler Johnson weighs 180-185.  So I would assume Marner, who's listed as being slightly taller, would have to put on at least 20 lbs and maybe more like 25 or 30 to be able to compete in the league.  Roughly speaking, of course.

Claude Giroux is listed at 172 and competes pretty well in the league. So it's really more like 10 pounds and for a professional nutrition program adding 10 pounds of muscle won't be anything resembling a tall task. He can probably do that before camp.

Giroux is I expect a rare exception.  I get that smaller guys can succeed, but having MM top out in the 170s?  That's awfully lightweight in a league where the majority I would guess are 190s and up.

 

[Kin]

Giroux is I expect a rare exception.  I get that smaller guys can succeed, but having MM top out in the 170s?  That's awfully lightweight in a league where the majority I would guess are 190s and up.

Not all that much. Certainly not to the point where, as you said in your last post, he'd probably need to add "25 or 30" pounds. If he gets up to around 180(and, really, 175) then he'll be on the smaller side for successful players but not to the point that it'll be especially noteworthy.

You can say that players that size who are successful are uncommon, sure, but so are players that size being this highly ranked in the draft. Marner's already proven he's an uncommon player.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

You can say that players that size who are successful are uncommon, sure, but so are players that size being this highly ranked in the draft. Marner's already proven he's an uncommon player.

Yup. You could bring up as many undersized players who busted as you want, but none of them scored like Marner did in their draft year. None.

 

[L K]

You can say that players that size who are successful are uncommon, sure, but so are players that size being this highly ranked in the draft. Marner's already proven he's an uncommon player.

Yup. You could bring up as many undersized players who busted as you want, but none of them scored like Marner did in their draft year. None.

There really aren't a lot of players who have had seasons like Strome and Marner offensively during their draft year.  If you go back to the early 2000s I think you run into the Brian Kilrea "I make really good OHL players but poor NHL players" teams with Matt Foye and Corey Locke as guys who had great draft years and went on to do nothing professionally.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

There really aren't a lot of players who have had seasons like Strome and Marner offensively during their draft year.  If you go back to the early 2000s I think you run into the Brian Kilrea "I make really good OHL players but poor NHL players" teams with Matt Foye and Corey Locke as guys who had great draft years and went on to do nothing professionally.

Locke put up a 2.29 PPG in his draft year but he did that as an 18-year old. This list shows the all-time highest scoring seasons by OHL players under-18. Marner is ranked 12th, Strome 20th.

It's amazing those 2 were able to outscore guys like Stamkos/Hall/Seguin, and by quite a wide margin. Sure, linemates played a part but it can't tell the whole story.

 

[L K]

There really aren't a lot of players who have had seasons like Strome and Marner offensively during their draft year.  If you go back to the early 2000s I think you run into the Brian Kilrea "I make really good OHL players but poor NHL players" teams with Matt Foye and Corey Locke as guys who had great draft years and went on to do nothing professionally.

Locke put up a 2.29 PPG in his draft year but he did that as an 18-year old. This list shows the all-time highest scoring seasons by OHL players under-18. Marner is ranked 12th, Strome 20th.

It's amazing those 2 were able to outscore guys like Stamkos/Hall/Seguin, and by quite a wide margin. Sure, linemates played a part but it can't tell the whole story.

What is even more impressive is that Brian Wilks didn't put up those numbers to be at #3.  That was a year in the Metro Toronto Hockey League. 

 

[Frank E]

You can say that players that size who are successful are uncommon, sure, but so are players that size being this highly ranked in the draft. Marner's already proven he's an uncommon player.

Yup. You could bring up as many undersized players who busted as you want, but none of them scored like Marner did in their draft year. None.

Well, still, if we're talking about how that translates into a strong NHL career, only 8 guys out of 60 top point getters are "Marner sized", according to your earlier post.

 

[Jolly good show chaps]

When can teams start trading again? Assume the day after the Stanley Cup ends?

Guess if we manage to land any more first rounders, which hopefully we will, then that will give flexibility if we miss out on players we particularly like.

