2015 NHL Entry Draft

[L K]

When did people think there wasn't a steep dropoff after Eichel?  He and McD were always spoken of in different terms than the rest.

Anyway I haven't read or seem anything that leads me to disagree with Hobarth's stance on Hanifin. I think now he's the choice if he's available even if AZ were to pick Marner.

There was a perceived consensus top 5 at one point, so I think that it's more of a comment that Strome and Hannafin have dropped in value vs. the others in the top 10 appreciating.

Is it necessarily accurate however.  I mean, what have Strome/Hanifin/Marner really done in the last two months to harm their value that wasn't causing that to happen in April?

 

[Frank E]

When did people think there wasn't a steep dropoff after Eichel?  He and McD were always spoken of in different terms than the rest.

Anyway I haven't read or seem anything that leads me to disagree with Hobarth's stance on Hanifin. I think now he's the choice if he's available even if AZ were to pick Marner.

There was a perceived consensus top 5 at one point, so I think that it's more of a comment that Strome and Hannafin have dropped in value vs. the others in the top 10 appreciating.

Is it necessarily accurate however.  I mean, what have Strome/Hanifin/Marner really done in the last two months to harm their value that wasn't causing that to happen in April?

It's probably not very accurate, and it could be just us picking apart these players since we've read about them ad nauseam.

 

[L K]

When did people think there wasn't a steep dropoff after Eichel?  He and McD were always spoken of in different terms than the rest.

Anyway I haven't read or seem anything that leads me to disagree with Hobarth's stance on Hanifin. I think now he's the choice if he's available even if AZ were to pick Marner.

There was a perceived consensus top 5 at one point, so I think that it's more of a comment that Strome and Hannafin have dropped in value vs. the others in the top 10 appreciating.

Is it necessarily accurate however.  I mean, what have Strome/Hanifin/Marner really done in the last two months to harm their value that wasn't causing that to happen in April?

It's probably not very accurate, and it could be just us picking apart these players since we've read about them ad nauseam.

That's kind of my take.  Strome wasn't a great skater or dynamic offensive player during the year.  Marner didn't shrink at the end of his season.  And Hanifin didn't stop doing the things that were giving him reasonable comparisons to Ekblad's once he stopped playing hockey. 

I think the gap between 1/2 and 3-5 was always going to be a big one.  We are talking about two  players in the Ovechkin/Crosby calibre being compared to guys like Kane/Kessel/MacKinnon territory and to me that is a gap that was always going to be there.    That doesn't diminish the calibre of players that Marner/Hanifin/Strome are going to become.

 

[Kin]

Is it necessarily accurate however.  I mean, what have Strome/Hanifin/Marner really done in the last two months to harm their value that wasn't causing that to happen in April?

Nothing but as I said elsewhere I think a lot of scouting takes place after a season ends. I think teams put their heads together and rather than just relying on a scout and how many times he's seen a player in person, head scouts and front office guys watch a lot of tape an come to their own conclusions. Someone like Ken Holland probably isn't watching a ton of OHL games during the season but will start to review things once he has time on his hands.

So I don't think it's about Marner or anyone falling off. I just think it's the application of more and senior eyeballs.

 

[Kin]

I think the gap between 1/2 and 3-5 was always going to be a big one.  We are talking about two  players in the Ovechkin/Crosby calibre being compared to guys like Kane/Kessel/MacKinnon territory and to me that is a gap that was always going to be there.    That doesn't diminish the calibre of players that Marner/Hanifin/Strome are going to become.

Again, steeper. Yes there was always an acknowledged drop-off. But I think now that drop-off is steeper than originally thought. I say in the post I could be wrong but that's my read of things. I don't think these guys are as well regarded as someone like Kane or Mackinnon was right now.

 

[LuncheonMeat]

When did people think there wasn't a steep dropoff after Eichel?  He and McD were always spoken of in different terms than the rest.

Never. Hence "steeper" rather than "steep". I think there was a perception among some that, and again I specifically reference it in the post in question, that the guys who were candidates for the #3 pick would have constituted a fair, if a little weak, top of a draft class in a normal year. Now I don't know if that's the case.

