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2023-24 Toronto Maple Leafs General Discussion

herman said:
For Tavares, I kind of look to the Jason Spezza model. Made hay in his day, came home to try to win the big one at long last, and took a big time hair cut after he turned 36 to do it (7.5M down to 700k). Tavares is approximately 35 when this current deal ends and will be subject to 35+ contract rules. His career earnings are already higher than Spezza's (although time-value might introduce some nuance there).

I would not be surprised to see him get a 1yr league min in perpetuity, and I'd be happy to see him get 3x4M AAV as a 3C or savvy grinding LW. He gets to call his own shot here, but I highly doubt he'll try to rake the Leafs for a Kopitar level deal given that he already turned town 13M from San Jose.

Aside from that one overlap year, at worst it'll be like Nylander and Tavares swapping deals with the benefit of the rising cap.

If Tavares takes league minimum on his next deal I'd be as happy as anybody, but I think we need to be a little realistic here. Spezza took a league minimum deal with the Leafs after back-to-back 8 goal, 26-27 point seasons in a mostly 3rd/4th line role. Tavares had 80 points last season and is on pace for close to that again. There's really no comparison to be made between the two.

Even Patrice Bergeron, Mr. Professional, Mr. Ultimate Teammate, Mr. Captain, Mr. Selfless, needed $5mil to keep him playing after his long-term deal expired in Boston.
 
CarltonTheBear said:
herman said:
For Tavares, I kind of look to the Jason Spezza model. Made hay in his day, came home to try to win the big one at long last, and took a big time hair cut after he turned 36 to do it (7.5M down to 700k). Tavares is approximately 35 when this current deal ends and will be subject to 35+ contract rules. His career earnings are already higher than Spezza's (although time-value might introduce some nuance there).

I would not be surprised to see him get a 1yr league min in perpetuity, and I'd be happy to see him get 3x4M AAV as a 3C or savvy grinding LW. He gets to call his own shot here, but I highly doubt he'll try to rake the Leafs for a Kopitar level deal given that he already turned town 13M from San Jose.

Aside from that one overlap year, at worst it'll be like Nylander and Tavares swapping deals with the benefit of the rising cap.

If Tavares takes league minimum on his next deal I'd be as happy as anybody, but I think we need to be a little realistic here. Spezza took a league minimum deal with the Leafs after back-to-back 8 goal, 26-27 point seasons in a mostly 3rd/4th line role. Tavares had 80 points last season and is on pace for close to that again. There's really no comparison to be made between the two.

Even Patrice Bergeron, Mr. Professional, Mr. Ultimate Teammate, Mr. Captain, Mr. Selfless, needed $5mil to keep him playing after his long-term deal expired in Boston.

Let's have another stab at this one year from now.

 
Tavares at league minimum seems like a huge stretch.  Hometown discount, sure.  But I don't see him falling off a cliff like Spezza did in his 34 and 35 years to have to scrounge for that type of deal.

Anything between $5 and $7 million and I'll be happy.  He's been a good soldier for the team, he's been more than fine as captain, and he's an overall good guy.

I like the fact that most of the conversation revolves around him coming back, than hoping to see him ride out his contract and say sayonara.  I think there will definitely be a role and room on the team for him.  But as we all agree, certainly nowhere close to what he is getting now.
 
CarltonTheBear said:
Even Patrice Bergeron, Mr. Professional, Mr. Ultimate Teammate, Mr. Captain, Mr. Selfless, needed $5mil to keep him playing after his long-term deal expired in Boston.

I love this quote, and I love you.
 
Tired of listening to these panelists. I understand Willy is having a great year but how can you compare him to Pastrnak's numbers. Other than this year maybe 2021-22 were comparable other than that Pasta's numbers are better and tougher to play against when you're talking grit and toughness. Nylander 141 career hits Pasta 518. Pastrnak has played 628 games Willy 556. Cosentino saying Nylander played out his contract. He was paid handsomely at the time it's just the way it works. He wasn't underpaid. You can say that about a whack of players.
 
https://twitter.com/itsmitchmarney/status/1742897251750412656
Leadership builds you up and pushes you to heights and speeds you didn?t know you could achieve.
 
Did you know: SportsNet (and I'm sure they're not the only ones) hires specifically for people who can take outrageous stances and pontificate about them on camera, even if it's not exactly what they believe/understand (although sometimes it is!)? It's just engagement farming where thousands of hockey fans are boosting or chirping said takes, and SportsNet gets its clicks.

