2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs General Discussion

[CarltonTheBear]

I heard this name before but I'm doubting CBJ trade him.

They'd be trading from a position of strength to shore up a weakness. Columbus has the 3rd best GA/GP this season, 8th worst GF/GP. Savard's 29 years old and has 1 year left on his current deal. Kappy and Johnsson are both (much) younger, have 2 years of extra control (Johnsson has 2 extra years on his contract, Kappy 1 plus an RFA year), and would be top-6 forwards with Columbus replacing some of the offence they lost last summer. A deal revolving around one of them for Savard makes a lot of sense for both teams I think.

 

[Guilt Trip]

I heard this name before but I'm doubting CBJ trade him.

They'd be trading from a position of strength to shore up a weakness. Columbus has the 3rd best GA/GP this season, 8th worst GF/GP. Savard's 29 years old and has 1 year left on his current deal. Kappy and Johnsson are both (much) younger, have 2 years of extra control (Johnsson has 2 extra years on his contract, Kappy 1 plus an RFA year), and would be top-6 forwards with Columbus replacing some of the offence they lost last summer. A deal revolving around one of them for Savard makes a lot of sense for both teams I think.

I see your point. Makes sense. Maybe it could work. Savard is having a down year for points.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I suppose there's something to the idea that the gap between "contending" and where they are right now isn't as big in the Pacific but I tend to think, and I have nothing empirical to support this, that teams like Anaheim in less noisy markets but where they can attract free agents with weather/whatever can be a little more ruthless in moving on from guys than a Canadian market where trading someone like Manson would lead to various acts of whatever the Winnipeg version of seppuku is.

If Anaheim thinks they can move Manson and replace him with a free agent then yeah that's another story. I just don't see them moving him as part of a rebuild. Since you brought up the market factor I'm not sure Anaheim's owners would be too excited about missing the playoffs for 3-5 years or so, and they're about to for the second straight season now.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Dumba is youngish(25) and signed for 3 more at 6 mill. Is he a significant upgrade on Barrie and can we sign Barrie for 6 mill? Don't think Dumba is that close to Barrie for offence.

I think they have similar strengths and weaknesses. Really a very basic scouting report of both would be the same: good at moving the puck in all 3 zones, puts up points, will get criticized for their defensive play. I think it's too tough to say for sure whether one would be an upgrade over the other. But the fact that Dumba's having a very bad season right now doesn't help his case. So even if Barrie costs an extra $0.5mil or something to re-sign, is Dumba's contract and age worth giving up Kapanen or Johnsson?

Or maybe more importantly: is spending a significant chunk of cap space on either of them really what the team should be doing?

 

[herman]

https://twitter.com/draglikepull/status/1220738521201369092

The caveat is this is the Minnesota system, but that?s basically the opposite effect you want to see in a defenseman, let alone an offensive defenseman.

 

[hockeyfan1]

Here?s another look:

ye
    @FreeNylander
Replying to @draglikepull
What?s the difference between the heat maps and these charts? On these things by all accounts Dumba is effective at the things the Leafs are awful at, especially his breakups.

 

[Guilt Trip]

Dumba is youngish(25) and signed for 3 more at 6 mill. Is he a significant upgrade on Barrie and can we sign Barrie for 6 mill? Don't think Dumba is that close to Barrie for offence.

I think they have similar strengths and weaknesses. Really a very basic scouting report of both would be the same: good at moving the puck in all 3 zones, puts up points, will get criticized for their defensive play. I think it's too tough to say for sure whether one would be an upgrade over the other. But the fact that Dumba's having a very bad season right now doesn't help his case. So even if Barrie costs an extra $0.5mil or something to re-sign, is Dumba's contract and age worth giving up Kapanen or Johnsson?

Or maybe more importantly: is spending a significant chunk of cap space on either of them really what the team should be doing?

I'm not sure what to do at this point. I think we need another Muzz type guy in the top 4. I wouldn't be trading Johnsson or Kappy unless it's the right return though. I guess we're going to find out what Dubas thinks pretty soon.

 

[herman]

https://twitter.com/mapleleafs/status/1221530654078226432
6?3? left shot centre/winger
Spent 2018-19 with Nashville?s AHL team, and was a member of Dubas and Keefe?s Greyhounds (was on the Lumberkings with Keefe prior as well).

 

[CarltonTheBear]

They spelled Agostino wrong again.

 

[ZBBM]

Who?

And is that Nylander's #88 I see?  Hmmmmm

 

[AvroArrow]

58

 

[Deebo]

Who?

And is that Nylander's #88 I see?  Hmmmmm

It's 58

 

[ZBBM]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjYoNL4g5Vg

 

[Highlander]

I thought he looked alright at camp, has some skill. Supposedly in the last Marlies report that I read last week, he was not rated that high.  However Keefe knows him better than I do.

