2020-2021 Toronto Maple Leafs General Discussion

[ZBBM]

Muzzin-Holl
Rielly-Brodie
Lehtonen-Dermott (RFA)
Bogosian, Sandin, Liljegren, Marincin

I don't think they're spending $1M on Bogosian to rotate in and out of the press box.

I look at that group and having Holl as a top 4 sticks out like a sore thumb.  I get the need for a RHD but it makes no sense (other than cap management, granted) to keep Sandin and even Liljegren in the minors for another year.

Muzzin-Dermott
Rielly-Brodie
Sandin-Bogosian/Lehtonen
Holl / Liljegren / Marincin

If Dermott goes then maybe you try Lehtonen up there?

 

[Kin]

If you're not paying Bogosian 1 million to sit in the press box you're not paying Holl 2 million to be there instead. You'd rather have the money.

 

[princedpw]

I thought most of the numbers suggested that Sandin and Liljegren just weren?t very effective last year, whereas Dermott was...

 

[Bender]

https://twitter.com/friedgehnic/status/1315014105103773697
He doesn?t have much of a case to balloon this number

I mean he scored at a 48-point pace last season. Only having 39 NHL games under his belt is the counter argument but this could be an interesting decision.

Yeah but a 40 game pace could literally be a statistical abberation.

 

[Kin]

I thought most of the numbers suggested that Sandin and Liljegren just weren?t very effective last year, whereas Dermott was...

Right but they're young prospects. I think any line-up projection with them involved assumes growth.

 

[ZBBM]

If you're not paying Bogosian 1 million to sit in the press box you're not paying Holl 2 million to be there instead. You'd rather have the money.

So Holl is cemented on the top/2nd pairing because of his contract?  I think Dermott would be a better choice to keep, and would come cheaper. 

 

[CarltonTheBear]

If you're not paying Bogosian 1 million to sit in the press box you're not paying Holl 2 million to be there instead. You'd rather have the money.

So Holl is cemented on the top/2nd pairing because of his contract?  I think Dermott would be a better choice to keep, and would come cheaper. 

He's cemented on the top/2nd pairing because he has proven chemistry with Muzzin in a shutdown role. Putting Bogosian in that spot gives him much tougher minutes than he can handle. Putting Dermott in that spot would be a risk because he yet to show he can step up in those top-4 minutes. Putting Brodie in that spot just leaves Rielly playing with a less than ideal partner too. I really don't get why Holl's spot is being questioned, nobody on the team right now can fill his role.

 

[Kin]

So Holl is cemented on the top/2nd pairing because of his contract?

No? Maybe you missed me saying "you'd rather have the money" but if the team thinks Holl shouldn't be in the top 6 it doesn't make sense to keep him around for press box duty. If that happens, which seems unlikely as I think he works well with Muzzin, you'd almost certainly be better off trading him and having some extra cap room.

 

[herman]

It looks the AHL probably isn?t an option this coming season.

Sandin and Liljegren getting loaned to SHL or being part of an inflated roster taxi squad seems to be what the front office is gearing up for.

 

[Frank E]

Yeah, I think maybe they'd best make a Plan B for Mikheyev's spot.  The fact that he's even going this route would suggest to me that money is kind of a big deal here, since he's unlikely to see a big difference from his QO. 

I think we may have seen the last of Mikheyev. 

This seems like a big overreaction to a pretty standard RFA move.

What's the overreaction?  I'm just thinking that if money is a thing, which filing for arbitration suggests, then maybe he just goes the route of the KHL.  Also, the Leafs didn't have cap room to afford a substantial raise, at least they didn't at the point I wrote that comment.

Now that Johnsson has been moved, which Dubas told us the other day didn't need to happen (it looks like it sure did need to), they've got a little more flexibility to fit Mikheyev in at around $1m or so.

 

[Frank E]

I feel like Dubas is reacting to our collective thoughts here.

We felt like there was still a cap problem >  Johnsson traded complete cap dump

We felt like there was still a hole on the bottom of RD even after Brodie signed > sign Bogosian

Now, I think they need Jumbo in at 4th line... Go Dubas.

 

[Guilt Trip]

Yeah, I think maybe they'd best make a Plan B for Mikheyev's spot.  The fact that he's even going this route would suggest to me that money is kind of a big deal here, since he's unlikely to see a big difference from his QO. 

I think we may have seen the last of Mikheyev. 

This seems like a big overreaction to a pretty standard RFA move.

What's the overreaction?  I'm just thinking that if money is a thing, which filing for arbitration suggests, then maybe he just goes the route of the KHL.  Also, the Leafs didn't have cap room to afford a substantial raise, at least they didn't at the point I wrote that comment.