Nick Kypreos, Doug MacLean, Sam Cosentino and the like are there to be dramatic foils for the normies playing it straight to bounce off of. It's pro wrestling 101 behind a broadcast desk.
 
herman said:
Did you know: SportsNet (and I'm sure they're not the only ones) hires specifically for people who can take outrageous stances and pontificate about them on camera, even if it's not exactly what they believe/understand (although sometimes it is!)? It's just engagement farming where thousands of hockey fans are boosting or chirping said takes, and SportsNet gets its clicks.

Nick Kypreos, Doug MacLean, Sam Cosentino and the like are there to be dramatic foils for the normies playing it straight to bounce off of. It's pro wrestling 101 behind a broadcast desk.

Cox and Simmons did the same in print industry.
 
If everyone agreed on the common sense, rational ideas all the time things get boring. It's why we keep Frank around.
 
herman said:
Did you know: SportsNet (and I'm sure they're not the only ones) hires specifically for people who can take outrageous stances and pontificate about them on camera, even if it's not exactly what they believe/understand (although sometimes it is!)? It's just engagement farming where thousands of hockey fans are boosting or chirping said takes, and SportsNet gets its clicks.

Nick Kypreos, Doug MacLean, Sam Cosentino and the like are there to be dramatic foils for the normies playing it straight to bounce off of. It's pro wrestling 101 behind a broadcast desk.

I was waiting for Jennifer Botterill to put Jamal Mayers in a figure four leg lock last night. 
 
Frank E said:
herman said:
Did you know: SportsNet (and I'm sure they're not the only ones) hires specifically for people who can take outrageous stances and pontificate about them on camera, even if it's not exactly what they believe/understand (although sometimes it is!)? It's just engagement farming where thousands of hockey fans are boosting or chirping said takes, and SportsNet gets its clicks.

Nick Kypreos, Doug MacLean, Sam Cosentino and the like are there to be dramatic foils for the normies playing it straight to bounce off of. It's pro wrestling 101 behind a broadcast desk.

Cox and Simmons did the same in print industry.

They are the same type, yes. Print is a bit different in that it's a one-way discourse and there is an element of the editors trying to steer the narrative. It's not unusual to see fans of the print generation parroting their favoured columnists' opinions.
 
herman said:
Frank E said:
herman said:
Did you know: SportsNet (and I'm sure they're not the only ones) hires specifically for people who can take outrageous stances and pontificate about them on camera, even if it's not exactly what they believe/understand (although sometimes it is!)? It's just engagement farming where thousands of hockey fans are boosting or chirping said takes, and SportsNet gets its clicks.

Nick Kypreos, Doug MacLean, Sam Cosentino and the like are there to be dramatic foils for the normies playing it straight to bounce off of. It's pro wrestling 101 behind a broadcast desk.

Cox and Simmons did the same in print industry.

They are the same type, yes. Print is a bit different in that it's a one-way discourse and there is an element of the editors trying to steer the narrative. It's not unusual to see fans of the print generation parroting their favoured columnists' opinions.

Indeed, but what I didn't properly articulate there is that those guys' columns sold a lot of newspapers.

It was all about dollars, not well thought out opion pieces.
 
As someone who previously wanted to explore trading him for a big time upgrade, I?m rather glad he stuck around (long term).

https://twitter.com/jonassiegel/status/1743308710863086053

They gathered in October at Nick & Sam?s, a high-end steakhouse in Dallas that serves up fried lobster, 48-ounce porterhouses and a steak named after Dallas Mavericks star, Luka Don?i?.

Each year, Morgan Rielly treats members of the Maple Leafs? medical and equipment staff to dinner. The trainers? dinner is a small gesture of thanks from Rielly, the Leafs? longest-serving player, to the behind-the-scenes people who make the team go.

?I almost don?t want to make a big deal out of it,? Rielly said when I first asked him about the tradition recently, which began a number of years back. ?It started because there was a person before that used to do that.?

That would be Dion Phaneuf, the former Leafs captain who took Rielly under his wing when Rielly?s career with the team began way back in 2013.
 
herman said:
As someone who previously wanted to explore trading him for a big time upgrade, I?m rather glad he stuck around (long term).

https://twitter.com/jonassiegel/status/1743308710863086053

They gathered in October at Nick & Sam?s, a high-end steakhouse in Dallas that serves up fried lobster, 48-ounce porterhouses and a steak named after Dallas Mavericks star, Luka Don?i?.

Each year, Morgan Rielly treats members of the Maple Leafs? medical and equipment staff to dinner. The trainers? dinner is a small gesture of thanks from Rielly, the Leafs? longest-serving player, to the behind-the-scenes people who make the team go.