 

[hockeyfan1]

Some trade ideas/possibilities (and why they don?t all make sense):

D Matt Dumba & fourth-round pick (2021) from Minnesota to the Leafs for Nylander.

Exec: ?Toronto says no. Good rule of thumb for people making these proposals: If you?re throwing a 2021 fourth-round pick into the deal, it?s because you aren?t offering anywhere near enough, and you know it. That 2021 fourth isn?t going to change that.

G Alexandar Georgiev plus a third-round pick from the Rangers to the Leafs for Kapanen & a second-round pick.

Exec: ?Toronto says no. I don?t know why people think the Rangers are going to get a massive windfall for Georgiev. He has mediocre numbers, a mediocre record, and having three goalies erodes any leverage they have.?

D Brett Pesce from Carolina to the Leafs for Nylander.

Exec: ?I think Nylander is worth more than Brett Pesce. But the contract might even that one out a bit. Leafs need cap space. That gives them a good defenseman and saves them $3 million. Who would say no? The Leafs would say no, they would want a better defenseman even it cost them a little more money.?

D Adam Larson plus a third-round pick (2021) from the Oilers to the Leafs for Andreas Johnsson & Bracco.

Exec: ?Either team could say no. It?s not an unreasonable ask. It would come down to what they think of Bracco.... it?s a pretty fair deal. Larsson for one of their wingers. I like Johnsson. I think he?d be a good fit for Edmonton. They might prefer to get Kapanen.?

https://theathletic.com/1560427/2020/01/28/who-says-no-nhl-executives-evaluate-your-trade-proposals/

 

[Bender]

Some trade ideas/possibilities (and why they don?t all make sense):

D Matt Dumba & fourth-round pick (2021) from Minnesota to the Leafs for Nylander.

Exec: ?Toronto says no. Good rule of thumb for people making these proposals: If you?re throwing a 2021 fourth-round pick into the deal, it?s because you aren?t offering anywhere near enough, and you know it. That 2021 fourth isn?t going to change that.

G Alexandar Georgiev plus a third-round pick from the Rangers to the Leafs for Kapanen & a second-round pick.

Exec: ?Toronto says no. I don?t know why people think the Rangers are going to get a massive windfall for Georgiev. He has mediocre numbers, a mediocre record, and having three goalies erodes any leverage they have.?

D Brett Pesce from Carolina to the Leafs for Nylander.

Exec: ?I think Nylander is worth more than Brett Pesce. But the contract might even that one out a bit. Leafs need cap space. That gives them a good defenseman and saves them $3 million. Who would say no? The Leafs would say no, they would want a better defenseman even it cost them a little more money.?

D Adam Larson plus a third-round pick (2021) from the Oilers to the Leafs for Andreas Johnsson & Bracco.

Exec: ?Either team could say no. It?s not an unreasonable ask. It would come down to what they think of Bracco.... it?s a pretty fair deal. Larsson for one of their wingers. I like Johnsson. I think he?d be a good fit for Edmonton. They might prefer to get Kapanen.?

https://theathletic.com/1560427/2020/01/28/who-says-no-nhl-executives-evaluate-your-trade-proposals/

I don't like any of these. MAYBE Larsson but why isn't it a 1-1 trade for Johnsson? The rest are basically insane. Nylander has become one of the best bargain deals in the league (obviously Pastrnak doesn't count).

 

[rdowdall]

I don't like any of these. MAYBE Larsson but why isn't it a 1-1 trade for Johnsson? The rest are basically insane. Nylander has become one of the best bargain deals in the league (obviously Pastrnak doesn't count).

Yeah Nylander has come out of nowhere.  I'm really shocked that nobody saw this coming.

 

[Bullfrog]

My love for Nylander is at hermanesque proportions, but I don't think we need to exaggerate. Nylander's not a great bargain. He's on pace for a 70+ point season, which is great, but he's getting paid $7M/year. I'd expect that kind of production (or at least high 60s) for $7M.

His contract is what I always thought it was: a good deal for both team and player. It was the RIGHT contract.

 

[bustaheims]

The Georgiev deal is nuts. The Rangers get a top 6 forward AND upgrade their draft pick? Has no one been paying attention to goalie trades?

 

[CarltonTheBear]

My love for Nylander is at hermanesque proportions, but I don't think we need to exaggerate. Nylander's not a great bargain. He's on pace for a 70+ point season, which is great, but he's getting paid $7M/year. I'd expect that kind of production (or at least high 60s) for $7M.

His contract is what I always thought it was: a good deal for both team and player. It was the RIGHT contract.

This is admittedly a very basic way of looking at it but Nylander has the 44th highest AAV among forwards this season. In scoring he's 27th among forwards in points and 12th in goals.

Saying he's one of the best bargains in the league is maybe pushing it, but I think he's definitely outperforming his contract this season.