Now that Johnsson has been moved, which Dubas told us the other day didn't need to happen (it looks like it sure did need to), they've got a little more flexibility to fit Mikheyev in at around $1m or so.

I don't recall Dubas saying he wouldn't trade Johnsson. I remember him saying significant piece or something to that effect. Robertson made AJ expandable and so did AJ and his 8 goals last year. He had a horrible year and didn't justify his 3 mill contract.

 

[herman]

https://twitter.com/kyle_cush/status/1315270313693851649

 

[L K]

Yegor Korshkov - 11P (5G 6A) in 12 games in the KHL for Lokomotiv

 

[Kin]

So, ignoring the cap for a moment and assuming Dermott and Mikheyev sign, this is sort of how I see the roster right now(ignoring the specifics of the lines somewhat):

Robertson*-Matthews-Nylander
Hyman-Tavares-Marner
Simmonds-Kerfoot-Mikheyev
Barabanov*-Engvall-Spezza
Anderson*, Boyd*

Rielly-Brodie
Muzzin-Holl
Dermott-Bogosian
Lehtonen*

Andersen
Campbell

The * indicates, I think, the places where roster spots are uncertain and could be won by someone, Malgin or one of the young defensemen, showing a lot in camp.

But that said I think there are three outstanding issues other than the ever present uncertainty of goaltending

1. I think, ideally, you'd want a better #3 centre.

2. Obviously, if we had a magic genie, Brodie would be replaced by a Norris or near Norris type defenseman.

3. I'd like to see more of the bottom 6 be young players with potential instead of veterans and imports with limited upside.

But aside from that? I think it's a pretty good team moving forward.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Seems about right. I'd suspect the left side goes more like Hyman-Mikheyev-Robertson but like you said lines aren't a crucial detail to look at right now.

I suspect Engvall won't be on the roster, one way or another. They could shop him before the season starts but if there aren't any takers he's still waiver exempt for another 15 NHL games (or starting in the 21/22 season). If he got sent to the Marlies he'd still count against the cap for $175k but that might be the difference between being able to carry a 13th forward. I was fine with his deal at the time but the flat cap has made it a bit troublesome.

 

[Bullfrog]

I'm higher on Dermott than most on this site. At this point though, I have to imagine he's pretty nervous. I'm pretty confident that Lehtonen is a lock for a roster spot, so where does that leave Dermott and Bogosian? I think both of them are also locks for a full time spot. Something's got to give.

Rielly-Brodie
Muzzin-Dermott*
Lehtonen*-Bogosian

is actually more what I'd like to see (you could swap the *s).

On another topic; I guess I'm not totally seeing Mikheyev the way everyone else is. I find the talk about $1M or sub $1M crazy. I'd throw $2M at him. I think he's got all the tools to be a good 2nd line winger. To clarify; as a GM, i'd obviously try to get him as low as possible, but I think he's worth much more. I think he easily replaces Johnsson.

 

[Kin]

On another topic; I guess I'm not totally seeing Mikheyev the way everyone else is. I find the talk about $1M or sub $1M crazy. I'd throw $2M at him. I think he's got all the tools to be a good 2nd line winger. To clarify; as a GM, i'd obviously try to get him as low as possible, but I think he's worth much more. I think he easily replaces Johnsson.

I'm just not sure how that all works out cap wise if you're giving Mikheyev 2 million and still need Dermott signed.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

2. Obviously, if we had a magic genie, Brodie would be replaced by a Norris or near Norris type defenseman.

Brodie's certainly not that Norris or even near Norris type but I wonder if finally having a partner of his caliber could get Rielly at least somewhat into that conversation again. He was close-ish in 18/19, finishing 5th and within striking distance of 3rd. We definitely need him playing more like that as opposed to how he did last season.

 

[Guilt Trip]

I'm higher on Dermott than most on this site. At this point though, I have to imagine he's pretty nervous. I'm pretty confident that Lehtonen is a lock for a roster spot, so where does that leave Dermott and Bogosian? I think both of them are also locks for a full time spot. Something's got to give.

Rielly-Brodie
Muzzin-Dermott*
Lehtonen*-Bogosian

is actually more what I'd like to see (you could swap the *s).

On another topic; I guess I'm not totally seeing Mikheyev the way everyone else is. I find the talk about $1M or sub $1M crazy. I'd throw $2M at him. I think he's got all the tools to be a good 2nd line winger. To clarify; as a GM, i'd obviously try to get him as low as possible, but I think he's worth much more. I think he easily replaces Johnsson.

Dermott is better then Holl on his own side as a 3rd pairing guy. As a 2nd pairing on his off side, he's not. Dubas can't throw 2 mill at Mikheyev. 1-1.25 max, and that's stretching it, for 2 years.