 

[LuncheonMeat]

Giroux is I expect a rare exception.  I get that smaller guys can succeed, but having MM top out in the 170s?  That's awfully lightweight in a league where the majority I would guess are 190s and up.

Not all that much. Certainly not to the point where, as you said in your last post, he'd probably need to add "25 or 30" pounds. If he gets up to around 180(and, really, 175) then he'll be on the smaller side for successful players but not to the point that it'll be especially noteworthy.

You can say that players that size who are successful are uncommon, sure, but so are players that size being this highly ranked in the draft. Marner's already proven he's an uncommon player.

I don't know if he's a great comparable, but their sizes are similar.  Nazem Kadri was listed at 6' 167 pounds in his draft year in 2009.  He's now listed at 6' 188 pounds.  We saw Kadri get knocked around a lot earlier in his development, but he's certainly looked stronger on his feet the past couple of seasons.

With the programs that NHL teams have in place, there's no reason Marner can't add enough strength and size to have a successful career.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

When can teams start trading again? Assume the day after the Stanley Cup ends?

Guess if we manage to land any more first rounders, which hopefully we will, then that will give flexibility if we miss out on players we particularly like.

They can trade right now if they want.  I'm pretty sure Tampa even made a minor trade recently.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Well, still, if we're talking about how that translates into a strong NHL career, only 8 guys out of 60 top point getters are "Marner sized", according to your earlier post.

We know that, but that's not the point. The point is how many "Marner sized" hockey players are there/have there been who are as good as Mitch Marner? Based on the information that we have at this point the answer is very, very few. So there's good reason to believe that his talents will make him an exception to the rule just like Giroux and Kane's talent made them the exception as well.

 

[Heroic Shrimp]

There really aren't a lot of players who have had seasons like Strome and Marner offensively during their draft year.  If you go back to the early 2000s I think you run into the Brian Kilrea "I make really good OHL players but poor NHL players" teams with Matt Foye and Corey Locke as guys who had great draft years and went on to do nothing professionally.

Locke put up a 2.29 PPG in his draft year but he did that as an 18-year old. This list shows the all-time highest scoring seasons by OHL players under-18. Marner is ranked 12th, Strome 20th.

It's amazing those 2 were able to outscore guys like Stamkos/Hall/Seguin, and by quite a wide margin. Sure, linemates played a part but it can't tell the whole story.

What is even more impressive is that Brian Wilks didn't put up those numbers to be at #3.  That was a year in the Metro Toronto Hockey League.

Whew, okay, so there's a reason why I'd never heard of that scoring phenom Brian Wilks...

 

[Highlander]

I heard somewhere he is now 6'.  At his age I was 6'2" and 170lb.  When I reached my 20th year I was at 210. He is going to grow into his frame.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I heard somewhere he is now 6'.  At his age I was 6'2" and 170lb.  When I reached my 20th year I was at 210. He is going to grow into his frame.

He was just measured the other day at 5'11".

 

[Highlander]

The skates will make him 6 2"  LOL

 

[L K]

There really aren't a lot of players who have had seasons like Strome and Marner offensively during their draft year.  If you go back to the early 2000s I think you run into the Brian Kilrea "I make really good OHL players but poor NHL players" teams with Matt Foye and Corey Locke as guys who had great draft years and went on to do nothing professionally.

Locke put up a 2.29 PPG in his draft year but he did that as an 18-year old. This list shows the all-time highest scoring seasons by OHL players under-18. Marner is ranked 12th, Strome 20th.

It's amazing those 2 were able to outscore guys like Stamkos/Hall/Seguin, and by quite a wide margin. Sure, linemates played a part but it can't tell the whole story.

What is even more impressive is that Brian Wilks didn't put up those numbers to be at #3.  That was a year in the Metro Toronto Hockey League.

Whew, okay, so there's a reason why I'd never heard of that scoring phenom Brian Wilks...

Yeah, I was having a hard time figuring it out.  They confused the Toronto Marlboros of the MTHL with the OHL team that later became the Hamilton Dukes and finally the Guelph Storm.  Brian Wilks played for the Kitchener Rangers and was still a decent OHL player who made no impact in the NHL.