Maybe there's something to the Leafs being interested in Provorov?  Rather than seeing a clear standout at #3, whether it's Hanafin, Strome, whomever, perhaps they see a group of 6-8 very good players that are fairly similar in talent/potential/whatever.  The usual suspects, but also guys like Barzal, Zacha and Crouse.

I don't see the games, so I'm not sure how much separation there is, if any, between the potential #3 group (Marner, Hanafin, Strome), and the rest of the top 10. LK?

 

[L K]

I think the gap between 1/2 and 3-5 was always going to be a big one.  We are talking about two  players in the Ovechkin/Crosby calibre being compared to guys like Kane/Kessel/MacKinnon territory and to me that is a gap that was always going to be there.    That doesn't diminish the calibre of players that Marner/Hanifin/Strome are going to become.

Again, steeper. Yes there was always an acknowledged drop-off. But I think now that drop-off is steeper than originally thought. I say in the post I could be wrong but that's my read of things. I don't think these guys are as well regarded as someone like Kane or Mackinnon was right now.

See I think that's just a factor of having guys like McDavid at the top.  If you had a guy making Kane look average in comparison in his draft year I think the same thing happens. 

 

[Kin]

See I think that's just a factor of having guys like McDavid at the top.  If you had a guy making Kane look average in comparison in his draft year I think the same thing happens.

But, again, I'm comparing this to the impressions I was getting earlier in the year where we still knew that McDavid was going to be at the top. I'm talking about a change in perception this year from one point in time to another.

 

[rdowdall]

Is it necessarily accurate however.  I mean, what have Strome/Hanifin/Marner really done in the last two months to harm their value that wasn't causing that to happen in April?

Nothing but as I said elsewhere I think a lot of scouting takes place after a season ends. I think teams put their heads together and rather than just relying on a scout and how many times he's seen a player in person, head scouts and front office guys watch a lot of tape an come to their own conclusions. Someone like Ken Holland probably isn't watching a ton of OHL games during the season but will start to review things once he has time on his hands.

So I don't think it's about Marner or anyone falling off. I just think it's the application of more and senior eyeballs.

Someone once brought up the point that at the start of the year, everyone looks at what these guys can do.  And near the end of the year, it becomes more about what they can't do, so that starts to heap on some negativity. 

We saw it a bit in the Tavares year.  He was the clear cut #1 for so long, and then there were whispers about Hedman being the #1 pick.  He had been in the limelight for so long that people started to focus on his faults, like his skating.  I also think that some of it is to generate interest in the draft.  If the top 10 picks were all locks then it wouldn't be all that fun to watch.

 

[hobarth]

There's like 2 drafts going on 1 involves McDavid and Eichel, they're franchise players and then there's the rest who until Button rated them, it was Hanifin at the top, until Button came along there wasn't any doubt. How can you argue with a player who is now 6'5", 200 plus lbs, skates like he's 5'10", defends like Lidstrom with a very high potential offensive game that was becoming more evident as the year went on and he was becoming his team's go to d-man at 17 in university against men. This guy has no weaknesses unlike Strome or Marner or Provorov and he plays mean when he needs to.

Until Button came along it was the franchises, Hanifin and Crouse and Crouse hasn't done anything to cause his sudden perceived decline in the ratings much like Forsberg hadn't in his draft year or Jones in his draft year. Hanifin has actually improved since the beginning of the year but he's never probably going to finish in the top 10 in scoring so his sex appeal has dropped but his level of play, character, what have you has only gotten better. He's not a flash in the pan 1 year wonder like Strome or Marner may be, he's rock steady excellent with even more room to grow.

I think it's very telling that someone of Connor Brown's modest skill set was able to win the OHL scoring title and even more telling that another of McDavid's team mates was able to win the race the next year so Strome is someone I'd want to see succeed on his own without McDavid. I know Strome did great for a brief period without McDavid but that's just a brief period, I want to know more and pokey skating doesn't cut it for me.

TO needs a #1 center and if it isn't Strome then maybe Marner, if I'm a junior coach with a player who's potential is Giroux like as a center then I'd move heaven and earth to make sure he plays as a center, yet he spent most of the year at RW, why I wonder?

I think great teams are composed of great d-men, great centers and great goalies, to me Hanifin fits into the great d-man possible category, TO is still d-man deficient and in my mind nothing from his past or present has ever deviated from what should be a HOF career.