?I almost don?t want to make a big deal out of it,? Rielly said when I first asked him about the tradition recently, which began a number of years back. ?It started because there was a person before that used to do that.?

That would be Dion Phaneuf, the former Leafs captain who took Rielly under his wing when Rielly?s career with the team began way back in 2013.
Dion according to many was an awesome captain and it sure looks that way.
 
herman said:
Did you know: SportsNet (and I'm sure they're not the only ones) hires specifically for people who can take outrageous stances and pontificate about them on camera, even if it's not exactly what they believe/understand (although sometimes it is!)? It's just engagement farming where thousands of hockey fans are boosting or chirping said takes, and SportsNet gets its clicks.

Nick Kypreos, Doug MacLean, Sam Cosentino and the like are there to be dramatic foils for the normies playing it straight to bounce off of. It's pro wrestling 101 behind a broadcast desk.

I know why it's done.  I just wish they would be better at doing it.  Jamal Mayers trying to hit take intent to injure while fumbling his words wasn't entertaining television
 
Latest 32 Thoughts Podcast: this was stupid of me to transcribe by hand lol (so any mistakes are mine; EF is hard to transcribe)
What's going on with William Nylander?
EF: I wrote something today, and nobody disputed it. There's a deal there. There's a deal there and it's ready to get done. And I've had several people tell me, that what they believe, and I believe this information, and if the answer was 'yes, we take the deal', then it can get done very quickly. I don't think that's wrong.

So the Maple Leafs, in the summer, I think they're in the 8s, 9s. The Nylander camp, including the agent, was like that's just not gonna do it. [...] Toronto, they can see that he's earned it; he's done it; he's on pace for career highs in goals, assists, and points; he's playing two minutes more a night than he has previously in his career. The other night against LA he's on the ice protecting the empty netter, we haven't seen him do that a lot. William Nylander has done everything here to earn this new deal. They see it.

I think the other thing here is, the Maple Leafs recognize that because of that, they're going to have to go higher than they wanted to go. And I think that they are prepared to do that, but there's always a limit. And I think that what happens is, that you move into that area, and because it's a negotiation, the group negotiating against you, they always try to squeeze. The Maple Leafs have moved, and they have moved much closer to Nylander's area where he'd hoped to be.

Now there's always a limit, there's always a point where you'll say no, we're not going to do that. And where we have to get to here I believe is the point where the negotiation stops and everybody just realizes they're going as far as they're willing to go, and either everybody says yes, or they don't. And we're not at that point yet.

You know, Toronto wants this done. They stepped this up a little bit before Christmas because they want certainty before the deadline. This not just about re-signing Nylander, this is about how they're going to shape their roster now and for years to come. They don't want to trade their 1st rounder, they don't have a lot of picks, they don't want to trade Cowan, they don't want to trade Minten, they just don't have a lot of assets. And their preference is to trade for people with term. They would rather not do rentals, they'd rather do term or someone they know they can sign.

But in order to do that, you've gotta know, even with the cap going up, what Nylander's numbers going to be; how much room do you have? So I think they've just decided, we're doing this; we're getting it done; we concede; we're in; and we just need to know it's over.

Now there's 4 yeses that have to come here. The Leafs said as long as the number doesn't get to where they won't do it, they're in. Nylander [...], he's very receptive to this. They're in his ballpark. The agent's not talking, but if there was nothing here, the agent would be letting people know there is nothing here. In my history, that's the way it goes.

And then we come to Michael Nylander, the dad. [...] He was a player, he played a long time, he knows the business, he's very much a part of this, everybody knows it. And the entire industry kind of knows him. And I don't say this as a bad thing, but he has a vision of what he sees William's worth as, and he provides that vision. He's very blunt about it. And I think that's kind of what everyone's kind of looking at here: when do all four yeses align? And I think the only danger here, cuz I think everybody wants this done: I think the player wants this done, I think the team wants it done, I think the agent wants it done -- the only danger zone here is: does it ever get to a point where as much as the Leafs have moved, it doesn't get to a space where they can agree and the Leafs just say you know what we can't go there. And I think, and the Leafs are being super careful about this, but I think they feel they've budged a lot, and now Nylander has to budge a little bit too. And if that happens, this is going to get done. From what I understand now, there is no reason that this contract shouldn't happen. I don't believe William Nylander is lying when he says he wants to be in Toronto and no where else. If I didn't believe that I would say we've got a problem, but I do beleive that, and from what I understand here, there's no reason it shouldn't occur.
 

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