Next year the projected rating for the top 10 draft choices includes 5 centers, 1 of which has actually out performed Eichel at the same age so picking anyone but Hanifin is senseless to me, of course, if he's available.

I have a hard time believing that Arizona won't jump on Hanifin but I guess I can understand that they feel with OEL and the boys they have enough quality to prosper and that might be right because OEL is that good. Is Rielly that good, I don't know, I actually thought Percy outplayed Rielly while he was with the Leafs and I don't think Percy is TO's next OEL, TO needs an OEL or even better 2 of them. TO doesn't need more Kadris or more wingers.

 

[Rebel_1812]

So the draft is the 26th of june?

 

[KGB]

I was just thinking about the whole timing issue with respect to roster building a contender...all things remaining constant, wouldn't it make more sense to be drafting defensemen first since it takes a few years longer for them to develop (typically)?

After reading hobarth's post(s), I tend to agree.  I think it's pretty much a lock that we'll stink next year and will have another high pick.  If we can get a center next year, then it makes sense to go with Hanifin this year, provided he's available. 

Think back to those teams of the late 90's, early 00's.  We had top flight goaltending, a deep forward corps, a number one center, and offense from the blue line.  What were we missing?  That number one, two-way, minute eating d-man.  It's why we all dreamed of Rob Blake at each trade deadline and rued the draft pick that could have been Scott Niedermayer.  It sounds like Hanifin's the closest thing to that pick in this draft. 

 

[Andy007]

So the draft is the 26th of june?

The 1st round is. Starts at 7 pm. Leafs will be picking either a furnace or a snowmobile.

 

[hockeyfan1]

It wouldn't be so surprising if the Leafs take Hanifin should the 'Yotes pass over.  Not that it would be a poor choice, it wouldn't (as some posters here have outlined), but, somehow, I still believe the Leafs to take Marner.

 

[hockeyfan1]

So the draft is the 26th of june?

The 1st round is. Starts at 7 pm. Leafs will be picking either a furnace or a snowmobile.

How about jet skies?  ;D

 

[Jolly good show chaps]

So the draft is the 26th of june?

The 1st round is. Starts at 7 pm. Leafs will be picking either a furnace or a snowmobile.

Assume our first pick will be around 7.30-40pm, right?

 

[MetalRaven]

Im concerned we don't have a GM to oversee the trades of our current roster for the building blocks we are trying to get at this draft. Maybe im overvaluing the importance of the upcoming draft but isn't this where we try to get maximum building blocks out of our current set of players?

Im not concerned we are going to get raked over the coals or anything, I'd just be far more comfortable knowing we had a GM that could squeeze every last drop of lemon juice for my new lemonade.

 

[Bullfrog]

There's like 2 drafts going on 1 involves McDavid and Eichel, they're franchise players and then there's the rest who until Button rated them, it was Hanifin at the top, until Button came along there wasn't any doubt. How can you argue with a player who is now 6'5", 200 plus lbs, skates like he's 5'10", defends like Lidstrom with a very high potential offensive game that was becoming more evident as the year went on and he was becoming his team's go to d-man at 17 in university against men. This guy has no weaknesses unlike Strome or Marner or Provorov and he plays mean when he needs to.
...

Where did you read he's 6'-5" now? All I can find is 6'-3 or 6'-2.

 

[hobarth]

There's like 2 drafts going on 1 involves McDavid and Eichel, they're franchise players and then there's the rest who until Button rated them, it was Hanifin at the top, until Button came along there wasn't any doubt. How can you argue with a player who is now 6'5", 200 plus lbs, skates like he's 5'10", defends like Lidstrom with a very high potential offensive game that was becoming more evident as the year went on and he was becoming his team's go to d-man at 17 in university against men. This guy has no weaknesses unlike Strome or Marner or Provorov and he plays mean when he needs to.
...

Where did you read he's 6'-5" now? All I can find is 6'-3 or 6'-2.

I was wondering when this would be brought up but it was mentioned by the panel during Hockey Central that he was 6'5" while talking to Hanifin and he didn't correct them so I can only assume it's right. Maybe this was something that came out of the combine?

 

[CarltonTheBear]

defends like Lidstrom with a very high potential offensive game

So basically, he's Bobby Orr. At least we're being realistic here.